There are no polytheists in the West.

[MoonWater]

call them whatever suits your fancy. use whaever definition pleases you. It doesn't change my point about the role they truly play in one's life.

I edited my post to add a question asking precisely about this.

Why do you think the impact of our gods in our lives or the role they play is lessened or less important just because we look to them as mentors rather than masters?
Why do you think they have no effect on the course our life takes?

 

[Riverwolf]

call them whatever suits your fancy. use whaever definition pleases you. It doesn't change my point about the role they truly play in one's life.

That "point" is wrong, as has been demonstrated.

 

[Me Myself]

Psalm 19:7 "The law of the LORD is perfect, reviving the soul. The statutes of the LORD are trustworthy, making wise the simple'


The deal the Christian God offers is simple. Trade one's own life for the life he has for us. That means we give up some things that we might planned for our own life in exchange for his plans . That includes following his laws but is not exclusive to it. He also an individual plan for each of us. I believe even his laws are for my own good and for the good of those around me. He asks for faith even if I don't have complete picture of what his plans are for me.If I'm going to give up all that he asks me to and trust him with everything I have then he's going to actually provide something better if he is indeed benevolent and actually cares about me. I serve him because I believe he loves me and that he has and continues to demonstrate it in practical ways in my life. I want to know a God like that. If he didn't offer the deal that I talked about and just gave orders he would qualify as a dictator and perhaps a tyrrant. No I would not serve him if he just gave orders and would leave me twisting in the wind when I really needed him. I have no use for that kind of relationship with any god. If the Christian God didn't offer a better way I would do as most people do: exactly what I want.I would trust myself just like everyone else. And if I felt like the company of the supernatural I might even start gabbing away with Shiva or Satan or whoever else I could find that didn't criticize and/or place an imposition the plans that I had for myself.

Well, then that evidences it.

You "serve" your God because doing so serves yourself.

As you well said, you serve God because you see this better for YOURSELF. You see the sacrifices that you do as worthy FOR YOURSELF in the long run.

There is nothing wrong with this. It is precisely the attitude one should have for worship.

You have that attitude towards your three gods, we also have that attitude towards our gods.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

I edited my post to add a question asking precisely about this.

Why do you think the impact of our gods in our lives or the role they play is lessened or less important just because we look to them as mentors rather than masters?
Why do you think they have no effect on the course our life takes?

Just out of curiosity, do you call all of your pals that give you good advice "gods" or just the ones that are spiritual entities? I already know that the answer is "no". I suspect that bestowing titles like "god" upon beings that, practically speaking, play a role nearly identical to any one of our respected friends is more about satifying one's desire to practice a religion and tap into the supernatural than anything else.

 

[Shermana]

There is a difference in Biblical terminology between "a god" and "one's god" in the posessive. The difference is clear in Psalm 136:2 and other passages with the same phrase: "god of the gods". Here, with "Elohei Ha-Elohim", Elohei implies that "the gods" have "a god". "The gods' god" is another way of translating it. "god of" and "a god" are two different concepts.

Angels are in fact called "gods". However, this does not make them "your god". It is similar to the issue of Henotheism vs Polytheism.

 

[Riverwolf]

Just out of curiosity, do you call all of your pals that give you good advice "gods" or just the ones that are spiritual entities? I already know that the answer is "no". I suspect that bestowing titles like "god" upon beings that, practically speaking, play a role nearly identical to any one of our respected friends is more about satifying one's desire to practice a religion and tap into the supernatural than anything else.

A suspicion (that's false, BTW) based on what, exactly?

 

[MoonWater]

Just out of curiosity, do you call all of your pals that give you good advice "gods" or just the ones that are spiritual entities? I already know that the answer is "no". I suspect that bestowing titles like "god" upon beings that, practically speaking, play a role nearly identical to any one of our respected friends is more about satifying one's desire to practice a religion and tap into the supernatural than anything else.

So you're just going to ignore my questions then?

And no the role is not identical. If it were I would have no need for the gods. My gods help me to look deep inside myself and into the spiritual recesses and aspects of the universe, learning, exploring, and discovering things that my human friends and teachers would never be able to help me in.

Why do you insist on belittling our gods simply because we don't define them or look to them in the same manner that you do? What gives you the all encompassing authority on what a god is or what role they play in our lives?

 

[-Peacemaker-]

A suspicion (that's false, BTW) based on what, exactly?

Based on the fact that almost every human seems to have the desire to to reach out to the spiritual and supernatural, perhaps even reach out to their creator. We're a race that has alway sought a relationship with the supernatural and experience a spiritual life. Rationalism, and science don't provide an outlet for such desires.

 

[Riverwolf]

Based on the fact that almost every human seems to have the desire to to reach out to the spiritual and supernatural, perhaps even reach out to their creator. We're a race that has alway sought a relationship with the supernatural and experience a spiritual life. Rationalism, and science don't provide an outlet for such desires.

What does that have to do with whether or not we're following Gods?

 

[-Peacemaker-]

There is a difference in Biblical terminology between "a god" and "one's god" in the posessive. The difference is clear in Psalm 136:2 and other passages with the same phrase: "god of the gods". Here, with "Elohei Ha-Elohim", Elohei implies that "the gods" have "a god". "The gods' god" is another way of translating it. "god of" and "a god" are two different concepts.

Angels are in fact called "gods". However, this does not make them "your god". It is similar to the issue of Henotheism vs Polytheism.

I won't pretend to be a Hebrew scholar. I guess I appreciate your efforts to educate us on ancient Hebrew, but you've got a long way to go to convince me that you a self taught "scholar" is capable of rendering accurate translations

 

[-Peacemaker-]

What does that have to do with whether or not we're following Gods?

Who here is actually FOLLOWING a god/God here? All the self described polytheists keep telling that their "gods" simply provide them with enlightenment and wisdom. They don't actually lead anyone anywhere apart from suggesting the best path to take. A suggestion which must first meet with the approval of oneself if it's to be followed

 

[Curious George]

Hey there KingoftheJungle just thought I would ask again while you were online. Santaria practitioners should fit your definition and they are in the West.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Hey there KingoftheJungle just thought I would ask again while you were online. Santaria practitioners should fit your definition and they are in the West.

From what I know, their religious practices are imported from Africa. We have African religious practices that have been able to sneak their way into the West through the slave trade and been handed down to people that are in most cases probably their decendents. If their religious practices are as you say, it basically further supports my contention

 

[Shermana]

I won't pretend to be a Hebrew scholar. I guess I appreciate your efforts to educate us on ancient Hebrew, but you've got a long way to go to convince me that you a self taught "scholar" is capable of rendering accurate translations

Every translation says "god of the gods".

 

[Riverwolf]

Who here is actually FOLLOWING a god/God here? All the self described polytheists keep telling that their "gods" simply provide them with enlightenment and wisdom. They don't actually lead anyone anywhere apart from suggesting the best path to take

That's what Gods do.

And yes, I saw the edit. My point still stands.

 

[MoonWater]

Who here is actually FOLLOWING a god/God here? All the self described polytheists keep telling that their "gods" simply provide them with enlightenment and wisdom. They don't actually lead anyone anywhere apart from suggesting the best path to take. A suggestion which must first meet with the approval of oneself if it's to be followed

yeah, and... how does that make them "not gods"? How does that suddenly translate to us having less hope or trust in them than you do in yours?

 

[-Peacemaker-]

That's what Gods do.

And yes, I saw the edit. My point still stands.

What's the difference then between the spiritual beings you call "gods" and your human friends that you have deep respect and admiration for who play the role of teacher and mentor in your life?

 

[McBell]

Who here is actually FOLLOWING a god/God here? All the self described polytheists keep telling that their "gods" simply provide them with enlightenment and wisdom. They don't actually lead anyone anywhere apart from suggesting the best path to take. A suggestion which must first meet with the approval of oneself if it's to be followed

You must have a most interesting and unique definition of the word "guide".

 

[McBell]

What's the difference then between the spiritual beings you call "gods" and your human friends that you have deep respect and admiration for who play the role of teacher and mentor in your life?

What is the difference between yours?

 

[-Peacemaker-]

yeah, and... how does that make them "not gods"? How does that suddenly translate to us having less hope or trust in them than you do in yours?

Trust is not a feeling. Trust is demonstrated by action. Do you blindly follow every suggestion your "gods" give you? Are you willing to forsake your own understanding of the events around you and ignore your five and take a leap of faith because your "god" says that the smart bet. Would you as one person be willing to take on an entire army because your "god" told you that victory would be assured, even though you couldn't possibly see how exactly you would be victorious against such odds? If the answer to those questions is "yes" you might actually be trusting your "god" with the kind of trust I'm talking about