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Some questions about God?

Discussion in 'Theism' started by Terrywoodenpic, Nov 23, 2012.

  1. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    Some questions about God?


    Does God live vicariously through his Creation?


    Does God live a life, separate to that of his creation?
    Does God have companions outside of his creation?
    Does God have interests outside of his creation?


    Is God's Creation larger than himself?
    Does God's creation include anything that he did not create himself?
    Is our God's creation established within a larger creation not of his making?
     
  2. Madhuri

    Madhuri RF Goddess
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    My personal Hindu influenced view:

    Does God live vicariously through his Creation? Yes


    Does God live a life, separate to that of his creation?Everything that is is his creation and his creation is never separate from him. But yes, he does exist beyond just our universe as well as within it.

    Does God have companions outside of his creation? nothing is not himself. God is his own infinite companionship

    Does God have interests outside of his creation? any interest that is manifest is his own creation. He is the cause of all causes. There can be nothing before or independent therefore how can he ave an interest separate from his creation?


    Is God's Creation larger than himself? his creation is his own self, which is infinite

    Does God's creation include anything that he did not create himself? No. That is not logically possible if everything in existence is God himself

    Is our God's creation established within a larger creation not of his making? No. If something came before or independently, he would not be God by definition.
     
  3. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    Even if God is his own creation there could be other gods and other Creations.
    An infinity does not preclude another infinity.
     
  4. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    It is my understand that there exists nothing outside God's creation. It is the only one I know how to answer. It is learned from Bible reading.
     
  5. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    I cannot really answer your questions because they make some background assumptions about the nature of the gods that are not part of my theistic angle. Namely, assuming that the gods are separate from creation. To me, they are not. The gods are the world, and the world is the gods.
     
  6. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    I suspect people do not usually think in these terms about God.
    That in itself make the questions interesting to think about.

    It is easy to say that God is omni-everything so we can not think about it further.
    However the nature of God is not unthinkable, even if much may be unknowable. (there is a difference.)
    Some will hide behind scripture or tradition and won't even try.
     
    #6 Terrywoodenpic, Nov 23, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2012
  7. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    Your own assumptions beg their own questions.

    Are you saying you never think about the nature of your Gods?
    What about the rest of the universe.?
    If the Gods are the world, can they converse and interact with each other?
    how do they establish who does what?
    Can they have an individual identity?
     
  8. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    Bible quotes only take you so far, and never have covered the questions I put.
    It is not irreligious or blasphemous to think about the nature of God.
    To do so, stretches your imagination , perhaps to places it does not want to go.
     
  9. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    Think about the posability that there is more than one universe.?
    And more than one God?
    Would they have an interaction?
     
    #9 Terrywoodenpic, Nov 23, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2012
  10. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    The answer for me is God who has the name spelled YHWH and who is called Allah by very many people is The Most High. There exists nothing more, better, more real here in our universe or in any other universe. ALL things are created by The Most High. Better?
     
  11. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    So what does he do?
    How does he spend eternity?

    He can hardly concentrate eternity and all his immense abilities on a minor species, on a planet of a small solar system nearly lost on the spiral arm of a lesser galaxy in his universe.
    he must have other concerns?
     
  12. Super Universe

    Super Universe Defender of God

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    1) Yes.

    2) Hmm, very interesting, don't know.

    3) Nothing exists outside of His creation.

    4) Creation is still happening so, in a way, future universes, since they do not exist yet, are an idea of something that is currently outside of all creation but the idea itself remains inside creation.

    5) Not possible.

    6) Sort of. It depends on how you view the word creation. A man can throw paint blobs at a canvas and some consider that "creating". Only God creates, all other beings change what already exists, we mix and match, that's it. Now, there are random elements built in to the universe and into beings so someone can come up with a unique mixture of materials that has never been seen before in all the universe but that is not creation because they did not form the particles and atoms from nothing that they used to assemble it.

    7) No.
     
  13. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    I being a believer in Christ the Son of God cannot believe human kind is a "minor species". If I did not know Joshua I would say we are minor, almost nothing at all. I have met Joshua and now I cannot believe I am nothing at all. Do you know who Joshua is?

    God's other concerns? I am sure. I do not know what they are.
     
  14. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    Hah, not at all. Just that the way your particular questions were phrased do not apply well to certain theological viewpoints, such as my own.

    For the first, I don't concern myself much with the sacred outside of my backyard and everyday experience. I center on gratitude and honoring what is right around me instead of "way out there" so to speak.

    I don't claim to know all the nuances of how various aspects of reality (the gods) interact with each other, but we can learn a lot from science. We can learn about the relationships between Ocean, Cloud, and Rain for instance in the hydrologic cycle. The purpose of each aspect of reality is intrinsic to its nature (similar to animism). You can say they have individual identities - as I'm definitely more of a hard polytheist - but the various aspects all relate to each other. There's several different ways I look at things overall, as whatever I come up with is a map of the territory.
     
  15. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    So you are talking about "Local" Gods Rather than Gods of the universe. Much as the Druids and early Greeks and Romans.?
     
  16. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    Compared to thje universe and eternity, we are very small indeed. But not it seems insignificant.
    Do you have trouble speculating that we might share God and the afterlife with numerous other species that have gone before, or are still to come?

    The Joshua I know was the son of Nun and one of Moses spies sent to search out the Promised Land. I am sure there are, and have been many others.....
     
  17. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    Joshua is Jesus' name before they changed it. I would not have changed it. I do not know who Jesus is. Joshua leads God's people to the promise after Moses. Joshua Messiah leads God's people to the promise after YHWH. It's a mental thing.
     
  18. Krishna Chaitanya

    Krishna Chaitanya krishnadas

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    Hi,

    That's a thoughtful question for any sincere seeker! I will answer mostly based on logic and the ideas described in the oldest scriptures (i.e. the Vedas - as there are 1, what I am associated with from quite some time and 2, they contain lot more details available about these questions).

    It may be long, but I am positive that it will help you develop more understanding below esp. if you are open minded.

    Firstly, I assume that 'his creation' is referring to what we are experiencing as reality currently. i.e. the material creation. 'We' refers to all living beings in the material creation consisting of several multidimensional universes (our earthly beings perceive only three spatial dimensions plus one time dimension). But there exists a creation in a different realm (transcendental reality) which is beyond all hyperspaces of material universes - i.e the spiritual creation.

    Just FYI: I am a follower of Bhagavad Gita and am convinced that the same almighty GOD is described in the scriptures - both Abrahamic and dharmic. These scriptures also mention that his glory is unlimited. He is not limited to religions, regions, gender etc.

    The dharmic as well as abrahamic conceptions talk about it. The Vedas give a detailed explanation of WHO HE IS, WHAT DOES HE DO, WHERE DOES HE LIVE, WHAT DOES HE LOOK LIKE, WHOM DOES HE EXPAND INTO AND WHY, WHY DOES HE CREATE etc. The abrahamic scriptures do not deny a spiritual form for him (they reject only the materialistic conception). Further, some conceptions describe only his impersonal all pervading potency, but the true scholars know the fact that if GOD is absolute, the he should be both PERSONAL as well as IMPERSONAL, as there is no meaning to completeness otherwise. If you believe in abrahamic evidence, you might want to read the following. They mention the personal form of God: "under His feet" (Exodus 24:10); "inscribed with the finger of God" (Exodus 31:18); "the hand of the Lord" (Exodus 9:3); "the eyes of the Lord" (Genesis 38:7); "the ears of the Lord" (Numbers 11:1). Ezekiel (1:26) describes God as having "the semblance of a human form." Such phrases permeate the biblical literature. Similarly, in the Quran there are references to "the face of your Lord" (055:027), "under My eye" (020:039), "under our eyes" (052:048) & (054:014), and "the hand of Allah" (048:010), (038:075) & (039:067).

    The Vedic scriptures also indicate his personal identity: Vedanta-sutras (1.1.2, 1.1.5, 'Rasovaisah'), Mundaka Upanishad (1.1.6-7, 1.1.9), 'God in human like form' Bhagavad Gita (9.11, 10.8, 7.7) 'multiple potencies of him' Svetasvatara Upanishad (1.1, 5.4, 5.5, 6.6), 'eko bahunam' Katha Upanishad (2.2.13, 1.2.22), YajurVeda (N.Sukta v.5), Rg Veda Samhita, Mandala 10, Sukta 90, Maha Upanishad: I-1-4 and many more.

    He is happy with some one calling him Jehovah (the self-existent one), ELOHIM (the powerful and mighty), Allah (God - referring to Generator, Operator and destroyer - describing the glory that is within our capacity to understand), Krishna (the all attractive one - containing all the potency in full, namely power, beauty, knowledge, wealth, fame, renunciation), Vishnu (the maintainer of creation), Rama (the supreme enjoyer) etc. All these names describe his various qualities and which ever is most appropriate for our level of understanding and conviction, we call him by that name and he reciprocates accordingly. It is only the people with incomplete, partial and bogus understanding of religion promote extremism and hatred, but the supreme lord is all loving.

    Relation to traffic controller analogy: The same traffic controller is in office, he is called xyz by children, abc by relatives, qwe by wife etc. etc. So, its a completely personal relationship each having a sweet flavor (rasa) in itself in terms of the exchange between them.

    When it comes to relation with God, we cannot call anyone and everyone as GOD. Some may be godly and saintly but not GOD. At the same time GOD expands into multiple forms in the same level of truth (tattva in sanskrit) and each of those forms are qualified to be addressed as GOD (avatar in sanskrit). I guess its enough detail for now :). Let me know if you have more questions.

    Thanks for the nice question and wish you best regards for your spiritual practice. Hope that some will benefit to all of you... coz it took me few hrs to compile it.

    Chaitanya
     
    #18 Krishna Chaitanya, Nov 24, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
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  19. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    Well, some of them have domains or are patrons of things that extend beyond planet earth, but I don't concern myself with that. I also can't say if the gods I experience whose domains would hypothetically extend beyond planet earth actually do, because I haven't exactly visited any other planets. >_>

    Some deities really are tied to the landscape, though. The spirit of a specific river only exists where that river flows (the otherworlds notwithstanding). I float back and forth between whether or not I regard many of the classical Pagan deities (e.g., Odin, Amaterasu, Hestia, and the like) to be local or regional rather than global. I've had experiences which support both interpretations. I don't have it all figured out by a long shot and do not expect to in my lifetime. What's important is to find a way of working that allows me to relate to what is around me and experience it with joy and gratitude. :D
     
  20. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    Thank you for Your reply It is good to know Others "Can" think about these things.
    As you have seen, that in most of the posts so far, people find thinking about God very difficult, as it eats into their pre-visualisation of him. It is like asking your boss personal questions.

    However yours is a very old religion that has defined many difficult questions.

    Most Christians will say what ever is in the "Bible" Just as will Muslims will say about the Quran. They forget that the relationship is between them and God. It is not about a particular religion and God.
    Religions can be one of many paths toward God. But is a personal journey that you must take...

    My questions were only an aid to thought. The answers them selves are not as important as the ideas.

    I am sure you had to clear a few paths on the way to your answers.
    So thank you....:)
    The best way to learn is often to teach.
     
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