The Problem of Complexity

[JustWondering2]

I agree Agnostic. And "fountains of the deep " do you mean underground water? If so that's a whopping < .3 % of all the water on Earth!



Do you have any evidence of this? Other than your Bible?

 

[Agnostic75]

I believe it is possible that when the fountains of the deep broke forth there was great volcanic and geological activity and new mountains were formed as plates moved and deep ocean basins formed as they cooled.

But what about the ways that fossils and sediments are sorted? Volcanic and geological activity could not have accounted for the ways that fossils and sediments are sorted.

 

[outhouse]

In this modern age im supprise we have to be respectful to those this far off realities grid.

To believe in this magic one has to throw so much science, common knowledge and logic and reason that really it should be a crime.

 

[Photonic]

Other than your Bible?

Usually not.

 

[painted wolf]

In this modern age im supprise we have to be respectful to those this far off realities grid.

Modern civil society means even if you vehemently disagree with someone you should still treat them with respect. Otherwise you look like a jerk and they only double down on their position.

To believe in this magic one has to throw so much science, common knowledge and logic and reason that really it should be a crime.

Everyone believes in something silly...
But insulting people for it rarely makes them want to consider they may be mistaken. We have evolved to defend our positions from the attacks of others.

I love this article... these guys may not be highbrow comedy, but they make some excellent layman's explanations of things that are funny as heck to read.
5 Logical Fallacies That Make You Wrong More Than You Think | Cracked.com

wa:do

 

[painted wolf]

I believe it is possible that when the fountains of the deep broke forth there was great volcanic and geological activity and new mountains were formed as plates moved and deep ocean basins formed as they cooled.

So, you believe that god can bypass the laws of physics when he chooses? In the form of miracles.

wa:do

 

[Photonic]

So, you believe that god can bypass the laws of physics when he chooses? In the form of miracles.

wa:do

That would be falsifiable though.

 

[painted wolf]

That would be falsifiable though.

How so?

wa:do

 

[Photonic]

How so?

wa:do

Measurable effect.

 

[painted wolf]

Measurable effect.

You measure the effect of God circumventing physics?

wa:do

 

[Photonic]

You measure the effect of God circumventing physics?

wa:do

I'm pretty sure it would be noticeable if something suddenly started ignoring physics.

 

[Alceste]

I'm pretty sure it would be noticeable if something suddenly started ignoring physics.

I perceive things ignoring physics all the time.

:rainbow1:

 

[Photonic]

I perceive things ignoring physics all the time.

:rainbow1:

Threads over.


:beach:

 

[painted wolf]

I'm pretty sure it would be noticeable if something suddenly started ignoring physics.

And this sort of absolute assertion is different from javajo's how?
Other than the fact that javajo was thoughtful enough to preface with "I believe".

wa:do

 

[javajo]

Yes there has been events such as you have described that happened over long time periods, billions of years. Do you know anything about Physics or Geology and how hot the Earth would still be if those events took place in such a short time frame as you suggest only thousands of years ago? Look at the facts man! The laws of physics (Gods laws) do not change!! The goat herders that wrote the Bible had no concept of science or even of Geology or of anything outside their surroundings. Even if the Bible was inspired by God himself, do you really thing that men of that day and time would have any under standing of "Billions of years"? They wrote in terms they understood days, months years. Plus a local flood in their limited understanding of Geology would appear to be global!!

I don't need billions of years for creation as you do for evolution. I believe the flood was global as God promised never to destroy the earth again by water, as there are still local floods today.

Sorry but I stopped believing in fairy tales a long time ago when I found out that Santa and the easter bunny were my mom and dad. OBTW the date for Christmas is based on a Roman pagan holiday! You know that don't you?

Sure. I do believe in the virgin birth of Christ and that he paid my sin-debt and gives me eternal life for free.

Do you know enough about biology, geology, and physics to have informed opinions about evolution, the flood, and the age of the earth?

Sure, but I'm not an expert. I just see it from a different world view so I have different ideas about it.

Isn't inerrancy your main evidence, not a good understanding of a number of complex scientific topics?

Both.

Shouldn't faith alone be enough evidence for inerrantists? Surely the vast majority of inerrantists are not experts in science.

I don't leave my brain at the door.

I agree Agnostic. And "fountains of the deep " do you mean underground water? If so that's a whopping < .3 % of all the water on Earth!

We don't know that there was not more water under the earth before the flood, and the Bible says the fountains of the deep were broken up and that contributed to some of the water.

Do you have any evidence of this? Other than your Bible?

Sure. Lots of creation science is avail. on the web.

But what about the ways that fossils and sediments are sorted? Volcanic and geological activity could not have accounted for the ways that fossils and sediments are sorted.

To me, it looks like fossils were formed by the flood and rapid depositing of sediment.

In this modern age im supprise we have to be respectful to those this far off realities grid.

To believe in this magic one has to throw so much science, common knowledge and logic and reason that really it should be a crime.

Not really. It is not present, measurable science. We are in the sphere of historical science and depending on our worldview, we will reach different conclusions as to what we are looking at.

So, you believe that god can bypass the laws of physics when he chooses? In the form of miracles.

wa:do

Of course. Remember, I believe Jesus walked on water, and Peter did, briefly.

And this sort of absolute assertion is different from javajo's how?
Other than the fact that javajo was thoughtful enough to preface with "I believe".

wa:do

Yeah, its just my belief. I'm not dogmatic about scientific matters, science is always changing, the Bible doesn't. In Romans 5, Paul repeatedly tells how by one man, Adam, sin and therefore death and condemnation came upon all men, and that by one man, Jesus, grace and the free gift of life came to many for justification. Exactly how that all plays out is mystery, but I trust God that he loves me and however he did it, I'm just glad he did.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

I perceive things ignoring physics all the time.

:rainbow1:

Perception and reality are two different things...

 

[painted wolf]

Of course. Remember, I believe Jesus walked on water, and Peter did, briefly.

I can do it too... as long as it's January.

Yeah, its just my belief. I'm not dogmatic about scientific matters, science is always changing, the Bible doesn't.

Except when it has...

In Romans 5, Paul repeatedly tells how by one man, Adam, sin and therefore death and condemnation came upon all men, and that by one man, Jesus, grace and the free gift of life came to many for justification. Exactly how that all plays out is mystery, but I trust God that he loves me and however he did it, I'm just glad he did.

So why bother posting here?
Are you interested in what the science actually shows? Or was this a way of publicly expressing your faith?

wa:do

 

[outhouse]

We are in the sphere of historical science and depending on our worldview, we will reach different conclusions as to what we are looking at.

and that is a crime

because they are telling you the results and that isnt up for debate in many cases.


the uneducated do not have the capability to cherry pick science properly

 

[javajo]

I can do it too... as long as it's January.

You can walk on ice...

Except when it has...

John 3:16 is still John 3:16. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

So why bother posting here?

Why not?

Are you interested in what the science actually shows?

Origins or historical science, not operational or process science, big difference.

Or was this a way of publicly expressing your faith?

Just putting in my 2 cents.

and that is a crime because they are telling you the results and that isnt up for debate in many cases. the uneducated do not have the capability to cherry pick science properly

I'm not uneducated. I just understand historical science differently than you. I read somewhere about these 'annual rings' in ice when they'd take a cylinder sample it would have light and dark rings. They thought they showed years. Then they found a WWII plane under the ice and noticed that the rings showed it had been there thousands of years when it had only been a dozen or so. The natives told them the rings were not annual, but changed each time the temperature rose and fell and melted and refroze the ice. See? We can look at something and come to wrong conclusions about its age and how it came to be. That is called origins or historical science. Can't do that with process or operational science which measures and experiments with thing in the here and now.

 

[painted wolf]

You can walk on ice...

Ice is water.

John 3:16 is still John 3:16. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

So one verse is enough then.... as long as that one verse hasn't changed you're still good.
Why bother with the rest of the book?

Why not?
Origins or historical science, not operational or process science, big difference.Just putting in my 2 cents.

I do not think science means what you think it means.

wa:do