Christians, why do you hate Gays?

[dgirl1986]

Are you talking about expecting God to appear right before you to chastize you? The God I'm familiar with usually works through prophets.

I do not expect him to appear before me. As I said before he can use events and the word to speak to people. In my case he used two seperate people who knew nothing about my situation at those times to come to be with a verse from the bible that was completely applicable to my situation.

That is a message.

 

[Drolefille]

The second, that women should stick to women until they are ready to get married. That would basically slash disease, unwanted pregnancies, and general ...ahem...."Wear and tear" down to near zero.

Wear and tear? Seriously.

That's incredibly insulting. You don't want wear and tear, you have a hand, go use it. As if women are objects.

 

[Me Myself]

we're speaking about adults, not children.
And an adult parent who tries to control their children is not showing love. They may think they are, but they are wrong.

One does not have to think "I hate them" to show hatred. One shows hatred and love through actions, and being abusive is hatred.

I am not saying he is showing love, I am saying he loves them.

Love and hatred are emotions. Showing them or not has nothing to do with feeling them.

I can hate someone and not act on it (okay, maybe not me, It´s hard for me to hate people :angel2 that doesn´t change I hate said person.

Hating is a feeling, where you feel glee from the person´s suffering.

 

[dgirl1986]

The second, that women should stick to women until they are ready to get married. That would basically slash disease, unwanted pregnancies, and general ...ahem...."Wear and tear" down to near zero. Lesbians have an extremely low STD rate. (As opposed to their male counterparts who have a much higher than average, especially with specific ones like Syphilis, where they account for 60% of all known cases, that's just facts, no bullying intended).

Lesbians have the same kind of relationship problems as any other kin dof relationship. I am seriously not sure what to make of your suggestion/point of view. I think if a woman was to really enjoy being with another woman, she would probably not see a need for a man unless she wants to have kids.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

I do not expect him to appear before me. As I said before he can use events and the word to speak to people. In my case he used two seperate people who knew nothing about my situation at those times to come to be with a verse from the bible that was completely applicable to my situation.

That is a message.

I've heard of him doing such things. If you're not afraid of him actually answering you might want to try asking him to do that for you.

 

[dgirl1986]

Wear and tear? Seriously.

That's incredibly insulting. You don't want wear and tear, you have a hand, go use it. As if women are objects.

If you are having "relations" with another human being, there is bound to be wear and tear or some sort. Although that term really makes me cringe.

 

[Shermana]

Well there is a verse that says if a man lies with a woman who is not betrothed or married he must marry her for he has violated her. later translations actually state this as rape, the victim must marry the man because he violated her.

So I dont see why the same logic could not be applied to a verse that later became about homosexuality?

That verse is extremely controversial, I believe the NLT translates it correctly that it's more about seduction, as a repeat of the command in Exodus 22:16. (Most of Deuteronomy is a repeat of earlier verses, and the new commands may be suspect as post-Ezran changes).

Exodus 22:16 "If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife.

The problem word there is "Taphas" which is "To take", which has the same implications of English as either being "He took her by the hand" or "He took her into the alley". It's quite a tricky translation issue.

Even With that said, there's no reason at all to assume that "Lie with a woman" means "Rape a woman" in every instance.

 

[dgirl1986]

I've heard of him doing such things. If you're not afraid of him actually answering you might want to try asking him to do that for you.

You know what the funny thing is? I asked for his help for years. Nothing.

I step away from Christanity and BAM I had 2 messages in the span of like a month haha.

 

[Drolefille]

I am not saying he is showing love, I am saying he loves them.

Love and hatred are emotions. Showing them or not has nothing to do with feeling them.

I can hate someone and not act on it (okay, maybe not me, It´s hard for me to hate people :angel2 that doesn´t change I hate said person.

Hating is a feeling, where you feel glee from the person´s suffering.

No that is not hate, that is Schadenfreude.

I do not believe that you can be abusive to someone or try to control them and love them at the same time. Maybe you love them sometimes, but you cannot be loving them when you're being abusive. Otherwise you'd stop being abusive.
Your assumption that he "loves" me, is just that. And frankly if that's love, it's only one more example why that "god" isn't worth crap.

If you are having "relations" with another human being, there is bound to be wear and tear or some sort. Although that term really makes me cringe.

Yeah no. Ok look there's "emotional" "wear and tear" - that would still exist, there's "physical" "wear and tear" and that would also still exist. The assumption that women should only have sex with women until they settle down with men to reduce "wear and tear" is basically saying that they should have tight vaginas for their newly settled spouses. So women are just objects for the men, because the important part of getting married is how much wear and tear her vagina has.

And no I really won't buy that this wasn't coded to be EXACTLY what he meant.

 

[dgirl1986]

That verse is extremely controversial, I believe the NLT translates it correctly that it's more about seduction, as a repeat of the command in Exodus 22:16.

Exodus 22:16 "If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife.

The problem word there is "Taphas" which is "To take", which has the same implications of English as either being "He took her by the hand" or "He took her into the alley". It's quite a tricky translation issue.

Even With that said, there's no reason at all to assume that "Lie with a woman" means "Rape a woman" in every instance.

I think it depends on which translation came in what order.

http://niv.scripturetext.com/deuteronomy/22.htm

New International Version (©1984)
If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered,


New Living Translation (©2007)
"Suppose a man has intercourse with a young woman who is a virgin but is not engaged to be married. If they are discovered,

English Standard Version (©2001)
“If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found,

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"If a man finds a girl who is a virgin, who is not engaged, and seizes her and lies with her and they are discovered,

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
This is what you must do when a man rapes a virgin who isn't engaged. When the crime is discovered,

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
If a man find a young woman that is a virgin, who is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

American King James Version
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

American Standard Version
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, that is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

Douay-Rheims Bible
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, who is not espoused, and taking her, lie with her, and the matter come to judgment :

Darby Bible Translation
If a man find a damsel, a virgin, who is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found,

English Revised Version
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

Webster's Bible Translation
If a man shall find a damsel that is a virgin, who is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

World English Bible
If a man find a lady who is a virgin, who is not pledged to be married, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
Young's Literal Translation
'When a man findeth a damsel, a virgin who is not betrothed, and hath caught her, and lain with her, and they have been found,

http://niv.scripturetext.com/deuteronomy/22.htm

 

[Drolefille]

You know what the funny thing is? I asked for his help for years. Nothing.

I step away from Christanity and BAM I had 2 messages in the span of like a month haha.

Yeah I'm fairly certain I never prayed as hard as when I wanted faith. Didn't get it.

Closest thing I've gotten to a message lately has most definitely not been from anyone named Yahweh.

 

[romana03]

Lesbians have the same kind of relationship problems as any other kin dof relationship. I am seriously not sure what to make of your suggestion/point of view. I think if a woman was to really enjoy being with another woman, she would probably not see a need for a man unless she wants to have kids.

Exactly. I just don't even know how to respond to this part of the conversation. And even with the children thing, no actual relationship is necessary. A friend who is willing to help out and a syringe... :rainbow1:

 

[-Peacemaker-]

You know what the funny thing is? I asked for his help for years. Nothing.

I step away from Christanity and BAM I had 2 messages in the span of like a month haha.

I've asked him for things for years and have suffered to some degree because I haven't gotten the answers I was looking for. What I've noticed however is that I've always had enough to get through the day. I may not know how I'll make for 50 more years or whatever I have left but I remember the words of Jesus which say to only stay focused on the present day and to not worry about I'll get by tommorrow.

 

[Me Myself]

No that is not hate, that is Schadenfreude

that is hate. You hate someone and want that specific person to feel pain because you feel glee when something horrible happens to said person.

to "hate" someone is to want to see him/her in pain. That is hate.

I do not believe that you can be abusive to someone or try to control them and love them at the same time. Maybe you love them sometimes, but you cannot be loving them when you're being abusive. Otherwise you'd stop being abusive.

With that I agree. but it gets more complicated in this specific case.

Your assumption that he "loves" me, is just that. And frankly if that's love, it's only one more example why that "god" isn't worth crap.

I was talking about the hypothetical dad case when I said that

I cannot know if he loves you.

 

[dgirl1986]

I've asked him for things for years and have suffered to some degree because I haven't gotten the answers I was looking for. What I've noticed however is that I've always had enough to get through the day. I may not know how I'll make for 50 more years or whatever I have left but I remember the words of Jesus which say to only stay focused on the present day and to not worry about I'll get by tommorrow.

Thats great for you but it didnt help me at all and I didnt have the means to cope. Leaving christianity is probably the best thing I did.

 

[Shermana]

I think it depends on which translation came in what order.

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Notice the King James translation, it says "Lay hold on her", the word itself is "Take", which by English definition also means "Lay hold on". The word Taphas does not necessarily mean "Seize by force" as some dictionaries claim, this can be easily dispelled by looking at the way its used. It CAN mean take by force, just like how I could say "The police took him to jail" versus "I took her to the movies". The concept is the same in English.

Again, I strongly suspect its a repeat of Exodus 22:16 considering how similar it is.

 

[dgirl1986]

Yeah I'm fairly certain I never prayed as hard as when I wanted faith. Didn't get it.

Closest thing I've gotten to a message lately has most definitely not been from anyone named Yahweh.

I tried really hard for about 11 years.

The messages were literally when I started looking at paganism. First person send me a verse and the second person was a random door knocker lol. I just laughed.

 

[Shermana]

Wear and tear? Seriously.

That's incredibly insulting. You don't want wear and tear, you have a hand, go use it. As if women are objects.

Well, good luck convincing most men to stop caring about a woman's purity for relationships and marriage. Ask 10 men if they'd prefer a woman with 3 partners or 300 for a wife, let me know your findings.

You'd be surprised just how many women don't mind being objectified (And seem to enjoy it) but that's for another thread, we're getting off topic.

 

[Drolefille]

no bullying intended).

Bull. Your post is insulting.

 

[dgirl1986]

Notice the King James translation, it says "Lay hold on her", the word itself is "Take", which by English definition also means "Lay hold on". The word Taphas does not necessarily mean "Seize by force" as some dictionaries claim, this can be easily dispelled by looking at the way its used. It CAN mean take by force, just like how I could say "The police took him to jail" versus "I took her to the movies". The concept is the same in English.

Again, I strongly suspect its a repeat of Exodus 22:16 considering how similar it is.

That is the problem with the bible, so many translations and sometimes there are varying meanings to one verse. No wonder people are confused.

I would take Lay hold on, take, seize etc to mean the same thing. Force. Its all about interpretation, there are other verses that imply without stating.