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Can Jewish law be fulfilled?

S

smokydot

Well-Known Member
B

BigRed

Member
smokydot said:
The Divine Lawgiver who legislated it, and the Divine Judge who applied it to this case, as revealed in the NT.
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There is a problem with your thinking IMO.

Can the NT be true if the Hebrew Scriptures are false?
Think! No, the NT cannot be true if the Hebrew Scriptures are false.

But ...can the NT be false if the Hebrew Scriptures are True?
Think...Yes the NT can be false if the Hebrew Scriptures are true.

So if you think about this logically, anytime there is a contradicion between the NT and the Hebrew Scriptures, the NT MUST be false because if the Hebrew Scriptures were false, the NT would be false as well.

So if the NT contradicts Deuteronomy 24:16, it MUST be the NT which is false.

BigRed
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
smokydot said:
worse than any insult I could ever come up with. . .
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You don't understand that it's possible to take words from the Bible, misinterpret them, and then use them as insults?

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that you have no shame. But taking the Bible, especially a part that is sacred to both Jews and Christians and abusing them like this is an all new low.
 
S

smokydot

Well-Known Member
angellous_evangellous said:
Hey.... my ego is deliciously brilliant, the only flaws being like those of an almost perfectly clear diamond.
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There are a "few" that don't fit that description, here ---> http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2323595-post696.html.
When you discover its magnificence you will find a fabulously enthusiastic sense of humor and a cunning wit. If you gaze at its beauty you will see a devestating intellect and poetic gentlemanly charm.
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What a shame it is used in the services of (1), (3), (6) here --->http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2318652-post514.html
[edit] To know it is to love it, and to love it is to realize that Angellous is your daddy.
There's nothing to inflate - it was never empty.
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Ain't that the truth! . .and ain't wives great!
 
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S

smokydot

Well-Known Member
angellous_evangellous said:
I'm not the one throwing around bible verses as if I were God.
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And what is your objection to using Bible verses. . .other than you can't wrestle them?
Yes, I've read them several times. A good deal of it in Hebrew, and all of the Greek and then some (apocrypha and apostolic fathers). I've memorized a good portion of the NT Greek as well.
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You're saying you've read the whole Bible (whole OT and whole NT) more than once?
 
S

smokydot

Well-Known Member
angellous_evangellous said:
You don't understand that it's possible to take words from the Bible, misinterpret them, and then use them as insults?
I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that you have no shame. But taking the Bible, especially a part that is sacred to both Jews and Christians and abusing them like this is an all new low.
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Oh. . .this is rich! . .even God is inappropriate. . .I'm sure we'd all think a lot more of him if he hadn't said those things. . .
 
B

BigRed

Member
Harmonious said:
You know... According to Jewish tradition, Cain and Abel were born in the Garden of Eden. Their story was not told until after they left it, though.

Seth wasn't born until after they left the Garden.

It would not be fair to say that Cain and Abel were only born after they were expelled, or that would be saying that children are a curse.

The curse of women is PAIN of childbirth, menstrual cramps, and the like. It makes more sense to me to understand that they were born before the punishment. That way, Eve knew the difference between giving birth to Cain and Abel, and to Seth.
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The Stone Chumash cites Rashi and says Cain and Abel were conceived in the garden.

BigRed
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
smokydot said:
Oh. . .this is rich! . .even God is inappropriate. . .I'm sure we'd all think a lot more of him if he hadn't said those things. . .
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Like I said, you're throwing around your opinions as if they were God's.
 
S

smokydot

Well-Known Member
BigRed said:
There is a problem with your thinking IMO.
Can the NT be true if the Hebrew Scriptures are false?
Think! No, the NT cannot be true if the Hebrew Scriptures are false.
But ...can the NT be false if the Hebrew Scriptures are True?
Think...Yes the NT can be false if the Hebrew Scriptures are true.
So if you think about this logically, anytime there is a contradicion between the NT and the Hebrew Scriptures, the NT MUST be false because if the Hebrew Scriptures were false, the NT would be false as well.
So if the NT contradicts Deuteronomy 24:16, it MUST be the NT which is false.
BigRed
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Both the OT and the NT are true. . .and their "contradictions" are hatched from your unbelief and ignorance. . .
 
B

BigRed

Member
Harmonious said:
Pegg, this is bothering me. So, I'll give you a lesson in grammar.

In Hebrew, one son is Ben. A daughter is Bat.

Many sons or many children of mixed sexes are Banim. Many daughters are Banot.

Hebrew also has a possessive form. Sort of the same way we have his or hers.

Children OF someone are Benei - whomever.

Benei Yisrael are the Children of Israel.

Benei Elohim are Children of Power.

But here's the thing... Idiomatically, the word Ben doesn't only mean son. When a family is so enamored of a person that the person becomes a quasi-permanent house guest, that person is called Ben Habayit. Literally translated, it means "son of the house." But actually, it means "member of the household."

Benei Elohim translates to "people of power." Only context would give that specific definition.

It doesn't mean that Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, or Malachi have it wrong. It means that the Hebrew idiom is being ignored by people who choose to mistranslate and redefine words to mean what they were never meant to mean.

You are right. Sometimes, God calls Jews His children. But in context, God calls us His children.

Angels, while holy in nature, do NOT have the same relationship with God that humans have, and certainly not the same relationship that the Jews have. Yes, God loves them. But God would not call the angels His children in that way.

It makes sense if you are trying to force the issue with a translation that completely ignores the purpose of the idiom. But if you are seriously trying to make a case for bad syntax to make it mean what you want it to mean, you are just showing ignorance for how Hebrew works.

Sometimes, Beings of Power refers to angels, as it does in Job. Sometimes, Beings of Power refers to nobles, as it does in the story of Noah. Sometimes, it refers to false gods, as people believed they were beings of power.

And part of the problem you are having is that you don't see the Hebrew, versus the English translation. While the Hebrew is very expressive and possessive in some places, particularly the verses you point out, in verses like the ones in Job, no one is referring to anyone possessively. The angels are "beings of power".

God is not claiming angels as children. He never does, and it never comes up in context anywhere.

When God refers to Israel as His sons, the word used is Banai, My sons.

Benei only means "son of".
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Hebrews1:5
For to which of the angels did He ever say,
"YOU ARE MY SON,
TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU"?
And again,
"I WILL BE A FATHER TO HIM
AND HE SHALL BE A SON TO ME"?

BigRed
 
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