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Zionophobia

Yeshe Dawa

Lotus Born
They go out of their way, often putting Israelis at risk, to protect Palestinian civilians. Palestinians strap bomb vests onto their people, and Israelis save their lives.

And yet somehow, Israel receives the blame for Palestinian woes. Outrageous.

Hi Poisonshady313!

When I asked you if there were any areas where criticism of Israel could be justified, your only answer was that Israel is too lenient with the Palestinians. Now you mention that it is outrageous that Israel is blamed for Palestinian woes.

A BBC article about the Gaza conflict from 27 Dec 2008 to 14 Jan 2009 lists Israeli casualties at 13 (10 military, 3 civilian) and Palestinian casualties at 1,010(76 women, 315 children - I'll assume for the sake of argument that the 619 men were all combatants, though I doubt it). This is the link: BBC NEWS | Middle East | 'More than 1,000 killed in Gaza'

Another article reports that since the Gaza blockade, the unemployment rate in Gaza has risen to 45.2%, one of the worst in the world. The link is here: BBC News - Gaza unemployment levels 'among worst in world'

Given these statistics, do you still feel that Israel is too lenient with the Palestinians, and doesn't share in at least some of the blame for the situation of the Palestinians?

Peace and blessings,
Yeshe
:flower2:
 
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croak

Trickster
Gaza is not part of Israel? What was it before 2005? What was it before 1967, part of Egypt? Are you aware that Israel's existence as it is is without the "Consent of the inhabitants"? So are you saying the State of Israel itself has no justification for its existence then? Sounds like that's what you're saying....
By international law, no, it is not. I understand if you think Gaza, the West Bank, and all of Jerusalem belong to Israel: you're entitled to that opinion.

Does any state have a justification for existing? States come and go; the Ottoman Empire is no longer around, Roman Empire is long gone.... But I don't know where you got that point about justification from.

If the Israelis pulled off a "coordinated withdrawal" that removes all Jewish settlers rather than just changes the authority, that is called "Ethnic cleansing" by any other name.
If they were Christian settlers that built up enclaves on other people's land, the right thing would be to force them to leave. It's not their land. The fact that they're Christian has nothing to do with it.

I see you are from Lebanon, are you aware Lebanon was intended as a Christian state at first? I wonder if you're aware that the Muslims as well as the Secular Palestinians tried to ethnically cleanse the Christians there. You should be worried about what Syria does in the near future.
That's somewhat amusing, you talking to me about Lebanon. Mount Lebanon was majority Christian (specifically Maronite), but I don't recall Lebanon being intended as a "Christian state", just a state with a majority of Christians.

I wonder if you're aware that massacres and war crimes were happening left, right, and centre, perpetrated by Muslims and Christians, against even those of the same religion? It was a bloodbath.

So don't try and educate me about my own country, okay?

And I am worried about Syria... for its own citizens.
 

croak

Trickster
The wealthier families left on their own, as did the people fearing bloodshed. The Arab armies came for the rest. Of course the Arabs who stayed and became Israelis did very well for themselves.
Some did, sure.

What exactly are you referring to? Please be specific. What Zionist gangs forced Arabs out of their homes? When?
The most well-known case would be that of Deir Yassin: Deir Yassin massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Plan Dalet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Looks like that has something to do with it as well.

No it's not.

Sure, a few Arabs were displaced by Israel as certain areas were conquered AS A RESULT OF THE WAR... but who do you think started that war? The Arab states.
Arabs were displaced both prior to and following the war. As for the war itself, of course Arabs would leave; it was a conflict. As for who started the war, what is the point, exactly?

Sure you can. Especially if it's true. If there would have been no war in 48, there would have been no refugees. I challenge you to prove otherwise.
If Israel had not been made a country, there would have been no war. The point?

I don't blame all refugees for their own predicament. Some of them, sure.. they left on their own accord... or in some cases worse, they scared their brethren with false rumors of Israelis committing massacres and raping women. And then the Arab nations came around and didn't request or even merely urge... they ordered the Arabs out so they could finish off the Jews. The Arab leaders put the Palestinians' chips all in, and then lost it for them. Israel was more than willing to take them back, if the Palestinians would have made peace. No peace, no return.
You aren't saying Deir Yassin was a false rumour? Many Palestinians did flee after hearing the fate of the villagers, fearing the same would happen to them. I wouldn't call it unfounded. As for Israel being more than willing, I'm curious to read statements to that effect.

Meanwhile, Jordanians, Syrians, Egyptians... they deny or revoke the citizenship of Palestinians in their midst and force them to remain in those camps... and steal the aid meant for those refugees... but nobody seems to care about that. Those Arab governments don't care. The PA and Hamas don't care. People like you seem like you care... but it almost seems more like you care about teaching Israel a lesson rather than the actual fate of the Palestinian people.
I totally agree with all of that... except for the last sentence. "Teaching Israel a lesson"? What is that supposed to mean?

It's as if the only one's who care the most about the Palestinian people are the very ones the Palestinians consider their greatest enemy... Israel.
As if, but not really.

Israel gives them more aid than they can hope to receive from 22 Arab nations combined... they take care of Palestinians in Israeli hospitals. They go out of their way, often putting Israelis at risk, to protect Palestinian civilians. Palestinians strap bomb vests onto their people, and Israelis save their lives.

And yet somehow, Israel receives the blame for Palestinian woes. Outrageous.
Do I need to rehash the woes Israel has bestowed upon Palestinians? Of course, some things can be blamed on the Palestinian leadership, militias, and so on. But living under occupation doesn't affect their living standards or way of life much, I suppose?

Until they are prepared to accept Israel as a legitimate state that they might live in peacefully, they have no right asking (much less demanding) to be let back in.
They seem to be edging that way, if they haven't already.

Let them have the right to return to a Palestinian state, whenever that happens. As long as they view Israel as the enemy, their demand to be let back shouldn't be taken seriously.
How about those that wish to become Israeli citizens?
 

croak

Trickster
4,000 Israelis uprooted from their homes in Gaza and "ethnically cleansed" sounds like too much.

Less than 1,200 Gazans killed in Operation Cast Lead, a majority of them militants and fighters (i.e. NOT CIVILIANS), and it's called ethnic cleansing.

Seems to be a bit of a double standard.
Several hundred civilians is quite a bit. Would I call it ethnic cleansing? If it is part of a general policy to get Palestinians to leave Gaza, perhaps.

Also, Israeli settlers moved in after Israel captured Gaza, installed military bases, and invited them in.

I find there to be a difference. However, I'm not sure if Operation Cast Lead would count as ethnic cleansing. I don't feel like reading up on definitions and politics right now.
 

croak

Trickster
I might grant you "many"... but not as many as you'd like to believe. While Jews were busy immigrating to the land, so were many Arabs.
How many would I like to believe? Reading about Gaza, it seems there were a significant number of Egyptians, and many of the Palestinians there are descendants of refugees. As for the British Mandate, sure, people immigrate and emigrate all the time. Not the point. There were Arabs living there then and their descendants live there today. And there are many of them.

It's basically a no-man's land. Disputed territory. There never was a "State of Palestine", it doesn't belong to Egypt, and it doesn't belong to Israel.
It was never allocated to Israel, though, and it was captured during war.

When settlers settle in no man's land, there is no reason for them to leave.
Last I checked, settlements are illegal under international law.
 

Shermana

Heretic
There's a lot of things illegal under international Law, why are the Jewish settlers singled out and why are they illegal exactly? Why does Iraq get Southern Kurdistan?
 

Shermana

Heretic
By international law, no, it is not. I understand if you think Gaza, the West Bank, and all of Jerusalem belong to Israel: you're entitled to that opinion.

Does any state have a justification for existing? States come and go; the Ottoman Empire is no longer around, Roman Empire is long gone.... But I don't know where you got that point about justification from.


If they were Christian settlers that built up enclaves on other people's land, the right thing would be to force them to leave. It's not their land. The fact that they're Christian has nothing to do with it.


That's somewhat amusing, you talking to me about Lebanon. Mount Lebanon was majority Christian (specifically Maronite), but I don't recall Lebanon being intended as a "Christian state", just a state with a majority of Christians.

I wonder if you're aware that massacres and war crimes were happening left, right, and centre, perpetrated by Muslims and Christians, against even those of the same religion? It was a bloodbath.

So don't try and educate me about my own country, okay?

And I am worried about Syria... for its own citizens.

By "Christian majority", the intention was to have a "Christian state", as in a state that was run and populated by a specifically non-Muslim majority. Whether its an ethnic issue like Jews being in a "Jewish majority" area, Lebanon had a similar initial basis. What history does Lebanon have as an actual country? A crusader colony? The secular Palestinians sided with the Muslims in their massacres of the Christians. I'm assuming you are SSNP if you are not worried about Syria's long term plans for Lebanon. The massacres and war crimes were mostly committed by Muslims against Christians, do you have proof otherwise?
 

Poisonshady313

Well-Known Member
The most well-known case would be that of Deir Yassin: Deir Yassin massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mostly hype and false rumors, for the purpose of turning the Palestinian population against the Jews. It ended up scaring the hell out of them and causing them to flee.

Looks like that has something to do with it as well.
From your link: "Plan Dalet" called for the conquest and securing of Arab towns and villages inside the area alloted to the Jewish state and along its borders. In case of resistance, the population of conquered villages was to be expelled outside the borders of the Jewish state. If no resistance was met, the residents could stay put, under military rule.

Arabs were displaced both prior to and following the war. As for the war itself, of course Arabs would leave; it was a conflict. As for who started the war, what is the point, exactly?
Jews didn't show up to cause a rukus, kick out the natives and set up shop. They were prepared and willing and trying to live peacefully and cooperatively with Arab citizens and neighbors. It wasn't their fault that the Arabs couldn't play nice.


If Israel had not been made a country, there would have been no war. The point?
Creation of Israel does not equal war. It takes two to tango. Had Israel been created and there had been no war, those relocated because of Plan Dalet would have been let back in.

Though it occurs to me... had there been no war... and no Arab hostilities that preceeded the war... there probably wouldn't have been a Plan Dalet to begin with.

You aren't saying Deir Yassin was a false rumour?
Yes. That's exactly what I'm saying.

Many Palestinians did flee after hearing the fate of the villagers, fearing the same would happen to them. I wouldn't call it unfounded.
If I made up some **** to scare the hell out of you regarding the behavior of your next door neighbors, whose fault is it that if you end up moving out of your house... your neighbors whom I made stuff up about? Or me?

Read up on the situation:

Myths & Facts Online - The Refugees

As for Israel being more than willing, I'm curious to read statements to that effect.
MYTH
“Israel refused to allow Palestinians to return to their homes so Jews could steal their property.”


FACT
Israel could not simply agree to allow all Palestinians to return, but consistently sought a solution to the refugee problem. Israel’s position was expressed by David Ben-Gurion (August 1, 1948):
When the Arab states are ready to conclude a peace treaty with Israel this question will come up for constructive solution as part of the general settlement, and with due regard to our counter*claims in respect of the destruction of Jewish life and property, the long-term interest of the Jewish and Arab populations, the stability of the State of Israel and the durability of the basis of peace between it and its neighbors, the actual position and fate of the Jewish communities in the Arab countries, the responsibilities of the Arab governments for their war of aggression and their liability for reparation, will all be relevant in the question whether, to what extent, and under what conditions, the former Arab residents of the territory of Israel should be allowed to return.
The Israeli government was not indifferent to the plight of the refugees; an ordinance was passed creating a Custodian of Abandoned Property “to prevent unlawful occupation of empty houses and business premises, to administer ownerless property, and also to secure tilling of deserted fields, and save the crops....”


The implied danger of repatriation did not prevent Israel from allowing some refugees to return and offering to take back a substantial number as a condition for signing a peace treaty. In 1949, Israel offered to allow families that had been separated during the war to return, to release refugee accounts frozen in Israeli banks (eventually released in 1953), to pay compensation for abandoned lands and to repatriate 100,000 refugees.


The Arabs rejected all the Israeli compromises. They were unwilling to take any action that might be construed as recognition of Israel. They made repatriation a precondition for negotiations, something Israel rejected. The result was the confinement of the refugees in camps.


Despite the position taken by the Arab states, Israel did release the Arab refugees’ blocked bank accounts, which totaled more than $10 million, paid thousands of claimants cash compensation and granted thousands of acres as alternative holdings.



http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths2/Refugees.html#m8


I totally agree with all of that... except for the last sentence. "Teaching Israel a lesson"? What is that supposed to mean?
Expecting them to shoulder the responsibility for something that isn't their responsibility. To have people that are angry and hostile against Israel, so much that they won't acknowledge the legitimacy and sovereignty of the State of Israel, to just walk back in when they have no intention of making peace.


As if, but not really.
I might be exaggerating on that particular statement, but the point is, Israel is more help than harm to the Palestinians. And could be infinitely more helpful if only the Palestinians would accept the State of Israel's existence, and start cooperating with Israel instead of struggling against them.

Do I need to rehash the woes Israel has bestowed upon Palestinians? Of course, some things can be blamed on the Palestinian leadership, militias, and so on. But living under occupation doesn't affect their living standards or way of life much, I suppose?
"occupation" as if they're a sovereign entity being controlled by a foreign power :rolleyes: The fact that they're going to the UN to attain statehood is an indication that they're not already a state. They wouldn't accept the partition plan, and they wouldn't accept peace. They wouldn't accept Israel, and they wouldn't accept the land the UN set aside for them. When Egypt had Gaza and Jordan had the West Bank, where was a Palestinian state then? Or even a desire for self determination?

Israel isn't damaging the Palestinians' way of life. Between themselves and their Arab neighbors, they're doing the damage to themselves. The Palestinian leaders are agenda driven and greedy, and don't care about the welfare of their people. If they did, there would have been peace 60 years ago.


How about those that wish to become Israeli citizens?
There's no problem with people wishing to become Israeli citizens. But how many of them do you figure wish to become Israeli citizens?

You ask your question as if it's Israel that refuses them. No. They refuse Israel. When they change their tune to one of peace, rather than resistance, Israel will be the best friend they could ever hope to have.
 
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Shermana

Heretic
Deir Yassin was a legitimate battle, what about the Medical convoy where the Arabs killed (and probably did worse to) 72 doctors and nurses?
 

Poisonshady313

Well-Known Member
Hi Poisonshady313!

When I asked you if there were any areas where criticism of Israel could be justified, your only answer was that Israel is too lenient with the Palestinians. Now you mention that it is outrageous that Israel is blamed for Palestinian woes.
Actually, I never addressed your post. I meant to, but I hadn't gotten around to it yet. I'm sure there are situations that can be handled better... and I don't doubt that a lot of the settlers act reprehensibly. I wish I could be more specific, but since I spend so much time challenging illegitimate criticism, I don't have a specific list of legitimate criticisms handy.

A BBC article about the Gaza conflict from 27 Dec 2008 to 14 Jan 2009 lists Israeli casualties at 13 (10 military, 3 civilian) and Palestinian casualties at 1,010(76 women, 315 children - I'll assume for the sake of argument that the 619 men were all combatants, though I doubt it). This is the link: BBC NEWS | Middle East | 'More than 1,000 killed in Gaza'

Another article reports that since the Gaza blockade, the unemployment rate in Gaza has risen to 45.2%, one of the worst in the world. The link is here: BBC News - Gaza unemployment levels 'among worst in world'

Given these statistics, do you still feel that Israel is too lenient with the Palestinians, and doesn't share in at least some of the blame for the situation of the Palestinians?

Peace and blessings,
Yeshe
:flower2:

Given these statistics, I don't feel that Israel is too lenient with Palestinians. But the Palestinian leadership is responsible for the situation of the Palestinians.

Pali leaders would sooner turn away aid in order to make a political point about the blockade than make sure it got to the people it was meant for.

I'm not just slinging mud... this is what actually happened with the aid that came from the Turkish flotilla.

Israel isn't making the people suffer. Hamas and the PA make their people suffer and blame it on Israel.
 

Rakhel

Well-Known Member
The what led up to Deir Yassin and the number of deaths is what is up for debate. Not that it happened. Deir Yassin is kinda like Jenin in that respect.
 

Poisonshady313

Well-Known Member
The what led up to Deir Yassin and the number of deaths is what is up for debate. Not that it happened. Deir Yassin is kinda like Jenin in that respect.

The point is, it wasn't a massacre.


From the wikipedia page on the subject:

The Jordanian newspaper Al Urdun published a survivor's account in 1955, which said the Palestinians had deliberately exaggerated stories about atrocities in Deir Yassin to encourage others to fight, stories that had caused them to flee instead. Everyone had reason to spread the atrocity narrative. The Irgun and Lehi wanted to frighten Arabs into fleeing; the Arabs wanted to provoke an international response; the Haganah wanted to tarnish the Irgun and Lehi; and the Arabs and the British wanted to malign the Jews.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre#cite_note-56 In addition, Milstein writes, the left-wing Mapai party and David Ben-Gurion, who became Israel's first prime minister on May 14, exploited Deir Yassin to stop a power-sharing agreement with the right-wing Revisionists—who were associated with Irgun and Lehi—a proposal that was being debated at the time in Tel Aviv.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre#cite_note-57 Mordechai Ra'anan, the Irgun commander in Jerusalem, told reporters on April 10 that 254 Arab bodies had been counted, a figure published by The New York Times on April 13. In 1987, in a study regarded as authoritative, Sharif Kan'ana of Bir Zeit University concluded by interviewing survivors that 107 had died, with 12 wounded.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre#cite_note-Kanana1988-38


Hazam Nusseibeh, the news editor of the Palestine Broadcasting Service at the time of the attack, gave an interview to the BBC in 1998. He spoke about a discussion he had with Hussayn Khalidi, the deputy chairman of the Higher Arab Executive in Jerusalem, shortly after the killings: "I asked Dr. Khalidi how we should cover the story. He said, 'We must make the most of this.' So he wrote a press release, stating that at Deir Yassin, children were murdered, pregnant women were raped, all sorts of atrocities."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre#cite_note-Nusseibehinterview-59 Gelber writes that Khalidi told journalists on April 11 that the village's dead included 25 pregnant women, 52 mothers of babies, and 60 girls.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre#cite_note-Gelber2006p315-60

The stories of rape angered the villagers, who complained to the Arab emergency committee that their wives and daughters were being exploited in the service of propaganda.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre#cite_note-61 Abu Mahmud, who lived in Deir Yassin in 1948, was one of those who complained. He told the BBC: "We said, 'There was no rape.' He [Hussayn Khalidi] said, 'We have to say this so the Arab armies will come to liberate Palestine from the Jews'."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre#cite_note-Nusseibehinterview-59 "This was our biggest mistake," said Nusseibeh. "We did not realize how our people would react. As soon as they heard that women had been raped at Deir Yassin, Palestinians fled in terror. They ran away from all our villages."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre#cite_note-Nusseibehinterview-59 He told Larry Collins in 1968: "We committed a fatal error, and set the stage for the refugee problem." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre#cite_note-62Mohammed Radwan, one of the villagers who fought the attackers, said: "There were no rapes. It's all lies. There were no pregnant women who were slit open. It was propaganda that ... Arabs put out so Arab armies would invade. They ended up expelling people from all of Palestine on the rumor of Deir Yassin."
 

Poisonshady313

Well-Known Member
Poison, I am agreeing with you. I saw that BBC video. It is alive and well on YouTube.

I know, but it was necessary to clear that up for the sake of those reading along. Someone might have made the mistake of thinking that I was saying that NOTHING happened, and that you were correcting me.
 

Yeshe Dawa

Lotus Born
Actually, I never addressed your post. I meant to, but I hadn't gotten around to it yet. I'm sure there are situations that can be handled better... and I don't doubt that a lot of the settlers act reprehensibly. I wish I could be more specific, but since I spend so much time challenging illegitimate criticism, I don't have a specific list of legitimate criticisms handy.



Given these statistics, I don't feel that Israel is too lenient with Palestinians. But the Palestinian leadership is responsible for the situation of the Palestinians.

Pali leaders would sooner turn away aid in order to make a political point about the blockade than make sure it got to the people it was meant for.

I'm not just slinging mud... this is what actually happened with the aid that came from the Turkish flotilla.

Israel isn't making the people suffer. Hamas and the PA make their people suffer and blame it on Israel.

Hi Poisonshady 313!

Thanks for taking time for me. I know you've been busy in other discussions, and I agree - it's hard to keep up with what sometimes seems like a flood of hostile comments.

I think we agree that people in both Palestinians and Israelis are suffering because of the conflict. You seem quite knowledgable about the situation. I think ending the violence and providing people with the basic human necessities and dignities is more important than statehood. I think leaving the Palestinians in a kind of economic, social and political limbo is causing more harm than good, but if statehood isn't an option because of unwillingness to compromise, what do you think the long term solution is? Should the Palestinian territories be absorbed by Israel and everyone made citizens, or should they be turned over to surrounding countries - ex. give Gaza to Egypt? I'm not an expert on the situation, but I've heard it mention that many Palestinians live in Jordan - does that work?

Peace and blessings,
Yeshe
:flower2:
 

Shermana

Heretic
Ask the Jordanians.?


Nearly half the kingdom's 6 million people are of Palestinian origin and Jordan fears that if Palestinians become the majority, it will disrupt the delicate demographic balance.


Jordan strips Palestinians

Are you aware most Jordanian leaders agree that "Jordan is Palestine"? Have you seen their flags? If you ask teh Jordanians, they wouldn't want to lose their potential pawns to taking the rest of Israel by letting them live comfortable lives in Jordan. What's the size of Jordan compared to Israel. What is the difference in the "Demographic balance" between Jordanians and "Palestinians"?

Why wasn't Jordan required to make a Palestinian state in the 19 years they ruled the West Bank? What would be the problems involved of "upsetting" this "Demographic balance" in Jordan? Why is it not a problem to upset the "Demographic Balance" in Israel?

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/political-debates/118798-jordan-palestine.html
 
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Poisonshady313

Well-Known Member
I think leaving the Palestinians in a kind of economic, social and political limbo is causing more harm than good, but if statehood isn't an option because of unwillingness to compromise, what do you think the long term solution is?
I'm not sure. It'll take something major to bring a long term solution to the world. As it is now, the Palestinians will never stop resisting against the existence of Israel, and Israel will never stop defending itself. Only when the Palestinians officially cease their eternal struggle against the existence of Israel should statehood for Palestinians be seriously talked about.


Should the Palestinian territories be absorbed by Israel and everyone made citizens,
That would be nice, but that still requires peace first.

Would you invite a homicidal maniac determined to kill you and your family to live in your home? Would you force them against their will to live in your home?

If they want to become Israeli citizens and accept the reality of the State of Israel, by all means let them.

If they refuse because "Israel is the enemy", let them relocate to an Arab state.

If they want to stay and fight, let them stay and fight. And if they lose, anyone who calls it ethnic cleansing or genocide or a massacre can go to hell.

or should they be turned over to surrounding countries - ex. give Gaza to Egypt?
Never. Give the Palestinians living in Gaza to Egypt? Sure. But give the land to Egypt? Absolutely not. Israel defended itself against a hostile Egypt in 67, and in the course of winning that war took control of Gaza and the Sinai Peninsula. To make peace with Egypt, Israel gave back Sinai. And it worked. And in 2005, Israel completely withdrew from Gaza to make peace with at least the Palestinians living in Gaza. That didn't work.

There is nothing that distinguishes a Palestinian Arab from any other type of Arab. Before Israel came along, they were more than happy to think of themselves as Southern Syrians. Most of the countries in the middle east were artificially divided up by Europeans after WWI anyway... including lebanon, jordan, syria, iraq, etc... and the British Mandate of Palestine was to be, in part, a Jewish state. And then the Arabs lopped off 80% of that land and it became transjordan (Jordan). What remained should have gone to the Jewish homeland. But then the UN partitioned that remaining land, giving the Jews a raw deal, but they said yes. They hadn't displaced any Arabs living there. They settled into vacant/abandoned and purchased (at outrageously unfair prices) land from Arab landowners. The Jewish presence actually enhanced the standard of living of their Arab neighbors. But the Arab hatred of the Jew got the better of them, and spurred various acts of aggression towards the Jews, both new arrivals, and Jewish communities which existed in the land for over two thousand years. And when the Jews dared to defend themselves and/or retaliate, it got blown up by the Arabs as atrocities and massacres, which they later came to admit were nothing of the sort. Which brings us to the creation of the state of Israel...

A few select passages from Israel's Declaration of Independence (emphasis added by me) :

THE STATE OF ISRAEL will be open for Jewish immigration and for the Ingathering of the Exiles; it will foster the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants; it will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel; it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture; it will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions; and it will be faithful to the principles of the Charter of the United Nations.

WE APPEAL - in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months - to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.

WE EXTEND our hand to all neighbouring states and their peoples in an offer of peace and good neighbourliness, and appeal to them to establish bonds of cooperation and mutual help with the sovereign Jewish people settled in its own land.



Less than a day later, no less than 9 Arab armies descended upon Israel to destroy it.

Israel has been defending its existence ever since.

And the Palestinian refugees created by the Arab states that warred with Israel won't be accepted by those Arab states because to do so would indicate that they failed to destroy the Jewish presence in the middle east. And they keep those refugees living in third world conditions so they can say "Look at what Israel is doing to these Palestinians"... so that Israel will concede... and concede... and concede... until there is nothing left.

I'm not an expert on the situation, but I've heard it mention that many Palestinians live in Jordan - does that work?

Take a look at what Wikipedia has to say on the matter:
1,951,603 Palestinian refugees are located in Jordan, of whom 338,000 are still living in refugee camps.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_refugee#cite_note-28 Following Jordan's annexation of the West Bank, most Palestinian refugees were granted Jordanian citizenship. The percentage of Palestinian refugees living in refugee camps to those who settled outside the camps is the lowest of all UNRWA fields of operations. Palestinian refugees are allowed access to public services and healthcare, as a result, refugee camps are becoming more of poor city suburbs than refugee camps. Most refugees moved out of the camps to other parts of the country reducing the number of refugees in need of UNRWA services to only 338,000. This caused UNRWA to reduce the budget allocated to Palestinian refugee camps in Jordan. Former UNRWA chief-attorney James G. Lindsay says: "In Jordan, where 2 million Palestinian refugees live, all but 167,000 have citizenship, and are fully eligible for government services including education and health care." Lindsay suggests that eliminating services to refugees whose needs are subsidized by Jordan "would reduce the refugee list by 40%."

Palestinians who moved from the West Bank (whether refugees or not) to Jordan, are issued yellow ID cards to distinguish them from the Palestinians of the "official 10 refugee camps" in Jordan. Since 1988, thousands of those yellow-ID card Palestinians had their Jordanian citizenship revoked in order to prevent the possibility that they might become permanent residents of the country. Jordan's Interior Minister Nayef al-Kadi said
"Our goal is to prevent Israel from emptying the Palestinian territories of their original inhabitants," the minister explained, confirming that the kingdom had begun revoking the citizenship of Palestinians. "We should be thanked for taking this measure," he said. "We are fulfilling our national duty because Israel wants to expel the Palestinians from their homeland."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_refugee#cite_note-Jordan-31

I can find more quotes if you'd like, but the Arab world doesn't want the Palestinians because it will mean they ultimately failed to rid the middle east of Israel.

Tashbih Sayyed, a fellow of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, criticized Arab nations of making the children and grandchildren of Palestinian refugees second class citizens in Lebanon, Syria, or the Gulf States, and said that the refugees "cling to the illusion that defeating the Jews will restore their dignity".
 
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