Let's Talk about Heaven

[MissAlice]

I'm curious Cordoba, I hope you don't take me as someone after you or whatever being mean or out to get you. That is not my intention. But I'm curious, what happens to women when they enter heaven and is this thing about guys getting 72 virgins a universal muslim belief or only granted to those who have martyered themselves.

Again I'm not great at asking questions the polite way and this is not me trying to be offensive but I was wondering what your beliefs on this is.

Where do apostate or those who don't believe in the same thing as you go? If a hell what kind of hell or is it the same hell resorted to those who murder (not in the name of allah or islam), rape, and whatever else is considered sin in Islam.

 

[Cordoba]

But what kind of life (or afterlife) is this? If there are no worries or pains, we people truly "living"?

Yes, an eternal life of peace

Do you not like to have peace of mind and to live in peace?

 

[Cordoba]

I'm curious Cordoba, I hope you don't take me as someone after you or whatever, but what happens to women when they enter heaven and is this thing about guys getting 72 virgins a universal muslim belief or only granted to those who have martyered themselves.

Again I'm not great at asking questions the polite way and this is not me trying to be offensive but I was wondering what your beliefs on this is.

Where do apostate or those who don't believe in the same thing as you go? If a hell what kind of hell or is it the same hell resorted to those who murder (not in the name of allah or islam), rape, and whatever else is considered sin in Islam.

Women in Heaven enjoy the delights of Paradise with their husbands

A man can have more than one wife in Paradise, but it's part of human nature for a wife to have one husband

As for people of other faiths, God will judge them on the Day of Judgment. There is another thread dealing with Hell so maybe it's best to dedicate this thread to Heaven only

 

[MissAlice]

Women in Heaven enjoy the delights of Paradise with their husbands

A man can have more than one wife in Paradise, but it's part of human nature for a wife to have one husband

As for people of other faiths, God will judge them on the Day of Judgment. There is another thread dealing with Hell so maybe it's best to dedicate this thread to Heaven only

That sounds great, what about women who are not married?

 

[Riverwolf]

Many things

- Be close to God

- Meet up with those we love

- Enjoy a life of peace, without worries, fear, illness or pain

Heaven is the Abode of Peace, eternal peace

I don't know... sounds... dull.

 

[MissAlice]

Women in Heaven enjoy the delights of Paradise with their husbands

A man can have more than one wife in Paradise, but it's part of human nature for a wife to have one husband

Wait I just looked at this again. Hold up, a man can have more than one wife in Paradise. But what about the woman?

Ok here's an assumption, a woman is still the property thereby the mother of someone's child by why she has to have a child in the hereafter...who knows except the man. Don't get me wrong, there are many men I appreciate in this life but you and like others make women as if either they don't exist or don't deserve the same respect. Where is the gender balance? If a woman has lust for a guy it is forbidden but when a man has lust for girl it is not? I'm confused?

As a female, I've always wondered why I hated the "patriarchal society". Believe it had nothing so much to do with the men but the incompetent men made over women, RIGHT OVER WRONG. MAN OVER WOMAN. RIGHT OVER WRONG, I'm beginning not only to see thing in the Abrbrahamic trait but in Islam as well.

Note to all muslims, I'm not saying all muslims are bad or misoygynists...in fact there are some degrees I find interesting that muslims bring up about women in the western media. Other than that, I cannot see why women are as "bad as" gay men or people who lust after menWhere is the gender balance? If a woman has lust for a guy it is forbidden but when a man has lust for girl it is not? I'm confused?

As a female, I've always wondered why I hated the "patriarchal society". Believe it had nothing so much to do with the men but the incompetent men made over women, RIGHT OVER WRONG. MAN OVER WOMAN. RIGHT OVER WRONG, I'm beginning not only to see thing in the Abrbrahamic trait but in Islam as well.

Note to all muslims, I'm not saying all muslims are bad or misoygynists...in fact there are some degrees I find interesting that muslims bring up about women in the western media. Other than that, I cannot see why women are as "bad as" gay men or people who lust after men just as men who lust after just as men who lust after men.

 

[Badran]

Wait I just looked at this again. Hold up, a man can more than one wife in Paradise but what about the woman?

Ok here's an assumption, a woman is still the property thereby the mother of someone's child by why she has to have a child in the hereafter...who knows except the man. Don't get me wrong, there are many men I appreciate in this life but you and like others make women as if either they don't exist or don't deserve the same respect. Where is the gender balance? If a woman has lust for a guy it is forbidden but when a man has lust for girl it is not? I'm confused?

As a female, I've always wondered why I hated the "patriarchal society". Believe it had nothing so much to do with the men but the incompetent men made over women, RIGHT OVER WRONG. MAN OVER WOMAN. RIGHT OVER WRONG, I'm beginning not only to see thing in the Abrbrahamic trait but in Islam as well.

Note to all muslims, I'm not saying all muslims are bad or misoygynists...in fact there are some degrees I find interesting that muslims bring up about women in the western media. Other than that, I cannot see why women are as "bad as" gay men or people who lust after menWhere is the gender balance? If a woman has lust for a guy it is forbidden but when a man has lust for girl it is not? I'm confused?

I understand your frustration. It's not, it's the same. A man lusting a woman is the same as a woman lusting a man. It's our nature, we were created like that, able to be attracted to others, and we can't help who and how and when are we attracted.

About heaven, the same god who in our belief created this world, with all the things we enjoy in it, with all the things we like about it, said that there is another place called heaven, that we will love and enjoy. He said that in it, we will see what we never have seen, and we will hear what we never have heard. We can get whatever we desire, and we will be able to do all things that we couldn't do in life, there is no right and wrong in heaven. Our nature will be different in heaven, the very idea of temptation will not exist anymore.

Your question about hell, there are different layers in hell, people are not punished in the same way. The worse your crime, the worse the punishment.

 

[MissAlice]

I understand your frustration. It's not, it's the same. A man lusting a woman is the same as a woman lusting a man. It's our nature, we were created like that, able to be attracted to others, and we can't help who and how and when are we attracted.

About heaven, the same god who in our belief created this world, with all the things we enjoy in it, with all the things we like about it, said that there is another place called heaven, that we will love and enjoy. He said that in it, we will see what we never have seen, and we will hear what we never have heard. We can get whatever we desire, and we will be able to do all things that we couldn't do in life, there is no right and wrong in heaven. Our nature will be different in heaven, the very idea of temptation will not exist anymore.

Your question about hell, there are different layers in hell, people are not punished in the same way. The worse your crime, the worse the punishment.

Thank you Badran for answering.

I won't go too far, but of the wives not married or the apostates not devoted? Believe me, I know is a complicating view especially among a religion but I'm curious how many people view it in your religion. Don't get me wrong, I think there are great many "followers" among you. Yet I am still curious, why is it that the woman is hold down in such an after life. Why
vendetta for something that is too innate in all of us and that has been around since the dawn of time, in other ways why sex?

 

[zenzero]

Friend Cardoba,

The mind always *thinks* about the past or the future and is never present.
So your so called heaven exits in the minds only. Best Wishes.
Personally HERE-NOW am drinking wine and am in paradise/eden/zannat!

Love & rgds

 

[Badran]

Thank you Badran for answering.

I won't go too far, but of the wives not married or the apostates not devoted? Believe me, I know is a complicating view especially among a religion but I'm curious how many people view it in your religion. Don't get me wrong, I think there are great many "followers" among you. Yet I am still curious, why is it that the woman is hold down in such an after life. Why
vendetta for something that is too innate in all of us and that has been around since the dawn of time, in other ways why sex?

I don't fully understand what you are saying, but if you are saying why is supposedly women's privileges in the afterlife are less than men, that is not the case. There are a lot of speculation about heaven. The point is, from what is said in the Quran, you can get whatever you want. There is no such thing as right or wrong there. So, in my belief they will have the same privileges.

That patriarchy in Abrahamic religions, or at least i'll stick to Islam, is not really founded in anyway. I believe, that all the stuff from which this mentality is derived are made up, to help encourage that way of thinking.

What did you mean about the apostate part? And if i still didn't answer your question, please say so, because i'm not sure if i got you right.

 

[MissAlice]

Well Badran you remind so much of myself and people I have known both muslim and christian.


But the reason why I ask this question is not because of this life but the life after. Anyhow I'm not too picky if I'm going to be dead, I just don't understand why sex is such a big deal in these religions. If it is a big deal then why aren't the women also taken into account? I'm not saying there is no such thing but why should a woman worry more about her sexuality than a man?

I voluntarily worked with a couple of girls who had been brought up in Afghanistan. I was very horrified by their stories, but what can I do? Islam is Islam and unchangeable, did these girls deserve to get the treatment they got in the name of Islam? I don't know and I'm still scared to ask this question since it's either racist or me trying to group all Muslims together. Why do I see so many mistreatment in this lifetime of women? This would help give me a starting point rather than just question Islam but thus far I have not gotten any even denied that ever happened amongst other muslims. Why?

 

[Badran]

Well Badran you remind so much of myself and people I have known both muslim and christian.


But the reason why I ask this question is not because of this life but the life after. Anyhow I'm not too picky if I'm going to be dead, I just don't understand why sex is such a big deal in these religions. If it is a big deal then why aren't the women also taken into account? I'm not saying there is no such thing but why should a woman worry more about her sexuality than a man?

I voluntarily worked with a couple of girls who had been brought up in Afghanistan. I was very horrified by their stories, but what can I do? Islam is Islam and unchangeable, did these girls deserve to get the treatment they got in the name of Islam? I don't know and I'm still scared to ask this question since it's either racist or me trying to group all Muslims together. Why do I see so many mistreatment in this lifetime of women? This would help give me a starting point rather than just question Islam but thus far I have not gotten any even denied that ever happened amongst other muslims. Why?

Women are being mistreated in such places for the same reason they were mistreated in other places in different times through history. Prejudice, need for the sense of superiority by some men, ignorance and misplaced ideas that somehow women are or should be more ashamed of having feelings.

For example, in a certain time in arabia, before Islam, men used to be ashamed if there wives had a baby girl. Is that because of there beliefs, no. I'd be lying if i said i understand this mentality, it's too complicated for my knowledge. If they used there brains in anyway, the least they would've though of would be the fact that women give birth, they made those men, so how can they be ashamed of them, it's totally beyond me. What i'm trying to say is, these horrible things you hear about are problems with people, not really Islam. People did this all the time, every where.

If you have any questions that you feel are inappropriate, please go ahead and ask them.

 

[MissAlice]

Women are being mistreated in such places for the same reason they were mistreated in other places in different times through history. Prejudice, need for the sense of superiority by some men, ignorance and misplaced ideas that somehow women are or should be more ashamed of having feelings.

For example, in a certain time in arabia, before Islam, men used to be ashamed if there wives had a baby girl. Is that because of there beliefs, no. I'd be lying if i said i understand this mentality, it's too complicated for my knowledge. If they used there brains in anyway, the least they would've though of would be the fact that women give birth, they made those men, so how can they be ashamed of them, it's totally beyond me. What i'm trying to say is, these horrible things you hear about are problems with people, not really Islam. People did this all the time, every where.

If you have any questions that you feel are inappropriate, please go ahead and ask them.

I realize these issues are sensative and perhaps will ask them via pm if you're willing to answere them. I agree that this has been going on throughout the world regardless of Islam. One thing I just can't seem to understand in 2010 is why so many of these cases that are "unconrollable' are due to religious conflicts, Islam. Yet there are many cases without religion where women have some "control", so yes I think you are right in bringing this up. Yet that does not bring down the patriarchal society we live in or the old views most people have against women when it comes to children, drugs, sex, looseness, and whatever. I'm not saying women are any better, far from it but it seems like in even our U.S. society, we are taught that women deserve more than the men when making mistakes. Yet I would not bring this topic up if there were not muslim women both from Afghanistan, Lebanon, and Pakistan I'm seeing so much of and for the most ridiculous reasons it seems. Most of these women seem bright yet are at the hands of a law that is not only "Islam" but stupid considering their circumstances.

 

[Badran]

Could you give me one example so i can tell you my opinion regarding wether or not Islam prescribes this problem for those women, or in other words, tell me what these men claim that Islam prescribes, which causes trouble to those women, so i can tell you wether or not islam really prescribes it. If you want to do it through a PM feel free, especially because we are derailing the thread.

 

[averageJOE]

- Meet up with those we love

- Enjoy a life of peace, without worries, fear, illness or pain

Heaven is the Abode of Peace, eternal peace

What if those we love don't make it to heaven? What if I make it to heaven but my son rejects god and dosn't make it? How could I truly be happy knowing he is in hell? Wouldn't that cause constant worry and pain?
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...s/85415-will-you-happy-heaven-while-your.html

Women in Heaven enjoy the delights of Paradise with their husbands

A man can have more than one wife in Paradise, but it's part of human nature for a wife to have one husband

So in heaven a woman will continue to be a man's object? Can a woman have more than one husband?

 

[Benoni]

Well Badran you remind so much of myself and people I have known both muslim and christian.


But the reason why I ask this question is not because of this life but the life after. Anyhow I'm not too picky if I'm going to be dead, I just don't understand why sex is such a big deal in these religions. If it is a big deal then why aren't the women also taken into account? I'm not saying there is no such thing but why should a woman worry more about her sexuality than a man?

I voluntarily worked with a couple of girls who had been brought up in Afghanistan. I was very horrified by their stories, but what can I do? Islam is Islam and unchangeable, did these girls deserve to get the treatment they got in the name of Islam? I don't know and I'm still scared to ask this question since it's either racist or me trying to group all Muslims together. Why do I see so many mistreatment in this lifetime of women? This would help give me a starting point rather than just question Islam but thus far I have not gotten any even denied that ever happened amongst other muslims. Why?

God is not a sexist He is a spirit….



God is a Spirit which is not male or female BUT:

Masculine is always spirit or spiritual (man child) God is always referred in the masculine with the exception of one of his names (El Shaddai) which is feminine (sorry to break some wineskins)? It has been said there are over two hundred different names for God is scripture; a name speaks of name, nature, character and authority. God is one but has many different natures.

But look at the feminine side of scripture we have the soul, the church, Baby lon. My point a man can have a soulish type ministry spiritually speaking. But I have meet women who were masculine for their ministries were spirit.

"El", often translated "God", primarily means "might" or "power." David speaks His Name: "It is El that girdeth me with strength." The revelation of the name "Shaddai" is different. It also expresses power, but it is not the power of violence, but of all-bountifulness.
"Shaddai" means "Breasted", a word formed from the Hebrew word "Shad" meaning "the breast", more specifically, "a woman’s breast". Thus "Shaddai"means "The Pourer or Shedder forth" of blessings both natural and spiritual. This name shows us His nature as One whose self-sacrificing love gives and pours itself out for others.

But there is something deeper than even this — something that corresponds to the tenderness of a mother in holding, nursing, nurturing, caring for, and comforting the weary and wounded spirit of her child. Mothers are the tenderest image in humanity! There is something in God which corresponds to that power of the tender and compassionate feminine nature, something of which, indeed, that feminine care and comfort is only the pale, earthly reflection. Yes, God is a Mother as well as a Father,
only He is so much finer a mother than the finest mother you ever knew!

The references in scripture to God as a Mother are numerous. "As one which his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem" (Isa. 66:13). In Genesis 1:2 we read, "And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

" That word moved in the Hebrew indicates a "hovering" or "brooding" that began to take place upon the surface of the waters. The word also indicates a "fluttering" such as the wings of a fowl. So in the very beginning of this planet Earth we see the first manifestation of the maternal, or feminine, character of God. In the beautiful Song of Moses he says to the unfaithful people of Israel, "Of the Rock that bore you, you were unmindful; you forgot the God who travailed in your birth" (Deut. 32:18, Amplified).
Here God is portrayed as a disappointed Mother who bore us and brought us forth! These words clearly involve the image of childbirth, of God as a Mother. "Under His wings," an expression used again and again in scripture, is a mother figure. Jesus said, "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!" (Mat. 23:37). It is the mother-bird that gathers up her brood under her wings to feel the heat of her body, and for protection. So Christ says, in effect, "I would be a Mother to you!"
The letter killeth, and God purposely pleased those divine words in the Bible to say something to us deep and profound; but we have a tendency to hear and see what some man made system believes and ignore the fact that God’s spirit always has a deep and profound message it we (singular) have an ear to hear.

God is a spirit; neither male nor female; just like Adam before God took the rib from Adam and created Eve.

When God speaks to us He uses what I will call spiritual language, symbolisms, examples, parables to show us something beyond the letter that killeth.

1 Corin 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come. example

Example: NT:5178 a : Strong’s: tupikos (toop-ee-kos'); an adverb related to NT:5179; found only in 1 Cor 10:11: as a warning, by way of example, typologically (i.e. figuratively, as a prophetic type, a typological interpretation of Scripture)

For this reason so many literalize God’s Word, because their minds are earthy, carnal or religious; but look a little closer; I like the word see: (Gk) with wide-open eyes, as at something remarkable See: Strong’s NT:3700

 

[K.Venugopal]

A man can have more than one wife in Paradise, but it's part of human nature for a wife to have one husband

Don't you think it is also a part of human nature for a wife not to want to share her husband with other women?

 

[Cordoba]

That sounds great, what about women who are not married?

They will get married in Heaven and will live there in peace with their husband

 

[Cordoba]

What if those we love don't make it to heaven?

On the Day of Judgment, some believers whose bad deeds exceed their good deeds will not enter Paradise with those who are admitted there.

If they have even a very small amount of faith in their heart, God will allow intercession to take place, for people of Heaven interceding for God to forgive their relatives or friends who are in Hell

Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, will intercede for believers, and they will eventually end up in Heaven

 

[logician]

Wine here on earth is harmful for the mind (and causes a hang-over)

The wine of Paradise is different, as it does not cause a hang-over and is not harmful

Really? Been there?:sleep: