• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Did Jesus say he was God???

Shermana

Heretic
As stated with the NLT translation, which correctly distinguishes between "Lord" and "LORD", the verse Paul is referring to is Joel 2:32, which does not use the word "Lord" but the actual Tetragrammaton. Thus, the distinction between Jesus as "Lord" and "the LORD "is clear. This tricky issue is often used by Trinitarians to confuse the meaning.


King James Bible
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
 
Okay, so once again, you're saying that Paul is referring to his own epistles as scripture, and not even in the right chronological date.

And once again, David is called "Lord" as well. The word "LORD "is interchanged with the Tetragrammaton, Jesus is "lord" in the same sense as his ancestor David, that is part of being "Christ".

I once again quote the NLT who correctly distinguishes in this case (though they are errorenous in other parts like "Don't speak their names").

It don't matter what I'm saying, unless you can prove acts 4:12 is wrong then your always gonna be wrong! And unless you can prove all my other verses are wrong then your never gonna be right!


Rom 10:1-16
(1) Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
(2) For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
(3) For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
(4) For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
(5) For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
(6) But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
(7) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
(8) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
(9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
(10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
(11) For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
(12) For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
(13) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
(14) How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
(15) And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
(16) But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

Hmm, this is defiantly Yeshua in verse 13!!! Verse 9 says to confess with thy mouth Yeshua! Then what does verse 14 say, how can we believe on him in context of verse 13 if we have not heard? Who are we suppose to believe on?(Jn 3:16) Then if we take this in the context of the whole bible (Acts 4:12) it must be talking about Yeshua!

Act 4:12
(12) Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

The bible commands us to invoke the name Yeshua!



Rom 10:12-13
(12) For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
(13) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


Lets compare scripture!

Gal 3:28
(28) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Col 3:11
(11) Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.



Obviously the Lord in romans 10:12 is the same Lord in romans 10:9 and 10:13. The same Lord in romans 10:12 is the same Lord, Jesus Christ in Gal 3:28 and col 3:11..

You can't prove romans 10:11 is connected to verse 12 and even if you can i have proven you wrong!
 
Last edited:

Shermana

Heretic
In Acts 4:12, Jesus is indeed the only "Name" (Authority) of whom the Keys to Salvation are given, he is the "Last Adam", the "Life Giving Spirit", it is through belief in him as Christ and his commandments that Salvation is achieved.
 
In Acts 4:12, Jesus is indeed the only "Name" (Authority) of whom the Keys to Salvation are given, he is the "Last Adam", the "Life Giving Spirit", it is through belief in him as Christ and his commandments that Salvation is achieved.

Really, only through belief?

Rom 10:9
(9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
 

Shermana

Heretic
Do you think ignoring the scripture is how to debate?

Are you serious? You've ignored MANY verses I've brought up, like the part about the "Last Adam" being the "Life giving Spirit" which I can mention each time from now on in addition to the seven or so other times I mentioned it.

Acts 4:12 is about the use of the word "Name" as in Authority. It says nothing about calling on it.
 
Are you serious? You've ignored MANY verses I've brought up, like the part about the "Last Adam" being the "Life giving Spirit" which I can mention each time from now on in addition to the seven or so other times I mentioned it.

Acts 4:12 is about the use of the word "Name" as in Authority. It says nothing about calling on it.

Noo, it says its the only name we can call on too be saved! Which we see here..

Rom 10:13
(13) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
 
Do you know what that means? It means to confess that Jesus is Lord and Christ. Not LORD. Do you see anything about invoking?

You said it was through belief and you left out confessing with thy mouth! Quit trying to change the debate! And yess i do see invoking!

Rom 10:13
(13) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
 

Shermana

Heretic
Noo, it says its the only name we can call on too be saved! Which we see here..

Rom 10:13
(13) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


It is through his teachings and authority that you are saved. The word "name" in many cases means authority.

Why do you suppose he says "Away from me ye doers of LAwlessness?" Not everyone who calls him Lord will be accepted. Matthew 7:22-23.
 

Shermana

Heretic
You said it was through belief and you left out confessing with thy mouth! Quit trying to change the debate! And yess i do see invoking!

Rom 10:13
(13) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


Confessing that Jesus is Lord with your mouth is part of believing in the fact that he's Christ.
 
It is through his teachings and authority that you are saved. The word "name" in many cases means authority.

Why do you suppose he says "Away from me ye doers of LAwlessness?" Not everyone who calls him Lord will be accepted. Matthew 7:22-23.

Original Word: ὄνομα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: onoma
Phonetic Spelling: (on'-om-ah)
Short Definition: name, character, reputation
Definition: name, character, fame, reputation.



3686 ónoma – name; (figuratively) the manifestation or revelation of someone's character, i.e. as distinguishing them from all others. Thus "praying in the name of Christ" means to pray as directed (authorized) by Him, bringing revelation that flows out of being in His presence. "Praying in Jesus' name" therefore is not a "religious formula" just to end prayers (or get what we want)!

["According to Hebrew notions, a name is inseparable from the person to whom it belongs, i.e. it is something of his essence. Therefore, in the case of the God, it is specially sacred" (Souter).]

It means name!
 

Shermana

Heretic
Soo you can confess Jesus is Lord, but you cant call on him! LOLOLOL haha

I confess that he is Lord of the Earth, but the Father alone I call on, who is Yashua's Lord, for he is Master of Heaven and Earth and the most High. Yashua is the 2nd in command, who is the Earthly governor.
 
It is through his teachings and authority that you are saved. The word "name" in many cases means authority.

Why do you suppose he says "Away from me ye doers of LAwlessness?" Not everyone who calls him Lord will be accepted. Matthew 7:22-23.

You can loose your salvation and calling upon him is not all we must do to be saved!

Soo now you have two saviors? Hmm, if i call on the name of Yahweh i can be saved! If i confess that Jesus is Lord and believe I can now be saved? wow I love your religion!

Isa 43:11
(11) I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
 
Last edited:
I confess that he is Lord of the Earth, but the Father alone I call on, who is Yashua's Lord, for he is Master of Heaven and Earth and the most High. Yashua is the 2nd in command, who is the Earthly governor.

Hahaha soo you cant call on Jesus for help or anything? And what name were you baptized in?

Col 2:8-10
(8) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
(9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
(10) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
 

Shermana

Heretic
Hahaha soo you cant call on Jesus for help or anything? And what name were you baptized in?

Col 2:8-10
(8) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
(9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
(10) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Head of all principality and power = The ultimate authority given to a Created Being.

How many times have I mentioned the "Last Adam is a life giving Spirit" thing now?
 

Jesus4m3

Stop Being Ignorant!
None of it is evidence of divinity. You cannot contain the ocean in a teacup, and God the Creator cannot be contained within all of Hisx Creation, much less the body of ONE human being.

I like how you proved a point by saying you cannot take a whole ocean in a tea cup. Funny that you say that because you might not be able to take the whole ocean in the tea cup but a portion correct? So now God came to us manifested in the flesh which he took a portion of himself in the flesh to show his works and truth. so thank you for proving a point. You can still have God incarnate. God bless you and hope he reveals himself to you.
 
Head of all principality and power = The ultimate authority given to a Created Being.

How many times have I mentioned the "Last Adam is a life giving Spirit" thing now?

Idk.. But what does that have to do with this debate? You have two Saviours!

Col 2:9-10
(9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
(10) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Mat 28:18
(18) And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
 
Top