Some questions about God?

[Terrywoodenpic]

Well, some of them have domains or are patrons of things that extend beyond planet earth, but I don't concern myself with that. I also can't say if the gods I experience whose domains would hypothetically extend beyond planet earth actually do, because I haven't exactly visited any other planets. >_>

Some deities really are tied to the landscape, though. The spirit of a specific river only exists where that river flows (the otherworlds notwithstanding). I float back and forth between whether or not I regard many of the classical Pagan deities (e.g., Odin, Amaterasu, Hestia, and the like) to be local or regional rather than global. I've had experiences which support both interpretations. I don't have it all figured out by a long shot and do not expect to in my lifetime. What's important is to find a way of working that allows me to relate to what is around me and experience it with joy and gratitude.

I could live with that

Thanks....

 

[Krishna Chaitanya]

Hi Terrywoodenpic,

Oops, looks like you read the post while I was still editing and did not put in the main info .

I am glad you found it useful. Anyways, now I have made it complete.

Thanks and regards!
Chaitanya

 

[ratikala]

hari bol prabhu ji

Just FYI: I am a follower of Bhagavad Gita and am convinced that the same almighty GOD is described in the scriptures - both Abrahamic and dharmic. These scriptures also mention that his glory is unlimited. He is not limited to religions, regions, gender etc.

jai jai , I can happily agree

He is happy with some one calling him Jehovah (the self-existent one), ELOHIM (the powerful and mighty), Allah (God - referring to Generator, Operator and destroyer - describing the glory that is within our capacity to understand), Krishna (the all attractive one - containing all the potency in full, namely power, beauty, knowledge, wealth, fame, renunciation), Vishnu (the maintainer of creation), Rama (the supreme enjoyer) etc. All these names describe his various qualities and which ever is most appropriate for our level of understanding and conviction, we call him by that name and he reciprocates accordingly. It is only the people with incomplete, partial and bogus understanding of religion promote extremism and hatred, but the supreme lord is all loving.

When it comes to relation with God, we cannot call anyone and everyone as GOD. Some may be godly and saintly but not GOD. At the same time GOD expands into multiple forms in the same level of truth (tattva in sanskrit) and each of those forms are qualified to be addressed as GOD (avatar in sanskrit).
Thanks for the nice question and wish you best regards for your spiritual practice. Hope that some will benefit to all of you... coz it took me few hrs to compile it.

Chaitanya

most beautifull post worth the time spent composing it :namaste

ironicaly I was just listening to a well loved bhajan (Hindu song of praise)

raghu pati raghava rajaram , .... lord rama cheif of thr raghu clan
patita pavana sitaram ,.........uplifters of the fallen
bhaj pyare tu sitsram ...........beloved sita rama ishwar allah tero nam , .....god or allah is your name
saab ko sanmate de bhagavan , ......... bless us with your wisdom almighty lord .



just thought to share a ilttle more on the one god veiw

I doubt my translation is perfect but can give an idea of the sence of the bhajan.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Hi Terrywoodenpic,

Oops, looks like you read the post while I was still editing and did not put in the main info .

I am glad you found it useful. Anyways, now I have made it complete.

Thanks and regards!
Chaitanya

Thanks
I have read it through again, but what you have changed is not obvious as I tend to read between the lines rather than word for word. And the thoughts have not changed.

That was a lot of work:yes:

Regards Terry ...Till tomorrow as it is late....

 

[Krishna Chaitanya]

Hi,

@Ratikala: Thanks for your post. That was the last part of the full post and i am glad that some are benefitted by it.

I have also heard it, but I am not sure of the source. Its a very valid theme based on fact that GOD has different names. As per the Vedanta school of though, Ishvara refers to the Paramatma who is in complete control of material world as he pervades in EVERY THING in there (Ref: Ishavasya Upanishad, Shukla Yajur Veda).

@Terry: Thanks for reading it again . Apologize that I did not organize properly the first time and had to edit multiple times.

Thanks
Chaitanya

 

[Sir Doom]

Some questions about God?

Sure thing! I will of course be answering from my own personal god-concept's perspective (regardless of capital letters here and there)...

Does God live vicariously through his Creation?

By creation I assume you mean humanity. To a certain extent, yes. I assume that if there is a god, whatever purpose it has for us must be something it cannot accomplish on its own, or is made much easier by our presence. So, its either a vicarious or direct living situation. For unrelated reasons I also assume it's the latter.

Does God live a life, separate to that of his creation?

Yes, I believe so. I think that our species and the planet we live on is probably important to god to some extent or another, but probably not the only important thing, and probably not the most important thing either.

Does God have companions outside of his creation?

Not only companions, but peers, superiors, rivals, enemies and every degree of relation you could think of and probably a ton that none of us could think of.

Does God have interests outside of his creation?

Yes, I would assume so. I would assume that everything outside of god's creation would be of interest to god.

Is God's Creation larger than himself?

If you mean physically, that's just a silly question since its likely that actual dimensional volume and what not are fairly irrelevant to anything resembling a god, let alone the real deal.

If you mean it figuratively as in, "the creation is more important than the creator" than I would say absolutely not. The creation is an extension of the creator, so any success of ours is a success in at least some small way of the creator as well.

Does God's creation include anything that he did not create himself?

Yes. I'm typing on something god did not create.

Is our God's creation established within a larger creation not of his making?

I believe so, yes. I believe that gods are very much a part of this universe that we live in as opposed to apart from it.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Sure thing! I will of course be answering from my own personal god-concept's perspective (regardless of capital letters here and there)...

That is the most we can ever do, Though some people are restricted in their thinking to what their religion demands of them.

By creation I assume you mean humanity. To a certain extent, yes. I assume that if there is a god, whatever purpose it has for us must be something it cannot accomplish on its own, or is made much easier by our presence. So, its either a vicarious or direct living situation. For unrelated reasons I also assume it's the latter.

I do not restrict my thoughts of creation to humanity or this world.
However that situation is the most relevant to us now... but that may not always be the case.

Yes, I believe so. I think that our species and the planet we live on is probably important to god to some extent or another, but probably not the only important thing, and probably not the most important thing either.

May be we and Our world have a part to play in the scheme of things, that we are yet unaware of.

Not only companions, but peers, superiors, rivals, enemies and every degree of relation you could think of and probably a ton that none of us could think of.

It is thought that God lives outside and is not restricted by our time and space.
That being the case the particular plane he lives on could also be fully populated.

Yes, I would assume so. I would assume that everything outside of god's creation would be of interest to god.

That gels with my remark above.

If you mean physically, that's just a silly question since its likely that actual dimensional volume and what not are fairly irrelevant to anything resembling a god, let alone the real deal.

If you mean it figuratively as in, "the creation is more important than the creator" than I would say absolutely not. The creation is an extension of the creator, so any success of ours is a success in at least some small way of the creator as well.

I did not give a meaning to the quesation...If God and "This" creation live in different time and spaces they could be of quite different physical size, either larger or smaller. ( even we can build structures larger than ourselves)
Gods abilities would seem to be infinite in relation to this universe, so that little of his potential need be invested in it. It might be only of minor interest, but interest nevertheless.

Yes. I'm typing on something god did not create.

That is only one sense... If his own plane of existence is populated by other "beings" similar to himself, he could no doubt use other resources with in this one.

I believe so, yes. I believe that gods are very much a part of this universe that we live in as opposed to apart from it.
Some nice thinking there

In all the above scenarios... I would see a greater Creation in which God resides and is native to. He would have access to (permeate) but not reside in his own creation.

Thanks for your thoughts.....

 

[Sir Doom]

That is the most we can ever do, Though some people are restricted in their thinking to what their religion demands of them.

Yes, that is unfortunate. Luckily, I'm what you might call, 'religiously malleable'.

I do not restrict my thoughts of creation to humanity or this world.
However that situation is the most relevant to us now... but that may not always be the case.

Yeah, I suppose I misspoke a bit there. It isn't that I think humanity is the only thing god has created, its just that its the only thing I can be sure god has created. Its sort of the default thing that sets 'a god' apart from 'my god'.

May be we and Our world have a part to play in the scheme of things, that we are yet unaware of.

I believe it.

It is thought that God lives outside and is not restricted by our time and space.

I wouldn't say, 'not restricted by', rather 'unencumbered by'.

That being the case the particular plane he lives on could also be fully populated.

This sort of depends on what you mean by 'plane'. In the most figurative sense, I would assume that whatever god's existence is like it is very much unlike our own existence and could qualify as 'another plane of existence' in that sense if nothing else. Of course it might be literally true as well, though I don't like to think of gods in those terms, usually. Not that there is anything wrong with doing so.

That gels with my remark above.

It totally does!

I did not give a meaning to the quesation...If God and "This" creation live in different time and spaces they could be of quite different physical size, either larger or smaller. ( even we can build structures larger than ourselves)
Gods abilities would seem to be infinite in relation to this universe, so that little of his potential need be invested in it. It might be only of minor interest, but interest nevertheless.

I generally assume that gods are in complete control of their physical appearance and however it is they choose to manifest is by design. Thus, size and shape are sort of like sweatshirt and t-shirt to god. So, lets say trivial if not irrelevant.

That is only one sense... If his own plane of existence is populated by other "beings" similar to himself, he could no doubt use other resources with in this one.

Hehe, yes that was a bit of joke. I believe there are tons of gods out there and I assume that our god is quite interested in what they are doing.

In all the above scenarios... I would see a greater Creation in which God resides and is native to. He would have access to (permeate) but not reside in his own creation.

Yeah, this is where you and I diverge I think. I really don't think gods (especially not ours specifically) had much at all to do with creating the universe itself. Not that there is anything wrong with thinking that. I just prefer gods to be much more restricted in their scope.

Thanks for your thoughts.....

Thank you for your questions!

 

[ratikala]

dear prabhu ji

Hi,

@Ratikala: Thanks for your post. That was the last part of the full post and i am glad that some are benefitted by it.

:namaste

I have also heard it, but I am not sure of the source. Its a very valid theme based on fact that GOD has different names. As per the Vedanta school of though, Ishvara refers to the Paramatma who is in complete control of material world as he pervades in EVERY THING in there (Ref: Ishavasya Upanishad, Shukla Yajur Veda).

teribly well known bhajan you would know it if you heard it ,

I think much favored by ghandi ji , and of course all ram bhaktas :namaste
with all due respects ishvara in this instance is refering to god the supreme being , supreme controler as opposed to paramatma being the the supreme or higher individual soul residing within ... parama ; higest atma ; individual spirit or soul .
paramatma is that of the lord which pervades every thing , but ishvara the lord in his fullness .


or may be you were thinking of parameshwara !

no matter , the bhajan simply shows one god as having many names

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Are not Tibetan monks constantly reciting the infinite names of God till the end of time.

 

[ratikala]

dear terry ,

Are not Tibetan monks constantly reciting the infinite names of God till the end of time.

each chants their traditions chosen name of god , ( each tradition favoring a different aspect of that one infinate) they will chant that name untill they reach enlightenment , beliving that when one becomes absorbed in the chanting of that mantra containing the name and quality of that divinity that one will gain the protection of that aspect and by absorbtion and blessing that they wll acheive buddhahood or the atainment of that buddhas realm .:namaste

one beautifull term used for the chanting of mantra is 'mind protector' as it protects the mind from mundane preocupation and helps the mind focus on the object of devotion

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

=Terrywoodenpic;3156669]Some questions about God?

Does God live vicariously through his Creation? Ishwar pervades this creation.


Does God live a life, separate to that of his creation? Ishwar Does not Live the way we do, It is Life and death itself.

Does God have companions outside of his creation? It is Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent, There is no outside this creation, if these is, then She pervades it also.

Does God have interests outside of his creation? Again he is not like us humans whose mind changes and who looses interest ect.


Is God's Creation larger than himself? No

Does God's creation include anything that he did not create himself? No

Is our God's creation established within a larger creation not of his making? No

 

[Orias]

Some questions about God?


Does God live vicariously through his Creation?


Does God live a life, separate to that of his creation?
Does God have companions outside of his creation?
Does God have interests outside of his creation?


Is God's Creation larger than himself?
Does God's creation include anything that he did not create himself?
Is our God's creation established within a larger creation not of his making?

I think in a way we are his "telescopes" sometimes.

I think that there are things that exist that were not created but I believe they are still apart of him.

And I believe there is another entirely different realization beyond all Gods existence as well as ours.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I think in a way we are his "telescopes" sometimes.

I think that there are things that exist that were not created but I believe they are still apart of him.

And I believe there is another entirely different realization beyond all Gods existence as well as ours.

Perhaps like this?

Big fleas have little fleas,
Upon their backs to bite 'em,
And little fleas have lesser fleas,
and so, ad infinitum.

 

[chinu]

Does God live vicariously through his Creation?

In subconscious state of affair,

Does God live a life, separate to that of his creation?

In conscious state of affair.

Does God have companions outside of his creation?

No, he's alone..very alone...always enjoying his conscious state of affair..always in unbreakble peace, joy and pleasure beyond the limits of time and space.

Does God have interests outside of his creation?

Subconsciously.

Is God's Creation larger than himself?

He's just 1% larger than his total creation.

Does God's creation include anything that he did not create himself?

No

Is our God's creation established within a larger creation not of his making?

Actually.. i always use to talk about the God who has created the creation... for the creativity of your above said God

 

[Orias]

Perhaps like this?

Big fleas have little fleas,
Upon their backs to bite 'em,
And little fleas have lesser fleas,
and so, ad infinitum.

Ah yes, I like to call this M-Theory.

 

[Pegg]

I think that there are answers to these questions found in the bible so im going to try to find verses that answer each question.

Does God live vicariously through his Creation?

this scripture suggests that each living thing is an independent creation...not one that God exists in.
1Cor 15:38 but God gives it a body just as it has pleased him, and to each of the seeds its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same flesh, but there is one of mankind, and there is another flesh of cattle, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish. 40 And there are heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies; but the glory of the heavenly bodies is one sort, and that of the earthly bodies is a different sort. 41 The glory of the sun is one sort, and the glory of the moon is another, and the glory of the stars is another; in fact, star differs from star in glory.

Does God live a life, separate to that of his creation?

I think these verses show that we do live separate independent lives...God is said to exist in heaven, and he watches man from afar:

Psalm 11:4 Jehovah is in his holy temple. Jehovah—in the heavens is his throne. His own eyes behold, his own beaming eyes examine the sons of men

Hebrews 4:13 And there is not a creation that is not manifest to his sight, but all things are naked and openly exposed to the eyes of him with whom we have an accounting

Does God have companions outside of his creation?
Does God have interests outside of his creation?

if you mean, outside his 'physical' creation, then certainly, yes.
Job 1:6 Now it came to be the day when the sons of the [true] God entered to take their station before Jehovah

Psalm 103:20 Bless Jehovah, O YOU angels of his, mighty in power, carrying out his word, By listening to the voice of his word

Luke 1:19 In reply the angel said to him: “I am Ga′bri·el, who stands near before God

Matthew 18:10 See to it that YOU men do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell YOU that their angels in heaven always behold the face of my Father who is in heaven

Does God's creation include anything that he did not create himself?

the scritpures reveal that God is the source of the power, but Jesus is the means by which God created all things
Colossians 1:15 He (Jesus) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him

Revelation 4:11 “You are worthy, Jehovah, even our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, because you created all things, and because of your will they existed and were created.”

Is our God's creation established within a larger creation not of his making?

i dont believe there is another universe...i think the universe we live in is the one and only, beyond that i believe is the spiritual world where God actually exists.

but who really knows? We know so little even about this universe...anything is possible.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Christian belief has inherited a whole Hierachy of Angels to make up the The Host of God. It would seem God has plenty of company in heaven

God lord of hosts (Hierarchy of angels)
Seraphim... Caretakers
Cherubim... Guards
Thrones... Elders
Dominions... Lords of lower angels
Virtues... control the heavenly bodies
Powers... keeper of concience and history
Principalities... educators and guardians
Archangels... Chief angels
Angels... Mostly messengers

To add to this is the whole company of Saints.

It is strange that no one has mentiond this in answer to my question.
In past days Christians knew the rank order of all the heavenly host and order for battle.

Most other religions have similar hosts in heaven.

 

[ratikala]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrywoodenpic
Does God live vicariously through his Creation?

In subconscious state of affair,

Quote:
Does God live a life, separate to that of his creation?

In conscious state of affair.

Quote:
Does God have companions outside of his creation?

No, he's alone..very alone...always enjoying his conscious state of affair..always in unbreakble peace, joy and pleasure beyond the limits of time and space.

Quote:
Does God have interests outside of his creation?

Subconsciously.

Quote:
Is God's Creation larger than himself?

He's just 1% larger than his total creation.

Quote:
Does God's creation include anything that he did not create himself?

No

Quote:
Does God's creation include anything that he did not create himself?

Actually.. i always use to talk about the God who has created the creation... for the creativity of your above said God [

dear prabhu ji's cninu and terry

this rases some inreresting questions ,

Does God live vicariously through his Creation?
In subconscious state of affair,

from a vaisnavas perspective I would say , yes subconciously in some beings , but conciously through others , for instance in the incarnations of visnu , he manifests in full conciousness to fullfill a set purpose .

Does God live a life, separate to that of his creation?
In conscious state of affair.

as we are a minute portion of his creation we are a part of his life in equaly minute proportion . his life is that of constant creation and destruction those cycles are a by product of creation , of his being .

Does God have companions outside of his creation?
No, he's alone..very alone...always enjoying his conscious state of affair..always in unbreakble peace, joy and pleasure beyond the limits of time and space.

here I agree he is ultimately alone , he is the supreme enjoyer he is 'sat cit ananda' eternaly blissfull and full of knowledge ,

symultaniously on a conventional level he is also acompanied by his own expansions and creation .

Does God have interests outside of his creation?
Subconsciously.

by saying yes subconciously is suggeresting that even his creation could be on a sub concious level , in that creation happens simply by god's being on the otherhand as god is all knowing all seeing I would prefer to say that god is aware of all creation and all that lay outside of creation , therefore his interests allso lay inside and outside of creation .
as the quality of god is omni present , omni potent and omnicient , I am not sure it is easy to use concious and unconcious as such terminoligy is more suited to describing our conciousness
god by his nature is doing what god does and creation is the product of his being so it could be said to be unconcious but as he is omnicient he is also concious at all times , so his interests (if we can think that way)are allso far reaching and strech beyond creation into infinity ,
yet he is not thinking , he just knows !

Is God's Creation larger than himself?
He's just 1% larger than his total creation.

I like it ,
......... yes god is allways just that little larger than creation , even just that little larger than the sum total of all pervious creations , as he is also the creations to come .:bow:

Does God's creation include anything that he did not create himself?
No

definatly have to second that no !

Does God's creation include anything that he did not create himself?
Actually.. i always use to talk about the God who has created the creation... for the creativity of your above said God

being that god I am talking about is the parameshwara the supreme being , he is the eternal , without begining and without end the , creator of all creations and the creator of individual gods responcible for the individual creations and the maininance there of ....
now it is for us of esch religion to understand which god we are worshiping and to understand that the true god by which ever name we know him , is the one eternal all knowing supreme being :namaste

 

[ratikala]

dear pegg ,

I think that there are answers to these questions found in the bible so im going to try to find verses that answer each question.

when I have a litle more time I would like to give comparable verses from vedic and buddhist texts , not to contest cristian texts but to illustrate that we are all seeing the same god but describing him through different traditions .

this scripture suggests that each living thing is an independent creation...not one that God exists in.
1Cor 15:38 but God gives it a body just as it has pleased him, and to each of the seeds its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same flesh, but there is one of mankind, and there is another flesh of cattle, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish. 40 And there are heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies; but the glory of the heavenly bodies is one sort, and that of the earthly bodies is a different sort. 41 The glory of the sun is one sort, and the glory of the moon is another, and the glory of the stars is another; in fact, star differs from star in glory.

yes , in very much the same way many buddhists accept that there is a seed often refered to as buddha seed or buddha nature , and that it resides in the material body which it is given for the purpose of gaining full enlightenment (knowledge of that buddha nature), and from the hindu perspective it is sescribed as paramatma the supreme soul which permiates all things and is of god , again it resides in the heart of the being , again it resides in man and it resides in all animal forms allthough all given bodies are of different qualities , a human birth being concidered most fortunate as we posess the discrimination to realise god .
simmilarly in buddhist and hindu cosmology there are levels of planets , realms and heavens where different beings reside , some having physical bodies some having heavenly or divine bodies .
there are then gods of each realm , but above that there is only one supreme being , one supreme god .

I think these verses show that we do live separate independent lives...God is said to exist in heaven, and he watches man from afar:

Psalm 11:4 Jehovah is in his holy temple. Jehovah—in the heavens is his throne. His own eyes behold, his own beaming eyes examine the sons of men

Hebrews 4:13 And there is not a creation that is not manifest to his sight, but all things are naked and openly exposed to the eyes of him with whom we have an accounting

as he is all knowing , all seing , he may reside allso in heaven but symultaniously pevade all existance , thus he is constantly active bestowing blessings upon us even whilst he resides in the heaven of all heavens .

if you mean, outside his 'physical' creation, then certainly, yes.
Job 1:6 Now it came to be the day when the sons of the [true] God entered to take their station before Jehovah

in your veiw could we not do this in this life time by surrendering to god ?

Psalm 103:20 Bless Jehovah, O YOU angels of his, mighty in power, carrying out his word, By listening to the voice of his word

Luke 1:19 In reply the angel said to him: “I am Ga′bri·el, who stands near before God

Matthew 18:10 See to it that YOU men do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell YOU that their angels in heaven always behold the face of my Father who is in heaven



the scritpures reveal that God is the source of the power, but Jesus is the means by which God created all things
Colossians 1:15 He (Jesus) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him

Revelation 4:11 “You are worthy, Jehovah, even our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, because you created all things, and because of your will they existed and were created.”



i dont believe there is another universe...i think the universe we live in is the one and only, beyond that i believe is the spiritual world where God actually exists.

but who really knows? We know so little even about this universe...anything is possible.

from both vedic and buddhist perspective there is much said about the cosmos which predates our scientific age which suggsets countless material universes presided over by the spiritual realms , this understanding only serves to illustrate the true magnitude of the lord , in that the more we learn , the more we understand the more we must revere the creator of countless worlds , countless universes , it is very hard for us to truely understand his infinate nature .

but however much we understand we can agree that he is wondorous :namaste