healthcare as a benefit/privilege?

[dawny0826]

Oh, come on, Rick! Through-out history, even the most savage tribes took care of their own. Would you have us be greater savages than they were?

Yeah, Phil. And to survive, all had to hunt, build, push themselves or they'd starve.

 

[dawny0826]

From the bottom up or the top down?

I don't buy into the argument that wealth distribution is inherently "bad"....because I see it happening in both directions.

Wealth redistribution continues to nurture cycles of dependency which benefits the folks who need the help, the least, in the long run.

It takes all of us to plant the seeds necessary for a strong nation, financially and otherwise. If our tax dollars have been covering the needs of only the genuinely disabled and incapable all along, we wouldn't be in this place.

Everyone who can make decisions needs to make the best decisions for their lives.

I tire of paying for the mistakes of others, as it makes it more and more challenging to take care of my own family.

Under all current forms of healthcare in this country taxpayers pay. It doesn't matter if it's government run, government assisted, individual plans or group plans through private insurance companies. We pay for all the government run/assisted services and we pay upwards of $1000 a year in our private plans to help cover the cost of those who don't have insurance....

Seriously, is this not THE problem? We continue to help cover the costs of those who do not have insurance, in addition to paying directly into Medicare and Medicaid, programs that suck - largely because they force service for less, in a consumer-driven market.

I want the government on the sidelines of our healthcare. Any regulation that exists should be minimal and serve to protect the consumer. The consumer should always have a choice. I'd like to see the government slink away and allow our health care systems to operate free-market. A "regulated" free market should be very, very, minimally regulated by the government. (Otherwise, it's not a free market, people.)

Unlike a lot of you, I'll continue to support people in my own community through charitable efforts vs. government-imposed programs that don't address the heart of issues, thus, nurturing the same cycles of opression and dependency.

At the end of the day you people can pretend all you want. America will continue to go to hell in a handbasket until we start examining mindsets and allow individuals to deal with their own accountability for their life choices. Families and communities should be taking care of each other. I think that tax dollars are better spent in our own communities, strengthening relationships and systems of support on the local most levels.

If we're paying anyway then I see no problem with reducing our spending in various areas, eliminating and/or consolidating agencies and services...to help pay for it

The tax payer will continue to pay for it. As a result, you'll continue to get push back. A lot of people have had enough.

 

[Sand Dancer]

I take it as being part of Abraham Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. The second most basic needs are safety and health needs. These should try to be met by the community, in whatever way we can.

 

[metis]

I take it as being part of Abraham Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. The second most basic needs are safety and health needs. These should try to be met by the community, in whatever way we can.

Well said, and we also need to remember that charity alone has not been able to keep up with taking care of our medical needs, and this has been true in every single industrialized country.

When I was hospitalized for several days with a rather serious neck injury that has left me partially paralyzed, which charity would pick up that bill if I didn't have insurance? Or how about a friend of mine that's on cancer medication but has no insurance, which charity will help pick up that tab? Or my brother-in-law who prematurely died last August because he had no insurance and he knew he couldn't afford the hospital stay and doctors' fees? [rhetorical questions]

 

[Reverend Rick]

Oh, come on, Rick! Through-out history, even the most savage tribes took care of their own. Would you have us be greater savages than they were?

Seriously? do you really want everyone to be dependant on what the least common denominator among us decide to throw scrap wise off the table?

We need a single payer system. This health care plan the Democrats voted for is a farse. Arrange the deck chairs on the Titanic all you like, but I know a sinking ship when I see one. This is why I retired.

The ACA is a joke and both sides need to acknowledge this before we destroy health care as we know it.

The king is wearing no clothes. I know you are smart enough to see this. Let's stop the partisanship and solve this before people get hurt.

 

[metis]

Seriously? do you really want everyone to be dependant on what the least common denominator among us decide to throw scrap wise off the table?

We need a single payer system. This health care plan the Democrats voted for is a farse. Arrange the deck chairs on the Titanic all you like, but I know a sinking ship when I see one. This is why I retired.

The ACA is a joke and both sides need to acknowledge this before we destroy health care as we know it.

The king is wearing no clothes. I know you are smart enough to see this. Let's stop the partisanship and solve this before people get hurt.

The CBO says otherwise, although I fully agree that we should have gone in the direction of a single-payer system. What the Democrats need is another party to work with them to tweek what's necessary, but no such other party exists. If anyone thinks what we now see is a disaster, the problems created if the ACA doesn't work could be a relative nightmare, and that's also according to the CBO.

 

[Reverend Rick]

The CBO says otherwise, although I fully agree that we should have gone in the direction of a single-payer system. What the Democrats need is another party to work with them to tweek what's necessary, but no such other party exists. If anyone thinks what we now see is a disaster, the problems created if the ACA doesn't work could be a relative nightmare, and that's also according to the CBO.

If your going to do something and effect the whole country, do it right or do nothing at all. The Democraic party handed the Republican party the next presidency. People are upset big time.

The ACA sucks!

 

[Mr Spinkles]

The Democraic party handed the Republican party the next presidency. People are upset big time.

Does anyone else hear an echo? I can't be sure if you wrote this in 2013, or re-posted it from some other year since 2008.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

This sentence suggests that continuance is inevitable.

I'm not suggesting a continuance just stating a fact that it has has continued.

But no, it's a choice.
Obama had the ability to end the wars immediately, to stop the rush to citizen
surveillance, to end don't-ask-don't-tell by fiat, etc. He consciously chose his path.

He has implemented some reforms and oversight (more is needed)....but the surveillance state won't end with simply the stroke of the Presidential pen. It is an apparatus, much like the bloated military, that has festered over the decades and I believe the surveillance goes much deeper than a President or even deeper than you and I have access to...and I've had more access to it than you.

If you agree that my party is feckless, then your argument that we're blocking your nanny state evaporates, bub.

Where did I say "your party"....Your party isn't a factor in much at the local, state or federal level....unless you're counting yourselves (which many of you have) amongst the Republicans....

Being in charge doesn't mean you automatically get your way.

True....but we're not trying to get our way. We opt for a multi-party bipartisan government with input from all voters.

Perhaps fortunately, Democratic leadership has been weak. This cannot be blamed on Publicans.

Not completely but dark money from special interest groups and gerryrigging (gerrymandering)...plays its role too.

Of course you don't care about us.
SpluuUUuuh! We're the enemy.

Libertarians ARE NOT the enemy. You have many "Liberal" views I agree with....

Btw, I'm not a Libertarian because I expect to win power.
I just cannot be one of you in the Big Two.

No one's asking you to.

Our screaming cannot be heard over your screaming "Gimme, gimme, gimme!".

What am I asking for? I work hard for what I have.....but I do recognize that homelessness, poverty, children, the sick and the elderly in this country should take priority over the military industrial complex, The surveillance state and any sort of breaks to special interest, business/corporation or any wealthy/rich individual. I think that if we're to pay taxes than it should be spent on the people first in a productive way......I don't believe in handouts for the sake of handing out nor do I believe in big government for the sake of making government bigger...

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I tire of paying for the mistakes of others, as it makes it more and more challenging to take care of my own family.

Mistakes such as what...? I've met plenty of families over the past ten years where the mother and the father worked and had health insurance that covered the whole family. One member of the family lost a job where the employer plan that once covered the family is no longer there. Given the types of jobs many working poor and middle class single parents or families have these days many of these jobs aren't paying enough or like they use to for people to buy healthcare....and let's face it...you will always have some level of poverty in the country where the less fortunate will need assistance.

Seriously, is this not THE problem? We continue to help cover the costs of those who do not have insurance, in addition to paying directly into Medicare and Medicaid, programs that suck - largely because they force service for less, in a consumer-driven market.

Which is why I say dump them all and go Single Payer.

I want the government on the sidelines of our healthcare. Any regulation that exists should be minimal and serve to protect the consumer.

If you want consumer protections in this type of market then regulations can't and won't be minimal.

The consumer should always have a choice. I'd like to see the government slink away and allow our health care systems to operate free-market. A "regulated" free market should be very, very, minimally regulated by the government. (Otherwise, it's not a free market, people.)

This is the situation we find ourselves in right now before the ACA. The government did allow what you're suggesting....and it doesn't work....at least not for this particular industry.

Unlike a lot of you, I'll continue to support people in my own community through charitable efforts vs. government-imposed programs that don't address the heart of issues, thus, nurturing the same cycles of opression and dependency.

I applaud you for your stance but get out and about like I do and every charity you talk to about helping to cloth, feed, shelter the poor or provide healthcare of some degree to the poor will all tell you that they can only do but so much.....and they're not able to keep up solely on charitable contributions from the community alone.

At the end of the day you people can pretend all you want. America will continue to go to hell in a handbasket until we start examining mindsets and allow individuals to deal with their own accountability for their life choices.

And you're under some misguided impression that Americans don't. As has been pointed out...a large proportion of Americans work, many families with two incomes. Those getting various forms of public assistance are from households of one or more working adults, households with kids and households with elderly.....So your disdain constitutes a small segment of the overall public.

Families and communities should be taking care of each other. I think that tax dollars are better spent in our own communities, strengthening relationships and systems of support on the local most levels.

I agree but tax dollars from one's own state may not be enough which is why the majority of the states look to the feds for assistance.

The tax payer will continue to pay for it. As a result, you'll continue to get push back. A lot of people have had enough.

Except that if you're looking at who's pushing back they are the very same people getting a lot of federal dollars....:sad:

 

[Dirty Penguin]

If your going to do something and effect the whole country, do it right or do nothing at all. The Democraic party handed the Republican party the next presidency. People are upset big time.

The ACA sucks!

So be it...

If the voters feel this way so strongly in 2016 then your party should go for it. They should repeal everything they hate about this President, Democrats and the agenda set forth...but when it all falls apart and increases the deficit....and it will (see CBO)....Will your party own it?

 

[Aquitaine]

Seriously? do you really want everyone to be dependant on what the least common denominator among us decide to throw scrap wise off the table?

We need a single payer system. This health care plan the Democrats voted for is a farse. Arrange the deck chairs on the Titanic all you like, but I know a sinking ship when I see one. This is why I retired.

The ACA is a joke and both sides need to acknowledge this before we destroy health care as we know it.

The king is wearing no clothes. I know you are smart enough to see this. Let's stop the partisanship and solve this before people get hurt.

Wait, so you actually want Single Payer healthcare (where the Government 'picks up the Tab') implemented in the United States?

 

[Reverend Rick]

Wait, so you actually want Single Payer healthcare (where the Government 'picks up the Tab') implemented in the United States?

Yes I want to extend medicare. I don't like socialised medicine, but if we are going down that road lets do it right.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yes I want to extend medicare. I don't like socialised medicine, but if we are going down that road lets do it right.

Hooray! We agree on something!

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm not suggesting a continuance just stating a fact that it has has continued.

Does this mean you agree that Obama could've gone against the Bush agendas instead of continuing it?

He has implemented some reforms and oversight (more is needed)....but the surveillance state won't end with simply the stroke of the Presidential pen. It is an apparatus, much like the bloated military, that has festered over the decades and I believe the surveillance goes much deeper than a President or even deeper than you and I have access to...and I've had more access to it than you.

Are you trying to claim special cloak & dagger expertise? Perhaps you & my hired
hand
(the retired auto parts salesman who knows of secret fed gov plans) served together, eh?

Where did I say "your party"....

In post #155 you referred to capitol "L" Libertarians, as opposed to the small "l" types.

Your party isn't a factor in much at the local, state or federal level....unless you're counting yourselves (which many of you have) amongst the Republicans....

I'm no more a Republican than you are.
(Although you'd fit in well with them.)

True....but we're not trying to get our way. We opt for a multi-party bipartisan government with input from all voters.

Sure, you don't win every battle, but yours & the other party craft all law & policy.
Voters merely get to pick between the Big Two, which is great for the majority,
but this does not reflect input from the minority who find neither attractive.

Not completely but dark money from special interest groups and gerryrigging (gerrymandering)...plays its role too.

This is to carp about election games that both sides play.
But is it a tacit admission that Dem leadership is weak?

Libertarians ARE NOT the enemy. You have many "Liberal" views I agree with....

Agreement is the foundation for enmity. (It heightens the differences.)

What am I asking for? I work hard for what I have.....but I do recognize that homelessness, poverty, children, the sick and the elderly in this country should take priority over the military industrial complex, The surveillance state and any sort of breaks to special interest, business/corporation or any wealthy/rich individual. I think that if we're to pay taxes than it should be spent on the people first in a productive way......I don't believe in handouts for the sake of handing out nor do I believe in big government for the sake of making government bigger...

It seems that you should become dissatisfied with the Big Two also.

 

[Aquitaine]

Hooray! We agree on something!

I suppose if there's one Silver Lining with the AHCA, it's that it has the potential to get Conservatives and Liberals agreeing on one thing: that it's time the USA followed every other Industrialised nation in establishing Universal Healthcare/Single Payer Healthcare for all it's citizens.

w00t! Hooray for progress!

 

[Tarheeler]

I suppose if there's one Silver Lining with the AHCA, it's that it has the potential to get Conservatives and Liberals agreeing on one thing: that it's time the USA followed every other Industrialised nation in establishing Universal Healthcare/Single Payer Healthcare for all it's citizens.

w00t! Hooray for progress!

I'm starting to think that that was the whole purpose of the ACA: To get the whole country on board with a single-payer system.

 

[Aquitaine]

I'm starting to think that that was the whole purpose of the ACA: To get the whole country on board with a single-payer system.

Indeed, and it would be about bloody time, lol!

 

[Tarheeler]

Indeed, and it would be about bloody time, lol!

What makes it so bad is that the ACA isn't necessarily a bad program; it's a solid idea and could be quite effective. But that would require our politicians to actually work together to hammer out solutions and to tweak everything in the right directions.

 

[metis]

If your going to do something and effect the whole country, do it right or do nothing at all. The Democraic party handed the Republican party the next presidency. People are upset big time.

I wouldn't be betting big money on that. Are you at all following what's been happening in regards to the ACA exchanges in California and New York, for example? My guess, and it's only a guess at this stage, is that if this thing flies by next summer and we see the enrollment numbers like we're seeing in those two states, it may well be that the Republicans could be caught holding the bog next November. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

The ACA sucks!

So, you oppose helping 30 million Americans with their health care? How exactly does that fit into your religious beliefs? In mine, we are expected to help those in need, and we well know that charity alone cannot handle that load.