Question for Christians

[godlikemadman]

Since the founding of the Christian church in the early first millenium, Christianity has splintered into an almost uncountable number of different sects, dialects and beliefs, with wide-ranging ideas on the nature of Christ, the nature of the Church, the authority of the Pope, the means of being saved, the nature of God himself, etc. What I ask of Christians is this: how do you know your sect's beliefs are correct, and others are wrong? Unless you're Roman Catholic (and even that didn't exist until the 3rd-4th century AD with the rise of Constantine), there's no way you can claim that your specific sect was the one Christ himself followed, because most sects arose out of the Protestant Reformation in the 1600s.

So, explain it to me. How do you know your sect is the right one?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Well, being a Protestant who has been through more than one denominational split (we trace our heritage to Zwingli in the 1520s, and from him through the Roman Catholic church to Christ), every split that I've seen has something to do with (a) pet practices and doctrine, (b) administration of ministries, (c) just good old-fashioned stupid fights.

Many denominations also have their origin in the bringing of Christianity in new areas by a Catholic preist or a monk - or when the Reformed doctrine made it to America.

Then we have every denomination (well, almost) splitting during the civil war, and that's why you see "United" in many titles of church names.

We also have all the denomenations that came out of the great awakenings in America, each following a particular teacher... these splits are from modified theology and worship practices that were considered radical.

Today, every Christian denomination is spliting over the ordination of homosexuals and women. Some churches want to remain traditional while the other half wants to be an affirming community. These splits are very ugly.

 

[Beta]

There is only one true Church and it was started by Jesus Christ and the original Apostles.
Furthermore Jesus said : the gates of hell shall not prevail against it - therefore it must still be around. :bow:

 

[ChristineES]

I am of the belief that if someone follows Jesus, that he or she is either Christian or "Follower of Christ" (Christian means that, but there are some Messianic Jews who don't want to be called Christians and I can hardly blame them and others). Denomination doesn't really matter all that much because it is due to different interpretations to different verses.
I like to believe that we belong to same Church as Simon Peter and the Apostles although there are differences in belief.

 

[Pegg]

let the bible settle the issue

if people read it, they would know if their denomination was accurately following Christs teachings.

 

[Beta]

I like to believe that we belong to same Church as Simon Peter and the Apostles although there are differences in belief.

We can't really assume that all the thousands of christian churches with different beliefs are true - you can't be serious ?
Many scriptures in Acts tell us that the Apostles and the people (their followers) were ' of one accord and of one mind ' Phil.2v2. Jesus also said that he and his Father are one as were to be his followers with him Joh.17. There is no division in the true Church.
Of false christians Jesus said : why call you me Lord Lord (they are pretend christians) but do not the things which I say ? Luk.6v46.
We should not be hoodwinked into believing that all christians are genuine. By their fruits you shall know them. Are they following in Jesus steps or not ?

 

[AllanV]

Since the founding of the Christian church in the early first millenium, Christianity has splintered into an almost uncountable number of different sects, dialects and beliefs, with wide-ranging ideas on the nature of Christ, the nature of the Church, the authority of the Pope, the means of being saved, the nature of God himself, etc. What I ask of Christians is this: how do you know your sect's beliefs are correct, and others are wrong? Unless you're Roman Catholic (and even that didn't exist until the 3rd-4th century AD with the rise of Constantine), there's no way you can claim that your specific sect was the one Christ himself followed, because most sects arose out of the Protestant Reformation in the 1600s.

So, explain it to me. How do you know your sect is the right one?

To me the scriptures are a reference, but have been hijacked by the so called intellectual. The comprehension and intellectual exercising of memory is more important than the actual power of God.

This is a bit like reading a book on gardening and never gardening but relying on an industry of genetically modified food that causes death. People from that GM industry infiltrate and keep the non gardeners tied up in a comprehension and intellectual exercise only so they can sell their food.

This is where the Christian Church is today.

The early Church was not amongst the most educated. Those drawn to the examples they saw knew it was a matter of faith, belief and transformation. The evidence was there, the power was seen to work.

Every ones belief is from their own life experience. They all have there own minds to exercise some power and influence.There is an impure energy coming off the mind and heart because of belief in own self. Everyone is caught up in this. This has to be separated from and it is in the mind. There needs to be consciousness shift.

God's request is to know Him, and to do His will from the heart. And this is Love from a perfect and pure mind and heart.
The true Church have the correct teaching that will be taking people all the way to perfection.

Look for perfect people doing doing amazing things and you will find the true church.

 

[godlikemadman]

Look for perfect people doing doing amazing things and you will find the true church.

So...

You're telling me that only the most perfect Christians in the world doing the most amazing things are the ones that ultimately will be saved?

Thats a rather... dismal view of the world.

Do you consider yourself to be among these amazing people?

 

[Katzpur]

What I ask of Christians is this: how do you know your sect's beliefs are correct, and others are wrong?

You don't. You may have deeply held convictions that what your Church teaches is true, but I don't believe any of us can know with an absolute certainty.

Unless you're Roman Catholic (and even that didn't exist until the 3rd-4th century AD with the rise of Constantine), there's no way you can claim that your specific sect was the one Christ himself followed, because most sects arose out of the Protestant Reformation in the 1600s.

I believe the Eastern Orthodox Church can pretty much make the same claims as Roman Catholicism. As to there being no way anyone else "can claim that [his] specific sect was the one Christ himself followed," I'm assuming that what you really meant to say "founded," as Christ did not follow any existing set of beliefs. Mormonism actually does make that claim. As a matter of fact, the concept upon which our Church is founded is that Jesus Christ himself actually did establish His Church, that after His death men changed its doctrines, and that He has re-established it in these days, using Joseph Smith as the instrument He would work through to accomplish it, restoring the doctrines and ordinances that were lost or changed over time. Unlike every other Christian denomination I can personally think of (aside from Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy), which base their beliefs solely upon how they interpret the Bible, Mormonism claims to have a living prophet and apostles at its helm, a man through whom Christ speaks to direct the Church. To the LDS people, that person holds the same role and has the same authority the Apostle Peter has anciently.

Even though I personally believe this to be true, my point in making this post is not to prove it to be so, but to point out the fallacy in the premise that only Catholicism can claim that Jesus Christ was its founder.

 

[AllanV]

So...

You're telling me that only the most perfect Christians in the world doing the most amazing things are the ones that ultimately will be saved?

Thats a rather... dismal view of the world.

Do you consider yourself to be among these amazing people?

The scripture says only those true believers, those who actively find their way by the spirit and stay, then act on it, will be taken. But this does have degrees before completion. Some will be entirely there and some will be judged on what they have done.

 

[Quiddity]

I believe the Eastern Orthodox Church can pretty much make the same claims as Roman Catholicism.

:clap Very similar claims, yes; but no exact.

 

[AllanV]

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

It is necessary to hear the word by the spirit and to be drawn by God then having the mind opened.
Taking other scriptures into consideration there needs to be a deep transformation to receive the blessing. It is not just about understanding something in own imperfect, impure and encumbered mind.
The modern Church that is seen is off the mark.

 

[Katzpur]

:clap Very similar claims, yes; but no exact.

I'm curious, Victor, can you tell me what would make their claim less valid? I know so little about Eastern Orthodoxy.

 

[Katzpur]

let the bible settle the issue

if people read it, they would know if their denomination was accurately following Christs teachings.

But how do you account for the fact that millions of people actually do read the Bible and belong to hundreds of different denominations, each one claiming to base their beliefs upon the Bible? It is seriously possible to argue pretty much any position you want to take on any one of a number of different doctrines by an appeal to the Bible.

 

[ChristineES]

We can't really assume that all the thousands of christian churches with different beliefs are true - you can't be serious ?
Many scriptures in Acts tell us that the Apostles and the people (their followers) were ' of one accord and of one mind ' Phil.2v2. Jesus also said that he and his Father are one as were to be his followers with him Joh.17. There is no division in the true Church.
Of false christians Jesus said : why call you me Lord Lord (they are pretend christians) but do not the things which I say ? Luk.6v46.
We should not be hoodwinked into believing that all christians are genuine. By their fruits you shall know them. Are they following in Jesus steps or not ?

Is that what you got from my post? It is for God to judge whether someone is truly following Him or not, it is not up to any person is all I meant. What do you think I think of the Westboro Baptist Church- they are a hateful group- by their fruits you shall know them and all that. I am not qualified to judge anyone since I am no better than anyone.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

For every one there is "Their" church.
There is also the "greater universal church community", to which we all belong.
Christian Has from the first days been formed of believers in Christ, worshipping him in their own ways. It seems a church need be no more than "two or three gathering in his name" for Jesus to be there.
If God required a single organisation there would be one.

 

[Pegg]

But how do you account for the fact that millions of people actually do read the Bible and belong to hundreds of different denominations, each one claiming to base their beliefs upon the Bible? It is seriously possible to argue pretty much any position you want to take on any one of a number of different doctrines by an appeal to the Bible.

there is reading, and then there is studying

no too many do the latter.

 

[Katzpur]

there is reading, and then there is studying

no too many do the latter.

I agree. But I think the problem runs a lot deeper than even that.

 

[esmith]

There is only one true Church and it was started by Jesus Christ and the original Apostles.
Furthermore Jesus said : the gates of hell shall not prevail against it - therefore it must still be around. :bow:

And may I ask what church was that? I thought that everyone has agreed that the Jesus that Christians call Christ was Jewish? Therefore I assume you are saying that the Jewish religion is the only true religion.

 

[Katzpur]

And may I ask what church was that? I thought that everyone has agreed that the Jesus that Christians call Christ was Jewish? Therefore I assume you are saying that the Jewish religion is the only true religion.

Clearly, if Jesus Christ said He was going to build His Church, it was a new one and not Judaism, but I think you already know that.