Does Shari'a really call for executing homosexuals?

[Christian Gnosis]

Whats a modern day Christian?

As a Gnostic you should know better than to group all Christians together like this let alone define them as having the same beliefs.

I didn't, I said MANY don't. From my experience, most mainline Protestants do not find homosexuality immoral.

 

[Meow Mix]

I think this been answered before. In the middle east it's normal for friends of the same gender to hold hands or kiss on cheek when they greet each other.

Oh God! a flirty look?! Who on earth gonna watch people and punish them over that. It's really frustrating to see such stupid questions Meow Mix, and sorry to say that.

By the way, you didn't answer me, why don't the FBI handle everything in the US instead of the local police?

It doesn't seem like a stupid question to me when I hear about people being flogged and killed left and right for the most minor of offenses; especially when places have it on the books to murder homosexuals if they're caught by 4 witnesses or murdering people/ruining their lives for "sorcery." Sorry, it doesn't seem stupid at all: any country horrific enough to keep such a law on the books is very suspicious and despotic.

The FBI doesn't handle the local work because states have individual rights which are governed by an umbrella government structure. States handle their own prosecutions based on their own rules (which of course have to obey federal standards, but are otherwise different from one another). Thus, FBI only steps in when criminals committ inter-state crime because it becomes a question of whose rules to prosecute them by: it then becomes a national issue, not a state issue, and that's what the FBI is for.

 

[TashaN]

It doesn't seem like a stupid question to me when I hear about people being flogged and killed left and right for the most minor of offenses; especially when places have it on the books to murder homosexuals if they're caught by 4 witnesses or murdering people/ruining their lives for "sorcery." Sorry, it doesn't seem stupid at all: any country horrific enough to keep such a law on the books is very suspicious and despotic.

What you gonna do about it? You gonna invade each and every country which you feel very upset about how they live and govern themselves?

The FBI doesn't handle the local work because states have individual rights which are governed by an umbrella government structure. States handle their own prosecutions based on their own rules (which of course have to obey federal standards, but are otherwise different from one another). Thus, FBI only steps in when criminals committ inter-state crime because it becomes a question of whose rules to prosecute them by: it then becomes a national issue, not a state issue, and that's what the FBI is for.

That's really odd. It's one country right? they should just skip all that and let the FBI handle it all, don't you think?

 

[Bismillah]

How many countries can two men or two women safely hold hands and give each other knowing, flirty looks?

...

I don't understand what is so hard about it? The dictates are clear, if they are ignored than it is the consequence of human deviation from what is commanded in the Qur'an and they will be judged accordingly.

This asks for what Shariah law calls for, not what humans may or may not find acceptable within their own customs.

 

[Bismillah]

I didn't, I said MANY don't. From my experience, most mainline Protestants do not find homosexuality immoral

I'm sure the Christian world breathes a sigh of relief in that they have found someone as eloquent as you to act as their voice of truth.

 

[Blackheart]

...

I don't understand what is so hard about it? The dictates are clear, if they are ignored than it is the consequence of human deviation from what is commanded in the Qur'an and they will be judged accordingly.

This asks for what Shariah law calls for, not what humans may or may not find acceptable within their own customs.

This is the problem with Some elements of Christianity these days. Too many people think that they can design what is right or wrong in religion to suit their own desires. If God has commanded it then no one can change it. It isnt a question of ethics or 'changing with the times'. It is a question of how God has addressed it.

 

[Christian Gnosis]

This is the problem with Some elements of Christianity these days. Too many people think that they can design what is right or wrong in religion to suit their own desires. If God has commanded it then no one can change it. It isnt a question of ethics or 'changing with the times'. It is a question of how God has addressed it.

Blackheart it hasn't been shown that the verses in the NT actually address homosexuality with any certainty. Romans 1 addresses idolotry, in which Paul seems to have felt idolotry was the cause of homosexuality. 1 Corinthians 6 isn't clearly about homosexuality at all, it's been translated several different ways. When confronted with these arguments the fundamentalist usually falls back on the book of Leviticus to condemn homosexuality, but it also condemns shellfish and pork. Christians are not under the law, so if one cannot show clearly without any doubts that homosexuality is immoral from the NT, then it isn't.

 

[Blackheart]

Blackheart it hasn't been shown that the verses in the NT actually address homosexuality with any certainty. Romans 1 addresses idolotry, in which Paul seems to have felt idolotry was the cause of homosexuality. 1 Corinthians 6 isn't clearly about homosexuality at all, it's been translated several different ways. When confronted with these arguments the fundamentalist usually falls back on the book of Leviticus to condemn homosexuality, but it also condemns shellfish and pork. Christians are not under the law, so if one cannot show clearly without any doubts that homosexuality is immoral from the NT, then it isn't.

Sorry but thats not my point. If you dont believe that the scriptures teach against Homosexuality (or any other practice for that matter) then live accordingly. My point was directed to those who believe that the bible does teach against it yet they decide that they need to ignore that fact in order to move with the times or to become more acceptable to the modern secular world. They are the ones who are guilty of knowingly rewritting the scriptures to the point where we have people describing themselves as 'Christian Athiests'. The mind boggles!

 

[Christian Gnosis]

Well the NT doesn't teach against it with any certainty. The verses used to attest it does are vague at best.

 

[TashaN]

Blackheart it hasn't been shown that the verses in the NT actually address homosexuality with any certainty. Romans 1 addresses idolotry, in which Paul seems to have felt idolotry was the cause of homosexuality. 1 Corinthians 6 isn't clearly about homosexuality at all, it's been translated several different ways. When confronted with these arguments the fundamentalist usually falls back on the book of Leviticus to condemn homosexuality, but it also condemns shellfish and pork. Christians are not under the law, so if one cannot show clearly without any doubts that homosexuality is immoral from the NT, then it isn't.

Are you sure about that?

Leviticus 18 and 20

Chapters 18 and 20 of Leviticus, which form part of the Holiness code, contain the following verses:

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination.(Leviticus 18:22 KJV)

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.(Leviticus 20:13 KJV)

The two verses have traditionally been interpreted by Christians as blanket prohibitions against homosexual acts.

Traditional Jewish sources view these verses as prohibitions against anal sex between males.

Romans 1:26–27 is the only apparent reference in the Bible to female homosexuality, though some maintain that this prohibition applies only to male homosexuals:

“ (26) Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. (27) In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

The Bible and homosexuality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Isn't this clear?

 

[Gloone]

I'm sure the Christian world breathes a sigh of relief in that they have found someone as eloquent as you to act as their voice of truth.

Christians are not confined to any one particular set of beliefs. That is what makes them unique.

 

[Gloone]

I have founded a new Golden Rule that will last through the ages.

If it isn’t natural then it isn’t practical. Wink wink, finger shoot, smile, etc.

 

[Blackheart]

Christians are not confined to any one particular set of beliefs. That is what makes them unique.

Not quite unique. Muslims also have differing beliefs.

 

[Gloone]

Not quite unique. Muslims also have differing beliefs.

So you would go as far to say there is such a thing as an Unorthodox Islamic Muslim? I would say constitutes as making someone different or unique. Same with Christianity.

 

[Christian Gnosis]

Are you sure about that?


The Bible and homosexuality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Isn't this clear?

TashaN had you read my whole post you would have seen, it is believed by the majority of Christians we are not under the law. The law was only for the nation of Israel to begin with, so non-Jews were never under it.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Women ARE treated equally in the Quran, and i think you would be surprised to know that in the Quran men are asked FIRST to "lower their gaze" then women.

Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: and Allah is well acquainted with all that they do.

And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty ....

(Quran 24:30-31)

I stand corrected! :cover:

Doesn't that surprise you, Mr. Spinkles?

To be honest, no, it's not extremely surprising. It is very embarrassing, however. I apologize for my ignorance. Thank you for patiently correcting me, Tashan, I would give you frubals but I am out.

Doesn't that make you curious, Mr. Spinkles?

Yes, it does.

 

[Bismillah]

TashaN had you read my whole post you would have seen, it is believed by the majority of Christians we are not under the law. The law was only for the nation of Israel to begin with, so non-Jews were never under it.

Since you speak for the majority of good honest Christians what do you make of the following Church's positions

In accordance with the traditional values of Abrahamic religions,[1] most Christian denominations welcome people attracted to the same sex, but teach that homosexual relationships and sex are sinful.[2][3] These denominations include the Roman Catholic Church,[4] the Eastern Orthodox church,[5] the Methodist Church,[2][6][7][8] and some other mainline denominations, such as the Reformed Church in America[9] the American Baptist Church,[10] as well as Conservative Evangelical organizations and churches, such as the Evangelical Alliance,[11] and fundamentalist groups and churches, such as the Presbyterian Church in America[12] and the Southern Baptist Convention.[13][14][15] Pentecostal churches such as the Assemblies of God,[16] as well as Restorationist churches, like Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons, also take the position that gay sexual activity is immoral.[17][18]

Christianity and homosexuality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Meow Mix]

What you gonna do about it? You gonna invade each and every country which you feel very upset about how they live and govern themselves?

I think oppression should be stopped, yes -- peacefully if possible and by the oppressed if possible, but it took a world war to stop Hitler's regime. At the very least, oppressive despots should be contained from spreading their misery to other nations, help/asylum should be given to their victims and then they should be cut off from the civilized world until they decide to stop oppressing their own people.

You're forgetting that the victims of this oppression are part of the country and they have no say in how to govern themselves, so your sovereignty argument falls flat on its face.

The people deserve basic civil liberties like freedom of religion and freedom of expression. Governments that don't grant these to their citizens are despotic regimes and should be treated as such: contained, the victims given help, and encouraged to change the oppressive regime. All that it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing.

And before anyone chimes in about America's government being corrupt, yes I agree we need a change in our government too!

That's really odd. It's one country right? they should just skip all that and let the FBI handle it all, don't you think?

It's a country of "united states," states have their own rights within the confines of federal regulations. If there weren't states with individual policies then yes it would make sense to have the FBI handle it all, but since there are states with individual policies it wouldn't make sense at all. It makes the most sense (since it's the case that states do have individual powers) to have state police with local jurisdiction and then the FBI for inter-state problems.

 

[TJ73]

I think oppression should be stopped, yes -- peacefully if possible and by the oppressed if possible, but it took a world war to stop Hitler's regime. At the very least, oppressive despots should be contained from spreading their misery to other nations, help/asylum should be given to their victims and then they should be cut off from the civilized world until they decide to stop oppressing their own people.

You're forgetting that the victims of this oppression are part of the country and they have no say in how to govern themselves, so your sovereignty argument falls flat on its face.

The people deserve basic civil liberties like freedom of religion and freedom of expression. Governments that don't grant these to their citizens are despotic regimes and should be treated as such: contained, the victims given help, and encouraged to change the oppressive regime. All that it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing.

And before anyone chimes in about America's government being corrupt, yes I agree we need a change in our government too!

This is all so true MM. I think most believers feel God Himself granted us freewill and the choice to accept Him or not, so how in the heck can other people enforce what God Almighty has left to the individual?
I too agree oppressive regimes should be cut off, but I find the lines very murky.When I look into things I can not clearly see who is trying to really help and who is just seeking power and gain or who is standing just on an ideal. We may call one group terrorists and yet the people they represent consider the other side the terrorist. On one hand we can say, everyone must defend themselves and stand up for their own sovereignty, but the odds are already set up against those oppressed. Like so many third world countries where the people select a representative that they highly regard and feel has their interests at heart then we come along and vilify them and take them out of position for our own interest. it is such a shame!

 

[Meow Mix]

This is all so true MM. I think most believers feel God Himself granted us freewill and the choice to accept Him or not, so how in the heck can other people enforce what God Almighty has left to the individual?
I too agree oppressive regimes should be cut off, but I find the lines very murky.When I look into things I can not clearly see who is trying to really help and who is just seeking power and gain or who is standing just on an ideal. We may call one group terrorists and yet the people they represent consider the other side the terrorist. On one hand we can say, everyone must defend themselves and stand up for their own sovereignty, but the odds are already set up against those oppressed. Like so many third world countries where the people select a representative that they highly regard and feel has their interests at heart then we come along and vilify them and take them out of position for our own interest. it is such a shame!

Yep... USA has a long history of setting up brutal dictators in the name of national interests. US gov't is horrific when it comes to external affairs.