Christianity imposed on thousands - with no escape possible - and the reaction of those subjected

[dust1n]

I don't mind being told what to buy....I just disobey.
Tis the expectations & rituals of gift giving which I don't understand, fail at, & utterly detest.

Same here.

 

[Kathryn]

mball, are you serious? Do you honestly think that the event I described had nothing to do with Christmas from Macy's perspective? It was October 30 (and ask anyone who works in a mall - that's about the time Christmas is "launched") and the chosen music was Handel's "Messiah." You'd be hard pressed to find music that's not more Christmas-oriented - at least from a CHRISTIAN perspective.

The libretto is nearly verbatim from the King James Bible. It covers the prophecies concerning the Christ, the birth, miracles, crucifixion, resurrection and ascension of Jesus, and finally the End Times with the Christ's final victory over death and sin.

Although the work was conceived for secular theatre and first performed during Lent, it has become common practice since Handel's death to perform Messiah during Advent the preparatory period of the Christmas season, rather than in Lent or at Easter. Messiah is often performed in churches as well as in concert halls.

Handel wrote this amazing work in just 24 days.

I love to go to performances of this fantastic work of art and jump to my feet with the rest of the audience when the Hallelujah chorus begins. IT'S BEAUTIFUL!

By the way, take a look at the shoppers in the video of the event in question. Clearly the vast majority of them are delighted - NOT inconvenienced or irritated, as you claim they would or should be.

 

[Revoltingest]

The libretto is nearly verbatim from the King James Bible. It covers the prophecies concerning the Christ, the birth, miracles, crucifixion, resurrection and ascension of Jesus, and finally the End Times with the Christ's final victory over death and sin.

I never knew the words. I thought it was about wanting a hippopotamus for Xmas.

 

[Kathryn]

I love Christmas. I love the sights, the SOUNDS, the scents, the parties, the gift-giving (much more rewarding and precious than receiving gifts - unless you count the little handmade trinkets from grandbabies!). I love decorating the house, baking everyone's favorite goodies, building a roaring fire and relaxing in front of it while listening to Handel's Messiah - or James Taylor's "River" - and sipping on amaretto, with the lights down low and the lights on the tree softly sparkling.

I only go to the mall once during the Christmas season - my husband and I are the types who make a list, and hit it ONE TIME - buying everything for everyone in one fell swoop. We look forward to that madhouse trip each year. We love it, and always make a celebration of it - dressing festively, reveling in the craziness of the mall, enjoying the decorations, laughing off the traffic and the lines, and then we go someplace sweet and intimate for dinner together and recap the day's adventures over festive Christmassy martinis. It's fantastic. Better if it's freezing cold - which is iffy but definitely a possibility in Texas. It's somehow more fun to do Christmas shopping wearing a long scarf and cute boots.

I even love the melancholy, sweet sadness I feel putting up the Christmas tree WITHOUT my (now grown) kids. Every ornament has history and meaning. So many of them are handmade ornaments from when my kids were small. Others were my grandmother's, or ones I made with my parents and brothers (we used to have an ornament craft project as a family nearly every year). Since my kids were born, we've bought a special ornament every year as well, so the tree is pretty full. I swear, if the house was on fire, that box of ornaments would be one of the first things I grabbed on the way out!

Two other favorites at Christmas time are our Advent wreath, and the beautiful Nativity set I finally broke down and invested in a few years ago (hint - get them after Christmas!). It's lovely. I love displaying it in a prominent place, to put the emphasis in our household on what we consider to be the true, and most important, meaning of Christmas.

Most of all, I love midnight mass on Christmas eve, and reading the nativity story from St. Luke's gospel with family around the fire that evening. I love listening to small children's voices whispering "Happy Birthday, Jesus!" as they gaze on the Nativity set.

I'm not sure that there's what I would call a "war" on Christmas. But, like many others, I am sad when, each year, more and more businesses choose not to allow any religious symbolism during the season. I am sad when Christmas music is banned entirely. I am sad when people, even those who profess to be religious, become so wrapped up in the commercial aspects of the season that they disregard the spiritual side and meanings.

Some call that a war. Others, like myself, see it as an insiduous erosion of values that we hold dear.

But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

 

[Revoltingest]

On a serious note, it occurs to me that when I was a licensed real estate broker, any overt display of religious celebration which anyone
could possibly view as favoring one faith over another was dangerous. One complaint, & the state regulatory board would be all over me.
The state hired "testers" to interact with licensees, & look for violations. I had to deal with false (false in my mind, perhaps legit to the
fools) complaints. Banks, as regulated lenders, must watch the appearances they present, lest the gov't decide to have some fun.

It was good to let my license lapse.

 

[Kathryn]

I never knew the words. I thought it was about wanting a hippopotamus for Xmas.

No, that's another excellent Christmas song - I know it's easy to confuse the two, but to clarify, HERE are some of the lyrics from Handel's "Messiah."

CHORUS
For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given, and the government shall be upon His shoulder; and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

PASTORAL SYMPHONY

RECITATIVE. (Soprano) There were shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.

RECITATIVE. (Accompanied - Soprano) And lo! the angel of the Lord cam upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them, and they were sore afraid.

RECITATIVE. (Soprano)
And the angel said unto the, Fear not; for behold I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people; for unto you is
born this day in the City of David, a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

RECITATIVE. (Accompanied - Soprano) And suddenly there was with the angel a
multitude of the heavenly host, praising God and saying:-

CHORUS
Glory to God in the highest, and peace on earth, goodwill towards men.

AIR. (Soprano)
Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem! behold, thy King cometh unto thee! He is the righteous Saviour, and He shall speak peace unto the heathen.

RECITATIVE. (Alto)
Then shall the eyes of the blind be opened, and the ears of the deaf unstopped; then shall the lame man leap as a hart, and the tongue of the dumb shall sing.

AIR (Alto)
He shall feed His flock like a shepherd: and He shall gather the lambs with His arm, and carry them in His bosom, and gently lead those that are with young.

AIR (Alto)
Come unto Him, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and He will give you rest. Take His yoke upon you, and learn of Him, for He is meek and lowly of heart, and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

CHORUS
His yoke is easy and His burden is light.

Now - for comparison, here are the lyrics to "I Want A Hippopotamus for Christmas:"


I want a hippopotamus for Christmas
Only a hippopotamus will do
Don't want a doll, no dinky Tinker Toy
I want a hippopotamus to play with and enjoy

I want a hippopotamus for Christmas
I don't think Santa Claus will mind, do you?
He won't have to use our dirty chimney flue
Just bring him through the front door,
that's the easy thing to do

I can see me now on Christmas morning,
creeping down the stairs
Oh what joy and what surprise
when I open up my eyes
to see a hippo hero standing there

I want a hippopotamus for Christmas
Only a hippopotamus will do
No crocodiles, no rhinoceroses
I only like hippopotamuses
And hippopotamuses like me too

(Short Music Interlude)

Mom says the hippo would eat me up, but then
Teacher says a hippo is a vegeterian

(Short Music Interlude)

There's lots of room for him in our two-car garage
I'd feed him there and wash him there and give him his massage

I can see me now on Christmas morning,
creeping down the stairs
Oh what joy and what surprise
when I open up my eyes
to see a hippo hero standing there

I want a hippopotamus for Christmas
Only a hippopotamus will do
No crocodiles or rhinoceroseses
I only like hippopotamuseses
And hippopotamuses like me too!


I know that for some people, these two songs seem very similar and are easy to mistake for the other, so I hope this information is helpful.

 

[Revoltingest]

I am such a wonderful boss....well....I'm annoying, but tolerant.
I let an employee play that hippo Xmas song a lot.
Seeing the words brings back fond memories.....of her quitting.

 

[Midnight Pete]

I am okay with this. Especially since I do not get miserable during the holidays; except Halloween, for some reason.

I find Halloween kind of depressing. The celebration of darkness and evil. It's like Christmas and Easter combined for Satanists.

 

[Magic Man]

I don't mind being told what to buy....I just disobey.
Tis the expectations & rituals of gift giving which I don't understand, fail at, & utterly detest.

Out of curiosity, do you only hate the expectations and rituals of gift-giving when it comes to Christmas, or does that apply to birthdays, too?

 

[Magic Man]

mball, are you serious? Do you honestly think that the event I described had nothing to do with Christmas from Macy's perspective? It was October 30 (and ask anyone who works in a mall - that's about the time Christmas is "launched") and the chosen music was Handel's "Messiah." You'd be hard pressed to find music that's not more Christmas-oriented - at least from a CHRISTIAN perspective.

Does this have to do with anything we're talking about? Yes, the music is religious, but it's not a church hymn. No, it doesn't matter whether Christmas was close at hand. You're using this as a launching point for your tirade against the perceived war on Christmas, when this event is irrelevant to that topic.

By the way, take a look at the shoppers in the video of the event in question. Clearly the vast majority of them are delighted - NOT inconvenienced or irritated, as you claim they would or should be.

OK, so there was something else in your post relevant to our conversation.

This comment by you is an example of my other point about you seeing what you want to see. It is far from clear in that video that the vast majority of the shoppers are delighted. It's clear some of them are, but we don't get to see the reaction of most of them.

Also, I never said the majority of shoppers would feel inconvenienced or annoyed. I said performing this has the strong possibility of making at least some of the shoppers feel that way, and that that is the main factor in a store's decision about whether or not to allow it. Please try to understand what I'm saying before responding.

 

[Magic Man]

I'm not sure that there's what I would call a "war" on Christmas. But, like many others, I am sad when, each year, more and more businesses choose not to allow any religious symbolism during the season. I am sad when Christmas music is banned entirely. I am sad when people, even those who profess to be religious, become so wrapped up in the commercial aspects of the season that they disregard the spiritual side and meanings.

Some call that a war. Others, like myself, see it as an insiduous erosion of values that we hold dear.

But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

Are more and more businesses doing that? I hadn't really noticed, but maybe that's because I'm not assuming it's happening.

And what are these values that you hold dear that are being eroded? Making everyone listen to your holiday music?

The fact is some places like to make sure they don't alienate any possible customers. That's not a bad thing. As a business you don't have to have Christmas decorations and play Christmas music. It's not eroding any values.

Actually, I imagine that in 50-60 years, we'll see at least as many businesses celebrating Christmas. I think the more it comes to be a holiday not based on the religious aspects, and is accepted as a non-religious holiday, the less you'll see people worry about offending people with Christmas decorations and music.

 

[Midnight Pete]

Does this have to do with anything we're talking about? Yes, the music is religious, but it's not a church hymn. No, it doesn't matter whether Christmas was close at hand. You're using this as a launching point for your tirade against the perceived war on Christmas, when this event is irrelevant to that topic.



OK, so there was something else in your post relevant to our conversation.

This comment by you is an example of my other point about you seeing what you want to see. It is far from clear in that video that the vast majority of the shoppers are delighted. It's clear some of them are, but we don't get to see the reaction of most of them.

Also, I never said the majority of shoppers would feel inconvenienced or annoyed. I said performing this has the strong possibility of making at least some of the shoppers feel that way, and that that is the main factor in a store's decision about whether or not to allow it. Please try to understand what I'm saying before responding.

If there is no war on Christmas, mball, why are you going on and on about this? What is the reason for this tirade of yours if not to whine about Christmas music in malls?

 

[Magic Man]

If there is no war on Christmas, mball, why are you going on and on about this?

On and on about what?

What is the reason for this tirade of yours if not to whine about Christmas music in malls?

Where do you see a tirade, and where did you see me whining about Christmas music in malls? You seem to be confused. I don't mind Christmas music being played where I shop. I can understand getting fed up with it when it's played at your workplace every day for 6+ weeks (I've been there), but I'm not advocating getting rid of Christmas music or decorations.

 

[Midnight Pete]

On and on about what?



Where do you see a tirade, and where did you see me whining about Christmas music in malls? You seem to be confused. I don't mind Christmas music being played where I shop. I can understand getting fed up with it when it's played at your workplace every day for 6+ weeks (I've been there), but I'm not advocating getting rid of Christmas music or decorations.

Where did I accusde you of anything? Why are you even talking to me?

 

[Revoltingest]

Out of curiosity, do you only hate the expectations and rituals of gift-giving when it comes to Christmas, or does that apply to birthdays, too?

Birthdays are less of a problem cuz it's one person at a time. But yeah, birthdays are a burden.

 

[Magic Man]

Where did I accusde you of anything? Why are you even talking to me?

OK, I really have to ask now. Are you mentally unstable? That is a serious question.

You asked why, if there is no war on Christmas, was I going on and on about something. You also asked the reason for my "tirade" and "whining about Christmas music in malls".

So, you accused me of going on a tirade and whining about Christmas music in malls. And I'm talking to you because you asked me questions.

 

[Magic Man]

Birthdays are less of a problem cuz it's one person at a time. But yeah, birthdays are a burden.

OK, so it's jut gift-giving in general, then? Why do you hate it so much?

 

[Revoltingest]

OK, so it's jut gift-giving in general, then? Why do you hate it so much?

It requires social skills which don't come naturally or easily to me.
I'm like Raymond Babbitt, but without all the good brainy traits.....taller & though.

 

[Magic Man]

It requires social skills which don't come naturally or easily to me.
I'm like Raymond Babbitt, but without all the good brainy traits.....taller & though.

OK, thanks. I get fed up with gift-giving at Christmas-time most years, mostly because I can't think of good stuff to get people, but I do like the tradition, and I love when someone opens a gift I give them that they really want.

Anyway, I was just curious.

 

[Revoltingest]

OK, thanks. I get fed up with gift-giving at Christmas-time most years, mostly because I can't think of good stuff to get people, but I do like the tradition, and I love when someone opens a gift I give them that they really want.
Anyway, I was just curious.

No prob. I favor small gifts...ephemeral treats such as favored foods, cash (for kids).
If I mess up, the cost & slight are small. I'm happy with just a card or a cookie.