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JW's please stay away

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Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
I would love to hear a "reasonable explanation" for letting a child die from the need of a blood transfusion. Far, far, far more lives are saved by blood transfusions than are lost. That is a fact. There is no reason for you to even try to argue the point.

I think we have to ask ourselves, what could be more reasonable then obedience to Gods law? Disobedience? Where does outright disobedience get us?

Regardless of how many people save their lives using blood, the law of God is solidly fixed "you must abstain from blood"

And when we add to this Jesus words
"whoever loses his soul [his life as a creature] for the sake of me and the good news will save it. Really, of what benefit is it for a man to gain the whole world and to forfeit his soul? What, really, would a man give in exchange for his soul?” Mr 8:35-37

Our lives in this world are limited by so many things....if we break Gods law in an attempt to save our own lives, of what benefit is it to us? At best we may gain a few extra years, at worse we demonstrate our faithless disobedience to our Creator and loose out on life everlasting.

This is really an issue of faith and is a very personal matter.
 
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JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
I would love to hear a "reasonable explanation" for letting a child die from the need of a blood transfusion. Far, far, far more lives are saved by blood transfusions than are lost. That is a fact. There is no reason for you to even try to argue the point.

Well I'm sorry, but Jehovah's Witnesses are living proof that people do not die from refusing blood transfusions. I have lost count of the number of personal friends and acquaintances who were told point blank by medical staff that they would die without blood.....none of them did. In fact their recovery was much faster than others recovering from the same surgery or illness.

The blood business is worth hundreds of millions of dollars annually, so in spite of the risks which are well documented, it continues to be a recommended procedure. Do you need to be introduced to the corruption in the health industry? Or should I say the "ill health industry"?

It's all about the $$$$$$

How much does it cost to have a transfusion in a hospital?

In the USA....IRVINE, Calif., April 5 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- A new blood transfusion cost analysis study published in the April 2010 issue of Transfusion, a peer-reviewed academic journal, shows that when all of the complex cost factors leading up to and after a red blood cell (RBC) transfusion are considered, the actual cost of blood is substantially higher than previously estimated. With actual blood transfusion costs ranging between $522 and $1,183 per-unit—37% higher than estimated by prior studies, which did not include all associated costs—the new study calculates that the true cost of blood is 3.2 to 4.8-fold higher than reported blood product acquisition costs.(1)


New Published Study Finds the Cost of Blood Transfusions is Significantly Under-Estimated, Establishes... -- IRVINE, Calif., April 5 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ --

slide19.jpg


Hot Topic - Allogeneic Blood Transfusions - Mayo Medical Laboratories


In Britain,

Total cost of blood & components per
average transfusion = £968.75 which converts to $1583.33 USD

In Australia the annual cost for blood and blood products for 2009-2010 was
$851,000,000.


The risks....Blood Transfusion - Risks - NHS Choices

http://digital.library.adelaide.edu.au/dspace/bitstream/2440/6634/1/hdl_6634.pdf

"Blood Transfusions Still Overused and May Do More Harm Than Good in Some Patients

Johns Hopkins study shows wide variation in transfusion use in operating rooms"

Blood Transfusions Still Overused and May Do More Harm Than Good in Some Patients - 04/24/2012

Do people in America still get paid to donate blood? Do you know what kind of people need the money? Would you want their blood in your body?

Australians donate their blood for free, but for patients on the receiving end the cost is enormous, paid for by insurance companies and the Government. It is by and large an outdated procedure. No doctor worth his salt will give one or receive one.

Apart from the cost, the risks associated with blood transfusions has now meant a move towards bloodless medicine to save money and to benefit patients who recover from surgery faster than their transfused counterparts. Doctors with JW patients came to some surprising conclusions when their patients recovered faster and in better health than others who received blood.


The emotive 'saving the children stuff' is nonsense. You can no more save a child than an adult with a blood transfusion. Using saline solution will save a life by keeping the veins open and the volume of fluid in the body at an acceptable level. Red cell are made up very quickly with EPO, so patients recover without any drama resulting from the introduction of foreign blood. The body's first response to a foreign substance is to reject it. It is not surprising that our circulatory system is compatible with ordinary sea water.

Cases where someone has died as a result of refusing blood are so rare that they make the newspapers. Since the media has little interest in the truth, the sensational story will be told with no regard for how accurate it is.
The truth is those who died because they refused blood would probably have died regardless of whether they had received a blood transfusion or not. Do you know how many people die after receiving a transfusion?

The last time I signed a hospital admission form, I was asked if I had EVER HAD A BLOOD TRANSFUSION? Why?

I think you need to acquaint yourself with the facts Katzpur.

Transfusions are not all they are cracked up to be.


 
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Horrorble

Well-Known Member
I think we have to ask ourselves, what could be more reasonable then obedience to Gods law? Disobedience? Where does outright disobedience get us?

Regardless of how many people save their lives using blood, the law of God is solidly fixed "you must abstain from blood"

And when we add to this Jesus words
"whoever loses his soul [his life as a creature] for the sake of me and the good news will save it. Really, of what benefit is it for a man to gain the whole world and to forfeit his soul? What, really, would a man give in exchange for his soul?” Mr 8:35-37

Our lives in this world are limited by so many things....if we break Gods law in an attempt to save our own lives, of what benefit is it to us? At best we may gain a few extra years, at worse we demonstrate our faithless disobedience to our Creator and loose out on life everlasting.

This is really an issue of faith and is a very personal matter.

what is the passage that says "you must abstain from blood?"
 

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
Ah yes a blood transfusion means that you eat/drink/consume the blood.

Crazy people believe in crazy things.
 

starlite

Texasgirl
we dont try to prove people wrong, we try to prove the bible right.

But you are absolutely right, we dont want to waste anyones time which is why we promptly leave when people say they are not interested.
If they are interested, we will give them plenty of time though :)


Yes, Pegg, that's the way it is here where I am..Witnesses don't argue but display mildness.
 

starlite

Texasgirl
Hi dawny,

Give the local congregation a call, I'm sure they would love to come by for a visit. :yes:

In the meantime, you can always talk to us here. :)

Or go to the website: JW.org there you will find many of your questions answered...videos, Bible readings and real life stories
 

starlite

Texasgirl


Well I'm sorry, but Jehovah's Witnesses are living proof that people do not die from refusing blood transfusions. In fact their recovery was much faster than others recovering from the same surgery or illness.

My husband just had a mitral valve replacement without blood and he recovered very quickly. His cardiac surgeon would have preferred to do the surgery with blood but agreed to do it without. In my opinion he was much more careful than if he relied on a blood transfusion. Consider this please, is a blood transfusion a guarantee that an individual will live?

Our position is based on the command at Acts 15:28,29 ("For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!”) Yes, Jehovah's Witnesses are willing to die in order to obey this command...this is a demonstration of our faith in God's ability to know what is best...but, we are also willing to use non-blood medical management instead of blood. There are many safe alternatives. How many of you would be willing to die for a loved one? Or die for your country? Well, it's the same for Jehovah's Witnesses...they are willing to die for their beliefs and the desire to obey Jehovah God.
 
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Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
I think we have to ask ourselves, what could be more reasonable then obedience to Gods law? Disobedience? Where does outright disobedience get us?
I would agree with you, Pegg, that what we're really talking about is obedience. It's integrity. It's behaving in such a way that what you do is in accordance with what you believe. It's walking the walk and not just talking the talk, so so speak. That said, I suppose it gets down to what a correct understanding of the scriptures really is, and Jehovah's Witnesses do interpret certain scriptures differently from other Christians. If I honestly believed that God was opposed to our receiving blood as a proven means of saving our life, I suppose I would argue as strenuously for my belief as you do for yours. I just don't believe that's what the scripture is saying. And if I had a child who had lost an inordinate amount of blood in an accident and was in real danger of dying without a transfusion, I honestly wouldn't want to be in your shoes.

This is really an issue of faith and is a very personal matter.
Agreed, and if it were you and not someone else who'd brought up this issue, I probably wouldn't have even responded. Some people absolutely have to have the last word on everything, though, and so I'm going to let you-know-who's post stand without response.
 
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JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
Agreed, and if it were you and not someone else who'd brought up this issue, I probably wouldn't have even responded. Some people absolutely have to have the last word on everything, though, and so I'm going to let you-know-who's post stand without response.

LOL If ignorance about the subject is demonstrated, then information is what dispels it.

The information is not taken from JW sources...they are from well respected medical establishments.

If you have no response, it's because there is none.

Christians are told to "abstain from blood". Does that equate to an alcoholic being told to abstain from alcohol but then being able to inject it straight into his bloodstream? What does "abstain" mean?

The only way to take blood into the body when the scriptures were written was to ingest it. Gentiles ate blood without reservation, so the apostles reiterated the law of God twice in that strangled animals (thus unbled) and other consumption of blood were among the "necessary things" that all Christians were to avoid. (Acts 15:29, 29).
Consuming blood was a capital offence in Israel. (Lev 7:26, 27; 17:10-14) Has God changed his mind on this issue just because the delivery is different?

If a patient is not able to be fed by mouth, they take their 'food' intravenously. So we believe that taking blood into the body by any means is against the law of God. A law reinforced by the apostles specifically for Christians.

The fact that transfusions are not the life saving procedure that they were once thought to be is vindication of this. There are safer alternatives available to all.
 

Horrorble

Well-Known Member
LOL If ignorance about the subject is demonstrated, then information is what dispels it.

The information is not taken from JW sources...they are from well respected medical establishments.

If you have no response, it's because there is none.

Christians are told to "abstain from blood". Does that equate to an alcoholic being told to abstain from alcohol but then being able to inject it straight into his bloodstream? What does "abstain" mean?

The only way to take blood into the body when the scriptures were written was to ingest it. Gentiles ate blood without reservation, so the apostles reiterated the law of God twice in that strangled animals (thus unbled) and other consumption of blood were among the "necessary things" that all Christians were to avoid. (Acts 15:29, 29).
Consuming blood was a capital offence in Israel. (Lev 7:26, 27; 17:10-14) Has God changed his mind on this issue just because the delivery is different?

If a patient is not able to be fed by mouth, they take their 'food' intravenously. So we believe that taking blood into the body by any means is against the law of God. A law reinforced by the apostles specifically for Christians.

The fact that transfusions are not the life saving procedure that they were once thought to be is vindication of this. There are safer alternatives available to all.

And what is the context of acts 15:29?
"Stay away from any food that has been ·offered [sacrificed] to idols, eating any animals that have been strangled, and blood, and any kind of sexual sin [see v. 20]. If you stay away from these things, you will do well."
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
And what is the context of acts 15:29?
"Stay away from any food that has been ·offered [sacrificed] to idols, eating any animals that have been strangled, and blood, and any kind of sexual sin [see v. 20]. If you stay away from these things, you will do well."

The context was the issue of circumcision for non Jewish Christians actually.
It was decided upon that circumcision was not required for Gentiles but that abstaining from the "necessary things" the apostles said...."28*For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: 29*to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!”

The consumption of blood was put on the same level as fornication, which also carried the death penalty in Israel.
 

Horrorble

Well-Known Member
The context was the issue of circumcision for non Jewish Christians actually.
It was decided upon that circumcision was not required for Gentiles but that abstaining from the "necessary things" the apostles said...."28*For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: 29*to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!”

The consumption of blood was put on the same level as fornication, which also carried the death penalty in Israel.

The context is food jay, meat specifically
Acts 15:29
Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
29 Don’t eat food that has been given to idols.
Don’t eat meat from animals that have been strangled or any meat that still has the blood in it.
Don’t be involved in sexual sin.
If you stay away from these, you will do well.

JWs consume blood all the time in their meat.
 

Yadon

Active Member
Have you ever really asked a JW about blood transfusions, their views on charity and the occult? Whatever the etc etc is, I'm sure you've never spoken (or listened) to them about any of it, or else you would see that they have very reasonable explanations. If you have gained your misinformation from other sources, then I can tell you now, none of it is true. :no:

Google the dangers of blood transfusions. Then Google bloodless surgery. It isn't necessarily the life saving procedure most people have been led to believe it is. It is a huge money making industry. If you think there is no corruption where vast sums of money are concerned then perhaps you need a reality check.

I have read the Watchtower's literature directly on all of them, I am not getting this second hand.

Charities are also huge money making businesses. If they were genuine charities, the big wigs at the top would be volunteers, not marketers making huge salaries.
We believe charity begins at home. We take care of our own and when we are done, we look for others who need help. If every religious institution did that, there wouldn't be much left for governments to take care of....but that is not what we see.

None of our elders are paid. Every one of Jehovah's Witnesses is a volunteer. That leaves funds to be spent where they are needed most.
Actually they are making millions and don't care how unhappy their Church is. It's very corrupt and I've read about this from ex-Jehovah Witnesses about how the entire system works so I don't want to hear it. Organizations like the girl scouts are trying to teach girls skills and network them they are not for-profit groups.

The occult is something forbidden in the Bible. All Christians should avoid it like the plague. That is toying with the devil. (Deut 18:10-12)
That is nonsense. "Occult" just means hidden. I've been into the occult for years and I've seen no Christian devil because the Christian devil is a thing they use to keep you in fear.

Actually we are simply messengers. We are not there to indoctrinate anyone,
Reguardless of what semantics you want to hide behind you are still coming unsolicited to sell a religion, in which your leadership hopes will generate donations in the future. Every Christian organization asks it's members to donate. The most common figure I hear is 10% of one's income.

Like Jesus, we offer people a hope for the future and a way to live life now that will help to prevent the heartache and pain that comes from seeking escape in drug and alcohol addiction, immoral conduct and crime. The Bible has the solution to all our problems.
One doesn't need the Bible to not drink, smoke, harm people or break the law. I am not a Christian and I've never smoked, never drank, never been to jail, and never beaten someone up. I'm not exaggerating, I mean that literally as in never. I don't need your religion to teach me that, just common sense and human decency.

Offering something to someone can be declined. We are not there to annoy anyone, just to offer hope and help to those who need it and who seek a better way to live. How horrible is that? :confused:
It's horrible when it's for a corrupt organization such as the Watchtower which is known to have made the leaders fairly wealthy.

Only ignorant people are nasty. It is not against the law to knock on someone's door and offer them hope.
The idea that you offer them "hope" is a matter of opinion. I think telling someone to believe in a book in a way that contradicts most of known science and actually harms them spiritually is not hope but a lie.

If you wish to decline, what is the point of being rude? It just shows what kind of person 'you' are.
There is nothing inherently wrong with being rude if the person has harassed you if that is the only thing that will make the message clear. The very act of coming on my property to sell me your religion opens the door to have that religion criticized, mocked or scalded. I'm not saying that is nessisarily the ethical thing to do in every case but if you go to someone's door multiple times after they say they are not interested like in the original post of this topic, such rudeness might be required since being nice didn't work in the past.

We have a commission from Jesus to preach the good news of God's kingdom....if you don't want to know about it, that is entirely up to you. :(
You have a command by an organization who claim a book tells you to. A book of which no contemporary copies exist for Jesus's or his apostle's time survive today.
 
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Regardless of how many people save their lives using blood, the law of God is
solidly fixed "you must abstain from blood"
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]I'm pretty sure that verse means abstaining from consuming it as one would
food/beverages. Otherwise, everyone would have to drain the blood they
already have out of their bodies, if indeed they were to abstain from it
altogether. Obviously, the way God designed us, blood is rather important.

[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Getting back to the OP, my solution for any unwanted solicitation is a
combination of a “no soliciting” sign on my door and not answering said door
at all if I don't recognize who is there. This approach has been very effective. :)
[/FONT]



[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]-[/FONT]
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
The context is food jay, meat specifically
Acts 15:29
Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
29 Don’t eat food that has been given to idols.
Don’t eat meat from animals that have been strangled or any meat that still has the blood in it.
Don’t be involved in sexual sin.
If you stay away from these, you will do well.

JWs consume blood all the time in their meat.
No more so than Jews did in their consumption of meat.
An animal in Israel had to be bled, meaning that it was hung up and drained of its lifeblood.
That was what the law stipulated.

The consumption of blood was covered in my previous posts.
 

Horrorble

Well-Known Member
No more so than Jews did in their consumption of meat.
An animal in Israel had to be bled, meaning that it was hung up and drained of its lifeblood.
That was what the law stipulated.

The consumption of blood was covered in my previous posts.

Jews eat kosher meat, do you? And kosher meat is not just hanging up the animal and bleeding it out.
Do JWs eat steak that is not well done? You eat blood all the time in your meat yet you take a passage that is about animal blood in meat and put so much emphasis on blood tranfusions.
 

Triumphant_Loser

Libertarian Egalitarian
JW's came to my door this morning. I did not answer the door even though they saw me sitting in the living room. I have asked these people three times in the last six months not to come here and take my address off there calling list which they said they would every time.
Why don't JW's listen ?

Draw a pentagram in red paint on your front door... that should keep them away. ;)
 
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