Worrying times

[darkendless]

I live in a rather peaceful part of Australia, we've never really had much violence, drug issues or any major concerns.

However there have been 53 armed robberies in my area lately and just 2 weeks ago the gas station next to where I work was held up at gun point.

In a turn for the worst last night a police officer was shot responding to an armed robbery: 3 in custody after Qld police officer shot

My question to everyone is how do we stop this? I feel its a matter of time before my store gets robbed, we're a soft target as staff work either alone or in pairs. The issue is that we have no way of protecting ourselves in the event of a robbery.

This shows that scummy people will use force to get what they want.

What can we do?

How do we prevent this from happening?

Do we make armed robbery = life inprisonment in confinement?
Can we bring back brutal punishment and make an example out of these poor excuses for life?
Can we execute them and donate their organs to someone who isn't wasting them?

Whats your opinion on trying to reduce crime such as this?

 

[Revoltingest]

Self defense?

 

[darkendless]

Self defense?

I work at Subway which means i'm surrounded by knives. If I used one in self defense and killed someone I go down for manslaughter even if it was self defense.

Our laws are horiffic in these circumstances.

 

[HiddenDjinn]

I would recommend working to loosen the laws against killing in self defense and laws concerning firearms possession. I know it doesn't do much for you in the short haul, but maybe it will in the long haul.

 

[Revoltingest]

I work at Subway which means i'm surrounded by knives. If I used one in self defense and killed someone I go down for manslaughter even if it was self defense.
Our laws are horiffic in these circumstances.

Hmmmm.......sounds like paradise for psychopaths.

 

[darkendless]

Hmmmm.......sounds like paradise for psychopaths.

I know.

I still can't believe a police officer simply doing his job is fighting for his life so someone could steal something like $500.

Scum like these don't deserve to breathe under any circumstances. People who think differently need to come back to planet earth.

 

[darkendless]

I would recommend working to loosen the laws against killing in self defense and laws concerning firearms possession. I know it doesn't do much for you in the short haul, but maybe it will in the long haul.

There are too many people here who are peace Nazis scared to either loosen our laws for self defence or to harshen punishment.

What I feel needs to happen to zero tolerance for stupid crimes like these. Life imprisonment with no parole, no leniancy and no appeal. Let this scum rot.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Whats your opinion on trying to reduce crime such as this?

In the long term? Education and economic opportunity. Also, depending on the root causes of the problem, potentially drug treatment programs.

If you're already making $1000 week at a good job, you don't give all that up and shoot someone over $500.

 

[Penumbra]

I live in a rather peaceful part of Australia, we've never really had much violence, drug issues or any major concerns.

However there have been 53 armed robberies in my area lately and just 2 weeks ago the gas station next to where I work was held up at gun point.

In a turn for the worst last night a police officer was shot responding to an armed robbery: 3 in custody after Qld police officer shot

My question to everyone is how do we stop this? I feel its a matter of time before my store gets robbed, we're a soft target as staff work either alone or in pairs. The issue is that we have no way of protecting ourselves in the event of a robbery.

This shows that scummy people will use force to get what they want.

What can we do?

How do we prevent this from happening?

Do we make armed robbery = life inprisonment in confinement?
Can we bring back brutal punishment and make an example out of these poor excuses for life?
Can we execute them and donate their organs to someone who isn't wasting them?

Whats your opinion on trying to reduce crime such as this?

You said you live in a peaceful area, and you also say that recently there have been 53 armed robberies. What do you figure the cause of the sudden increase in violence is? If you're looking at punishment laws, did any of them change recently, or were they basically the same during the peaceful time?

Education, drug treatment, and making sure children have appropriate resources (so they don't grow up into this) is the best route I think. Law enforcement is important, but it's kind of the last line of defense along with other more important societal issues.

I work at Subway which means i'm surrounded by knives. If I used one in self defense and killed someone I go down for manslaughter even if it was self defense.

Our laws are horiffic in these circumstances.

Getting that set of laws fixed seems like a likely target for improvement.

 

[Badran]

I work at Subway which means i'm surrounded by knives. If I used one in self defense and killed someone I go down for manslaughter even if it was self defense.

Our laws are horiffic in these circumstances.

Do you know whats the rational or argument behind this law(s)?

 

[Copernicus]

My question to everyone is how do we stop this? I feel its a matter of time before my store gets robbed, we're a soft target as staff work either alone or in pairs. The issue is that we have no way of protecting ourselves in the event of a robbery.

You have experienced a sudden jump in crime rate, so the first question is why. What caused the increase? It could be that these crimes are perpetrated by just a few people, and it is not a trend of any sort. So it may just be that you need to tough it out until the miscreants are caught. Do you have video cameras installed? Just be sure to instruct your employees not to resist. It is better to lose a little money than to lose a life.

 

[Penumbra]

Do you have video cameras installed?

In addition to having security cameras, which is a good idea, it may be a good idea to visibly say that there are security cameras regardless of whether they exist or not if this is a large problem in the area.

 

[darkendless]

You said you live in a peaceful area, and you also say that recently there have been 53 armed robberies. What do you figure the cause of the sudden increase in violence is? If you're looking at punishment laws, did any of them change recently, or were they basically the same during the peaceful time?

Education, drug treatment, and making sure children have appropriate resources (so they don't grow up into this) is the best route I think. Law enforcement is important, but it's kind of the last line of defense along with other more important societal issues.

Loss of economic opportunities + drugs. The people doing this have been caught on camera about 75% of the time and they're clearly young kids, 19 years old at most.

I think its drugs. They're looking for an easy way to pay for their drugs.

We've had no change of anything recently. All there is are new party drugs and an economic downturn of sorts.

Getting that set of laws fixed seems like a likely target for improvement.

In Australia, I very much doubt it will happen.

 

[darkendless]

Do you know whats the rational or argument behind this law(s)?

Not really. I suspect its trying to prevent vigilate groups from getting revenge. Its also to prevent unnecessary mishaps. I guess it prevents people from being heroes and carving assailants a new hole to breathe out of (as much as i'd like to see them have their organs harvested).

 

[Revoltingest]

In addition to having security cameras, which is a good idea, it may be a good idea to visibly say that there are security cameras regardless of whether they exist or not if this is a large problem in the area.

To say you have cameras when you don't is legally very risky. When people have some sense of security by thinking the cameras are there,
US courts have held property owners liable for damages from their lack. This is especially true for landlords, but likely less so for stores.
Australia might have a similar liability in tort philosophy.

 

[Penumbra]

Loss of economic opportunities + drugs. The people doing this have been caught on camera about 75% of the time and they're clearly young kids, 19 years old at most.

I think its drugs. They're looking for an easy way to pay for their drugs.

We've had no change of anything recently. All there is are new party drugs and an economic downturn of sorts.

So it sounds like the problem is economic and drug related rather than related to the penal system.

In Australia, I very much doubt it will happen.

I'm curious as to why that is the case. What are the arguments against self defense in Australia?

To say you have cameras when you don't is legally very risky. When people have some sense of security by thinking the cameras are there,
US courts have held property owners liable for damages from their lack. This is especially true for landlords, but likely less so for stores.
Australia might have a similar liability in tort philosophy.

Really? Well that might not be such a good idea from me then.

 

[darkendless]

So it sounds like the problem is economic and drug related rather than related to the penal system.

Its a bit of both but its a concern given we never used to have such a large number of armed robberies. Its clear people are desperate and know they can get away with it. This is the first time a police officer has been greviously injured though.

I'm curious as to why that is the case. What are the arguments against self defense in Australia?

To many "goody goods." I don't know if you're aware of the term. Here its reference to people who refuse to endorse harsh punishment.

Really? Well that might not be such a good idea from me then.

He's right, same applies here.

 

[HiddenDjinn]

The same problem exists in New York. Armed robberies and shootings are on the rise, but one who defends himself is punished for the harm one caused the attacker. Makes no sense to me.

 

[Copernicus]

The same problem exists in New York. Armed robberies and shootings are on the rise, but one who defends himself is punished for the harm one caused the attacker. Makes no sense to me.

Having lived 14 years in NYC and experienced some of that violence, I can tell you why there are strict laws against gun possession. Violent criminals usually have more experience with violence than other folks. They do not actually play fair. They tend to make sure that their victims are least likely to be able to defend themselves, and they do not give fair warning before threatening violence. When any bozo can get a gun, the bozos will be the first people to come into possession of them. The result will be more armed robberies, not fewer. And, if criminals fear retaliation with deadly force, they will not suddenly become law-abiding citizens. Crazy people with weapons don't even plan that far ahead. In densely populated neighborhoods, when someone fires a gun, bullets go through ceilings, walls, and floors. I read enough of that when I was living there, and I'm glad that I no longer live in an apartment building where a crazy neighbor or some yahoo in the local park can threaten my life. (Yes, I remember one summer night when I was up all night listening to the cops shout back and forth when they looked for the gun that some idiot had tossed into the bushes after deciding to take potshots at the spotlights on my apartment building.)

Why don't local governments let the locals defend themselves with deadly force? Well, it's because not all local citizens feel confident in their abilities to meet violence with violence, and those who do feel confident lack the competence to make rational decisions under fire. The police go through extensive training to be able to know when and how to apply deadly force. Ordinary citizens neither require nor, in most cases, want such training.

 

[Badran]

Not really. I suspect its trying to prevent vigilate groups from getting revenge. Its also to prevent unnecessary mishaps. I guess it prevents people from being heroes and carving assailants a new hole to breathe out of (as much as i'd like to see them have their organs harvested).

I see, i agree these are terrible laws. There are obviously situations where you wouldn't be able to subdue an attacker without killing them, and to punish you in that instance is great injustice, as well as being encouraging people to basically be weak and extremely submissive.

Its not necessarily contributing to the problem you mentioned here, but it sure encourages attackers in general when they know there is a lesser chance of resistance or possibility for them to be killed.