Welfare Fraud?

[esmith]

I'm not saying that all welfare recipients are guilty of this but it does seem to indicate that some in CA are living quite well on the taxpayers dollars.

AFP's "Common Sense": Around the World on $69 Million in Welfare Funds - YouTube

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I'm not saying that all welfare recipients are guilty of this...

But you basically are.

 

[McBell]

You might be surprised at the number of people who get away with welfare fraud.
Now since some states will not prosecute welfare fraud even when all the evidence is handed to them...

The reason given that they will end up spending even more money to prosecute and will never see the money fraudulently received returned, it is not worth it to prosecute.

 

[Alceste]

AFP? Oooh, please tell me what to think, Koch brothers! Tell me who I should vote for! * smack * Thank you, sir, can I have another? * smack *

 

[esmith]

AFP? Oooh, please tell me what to think, Koch brothers! Tell me who I should vote for! * smack * Thank you, sir, can I have another? * smack *

Hmmm, are you objecting to those on welfare scamming the system or are you objecting to those that are objecting to welfare scams. Hard to say from the above; but it appears that you don't have a real answer so you are just attempting to change the subject. Guess you do not have anything relevant to say.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Hmmm, are you objecting to those on welfare scamming the system or are you objecting to those that are objecting to welfare scams. Hard to say from the above; but it appears that you don't have a real answer so you are just attempting to change the subject. Guess you do not have anything relevant to say.

I found it clearly understandable and relevant.

 

[freethinker44]

I'm not saying that all welfare recipients are guilty of this but it does seem to indicate that some in CA are living quite well on the taxpayers dollars.

AFP's "Common Sense": Around the World on $69 Million in Welfare Funds - YouTube

I agree. Corporations are living well on taxpayers dollars. Even those making billions in profit each year still take billions more in taxpayer dollars to pad their pockets.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I agree. Corporations are living well on taxpayers dollars. Even those making billions in profit each year still take billions more in taxpayer dollars to pad their pockets.

This.....:yes:

But to be clear so esmith doesn't get the impression I condone welfare fraud....I don't....

 

[esmith]

I agree. Corporations are living well on taxpayers dollars. Even those making billions in profit each year still take billions more in taxpayer dollars to pad their pockets.

This.....:yes:

But to be clear so esmith doesn't get the impression I condone welfare fraud....I don't....

Ah, again attempt to change the subject from fraudulent use of public welfare to "corporate welfare". First, this post is on "fraudulent use of taxpayer's money" it is not on subsides paid to corporations. If and when anyone brings to light any fraud associated with taxpayers money going to corporations I will be more than willing to discuss it. This would include crony capitalism. However, this post is on the fraud within the public welfare system.

 

[tytlyf]

I'm not saying that all welfare recipients are guilty of this but it does seem to indicate that some in CA are living quite well on the taxpayers dollars.

AFP's "Common Sense": Around the World on $69 Million in Welfare Funds - YouTube

Interesting video. Really leaves a lot of questions unanswered. I feel intrigued to ask some questions to you esmith.
Do you want me to debunk (put into logic) it now or later?

Just don't post a video without doing research. We've been down this road before.

Links to read first (original quoted article in video)
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/oct/04/local/la-me-welfare-20101004
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/jul/28/welfare-capital-of-the-us/

Now, with this knowledge, the claim of fraud kinda falls apart.

 

[esmith]

Interesting video. Really leaves a lot of questions unanswered. I feel intrigued to ask some questions to you esmith.
Do you want me to debunk (put into logic) it now or later?

Just don't post a video without doing research. We've been down this road before.

Links to read first (original quoted article in video)
$69 million in California welfare money drawn out of state - Los Angeles Times
Is California the welfare capital? Page 1 of 4 | UTSanDiego.com

Now, with this knowledge, the claim of fraud kinda falls apart.

So, what part of the LA Times and U T San Diego articles debunks the story of welfare fraud?

 

[tytlyf]

Just for those Doubting Thomas's
$69 million in California welfare money drawn out of state - Los Angeles Times

Huh? I'll break it down quick as I'm getting off and bout to do some killing (with guns) online.

Less than 1% of the total funds were used out of state.
3% of total welfare recipients in CA spent out of state.
Numbers covered a 3.4 year period.
CalWorks (welfare system) is a work program. So they have work income on top of the typical $500 monthly check.
etc, etc. Just read the articles.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Ah, again attempt to change the subject from fraudulent use of public welfare to "corporate welfare". First, this post is on "fraudulent use of taxpayer's money" it is not on subsides paid to corporations. If and when anyone brings to light any fraud associated with taxpayers money going to corporations I will be more than willing to discuss it. This would include crony capitalism. However, this post is on the fraud within the public welfare system.

Who cares....?

Welfare fraud occurs. It occurs in EVERY state. Not just Blue but the Red ones too. Laws should be swift in this area. No one here is arguing in favor of those who commit fraud......Better oversight is needed at every level....and personally I believe restrictions should be put on where the card can be used and for what purposes...

 

[freethinker44]

Ah, again attempt to change the subject from fraudulent use of public welfare to "corporate welfare". First, this post is on "fraudulent use of taxpayer's money" it is not on subsides paid to corporations. If and when anyone brings to light any fraud associated with taxpayers money going to corporations I will be more than willing to discuss it. This would include crony capitalism. However, this post is on the fraud within the public welfare system.

OK, in that case it is probably a non-issue then. Only 2 to 3 percent of the cases investigated are found to actually be fraud, the actual number is no doubt higher but is probably no where near as rampant as people's perception would dictate. In fact, if we were simply talking about curbing tax dollar waste, investigating welfare fraud is a tremendous waste. We should stop doing it.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

We get it. Poor people are lazy, evil, sub-human thieves and scumbags, and wealthy people are heroic scions of moral virtue and selflessness. We really need to just face reality and kill everyone who isn't worth at least seven figures.

 

[Revoltingest]

Interesting....esmith posts a thread about welfare fraud, & it attracts a whole flock of welfare
apologists who try to make it about everything except welfare fraud. I wonder what they believe.
- Does welfare fraud not matter?
- Is welfare fraud an acceptable form of wealth distribution or a social safety net?
- Is fraud by the class they care so much about an embarrassment to be distracted from?
- Is fraud non-existent, since it isn't covered by MSNBC or Huf Po?

The speaker does make one mistake I notice...there are two Four Seasons hotels on Lanai.
(One for golfers, & one for beach enthusiasts. I prefer the latter.)

 

[freethinker44]

Interesting....esmith posts a thread about welfare fraud, & it attracts a whole flock of welfare
apologists who try to make it about everything except welfare fraud. I wonder what they believe.
- Does welfare fraud not matter?
- Is welfare fraud an acceptable form of wealth distribution or a social safety net?
- Is fraud by the class they care so much about an embarrassment to be distracted from?
- Is fraud non-existent, since it isn't covered by MSNBC or Huf Po?

The speaker does make one mistake I notice...there are two Four Seasons hotels on Lanai.
(One for golfers, & one for beach enthusiasts. I prefer the latter.)

Is it an actual problem or is it a perceived problem? I admit I only did a total of 15 minutes of research on the subject, but from the statistics the vast majority of people on welfare actually need it and the biggest waste here is investigating welfare fraud. I am not advocating that we stop investigating fraud though, even if it is just a deterent to fraud it is money well spent. I'm just saying in this case perception is not reality. I'm just pointing out how much of a non-issue it is. We believe it's an issue and end up wasting more money trying to prevent and prosecute fraud than we do in money lost to actual fraud.

 

[Revoltingest]

Is it an actual problem or is it a perceived problem? I admit I only did a total of 15 minutes of research on the subject, but from the statistics the vast majority of people on welfare actually need it and the biggest waste here is investigating welfare fraud. I am not advocating that we stop investigating fraud though, even if it is just a deterent to fraud it is money well spent. I'm just saying in this case perception is not reality.

It strikes me that even if fraud is a small percentage, it would still be a large sum of money, & therefore worth reining in. Welfare fraud,
like corporate welfare, is something worth eliminating no matter how large or small the benefit. The video in the OP seems noteworthy
because of the outrageous nature of the waste....money withdrawn by a recipient on Lenai, which is a rather exclusive place.

 

[tytlyf]

So, what part of the LA Times and U T San Diego articles debunks the story of welfare fraud?

Interesting....esmith posts a thread about welfare fraud, & it attracts a whole flock of welfare
apologists who try to make it about everything except welfare fraud. I wonder what they believe.
- Does welfare fraud not matter?
- Is welfare fraud an acceptable form of wealth distribution or a social safety net?
- Is fraud by the class they care so much about an embarrassment to be distracted from?
- Is fraud non-existent, since it isn't covered by MSNBC or Huf Po?

The speaker does make one mistake I notice...there are two Four Seasons hotels on Lanai.
(One for golfers, & one for beach enthusiasts. I prefer the latter.)

Again people. Where is the fraud?

 

[freethinker44]

It strikes me that even if fraud is a small percentage, it would still be a large sum of money, & therefore worth reining in. Welfare fraud,
like corporate welfare, is something worth eliminating no matter how large or small the benefit. The video in the OP seems noteworthy
because of the outrageous nature of the waste....money withdrawn by a recipient on Lenai, which is a rather exclusive place.

It's not that large of a sum. It was hard to find any real data on exactly what I wanted to know, so I took the amount of the budget spent on welfare and divided it by the amount of people on food stamps. Comes out to about 10,000 per year or 830 per month. Also, if only 2 to 3 percent of welfare recipients commit fraud, even if it was 10 percent, it is still less than 1% of the total budget.

I agree with you that it is worth seeking out and stopping fraud, but in relation to total government waste, welfare fraud is not even close to being a problem.