Vanderbilt Muslim chaplain advocated capital punishment for gay people.

[Mr Spinkles]

oh he is a professor and he wants Sharia law and kill all gay people. why can't i find what he says in the article? i went to the link for a few times..i'll try again
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The man said quite clearly he supports the murder of gays in the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=secLQ00F7GM

Yes, yes I know .... he doesn't really want to murder all gays, but "only" people who keep committing homosexual acts and only if it can be proven in a Sharia court. Then they can be murdered.

Disgusting.

 

[.lava]

The man said quite clearly he supports the murder of gays in the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=secLQ00F7GM

Yes, yes I know .... he doesn't really want to murder all gays, but "only" people who keep committing homosexual acts and only if it can be proven in a Sharia court. Then they can be murdered.

Disgusting.

oh sorry, did not realize there is a video. i can't view youtube anyway


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[Mr Spinkles]

Apparently he said, What does this mean? What does Islam teach, and how do we know? Is there a single "Islam teaches" doctrine on this or anything?

He said more than that. It was as clear as day. Watch the video.

The questioner asks (3:00 minutes) "Under Islamic law, is it punishable by death if you are a homosexual?"

The response was:

"Yes. It is punishable by death."
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He tries to downplay this by saying that there are no countries, today, which practice ONLY Sharia law. As if to say, oh, the execution of gays in so many countries with Sharia law don't count because there are elements of Napoleonic law in Saudi Arabia. When gays are executed by states that are TRULY practicing Sharia law, then we will all see the executions won't be so horrific or despicable, as they are today.

What a disingenuous, cheap debate tactic to mask an utterly barbaric and indefensible homophobia.

 

[Sahar]

The majority of scholars of Islam agree that there is a punishment for those who practice sodomy (and other homosexual practices) and some of them call for the death penalty.

 

[Smoke]

Is there a thread here somewhere that explains role of hadith?

To oversimplify things a bit, the Qur'an is the Tanakh and the ahadith are the Talmud.
Or the Qur'an is the Bible and the ahadith are canon law.

 

[Autodidact]

To oversimplify things a bit, the Qur'an is the Tanakh and the ahadith are the Talmud.
Or the Qur'an is the Bible and the ahadith are canon law.

Thank you, that's very helpful.

 

[Autodidact]

The majority of scholars of Islam agree that there is a punishment for those who practice sodomy (and other homosexual practices) and some of them call for the death penalty.

Waht does the qur'an say?

 

[Sahar]

Waht does the qur'an say?

The Qur'an talked about the people of Lut and the severe punishment they deserved in this life.
And based on this, juristic scholars of Islam conclude that there should be a worldly punishment for those who act like the people of Lut and also based on various hadith's they specify the penalty.

 

[Father Heathen]

The Qur'an talked about the people of Lut and the severe punishment they deserved in this life.
And based on this, juristic scholars conclude that there should be a worldly punishment for those who act like the people of Lut and also based on various hadith's they specify the penalty.

So you think it's fair and reasonable to torture and murder someone just for loving the wrong person? Is that really sensible and civilized?

 

[Sahar]

So you think it's fair and reasonable to torture and murder someone just for loving the wrong person? Is that really sensible and civilized?

I believe that who insist on deviating from the straight human nature openly and arrogantly challenge God's law and the Islamic society values deserves punishment. Otherwise, practice whatever you want inside your closed doors.

 

[Father Heathen]

I believe that who insist on deviating from the straight human nature openly and arrogantly challenge God's law and the Islamic society values deserves punishment. Otherwise, practice whatever you want inside your closed doors.

My, aren't you a bloodthirsty little thing.

 

[AxisMundi]

I believe that who insist on deviating from the straight human nature openly and arrogantly challenge God's law and the Islamic society values deserves punishment. Otherwise, practice whatever you want inside your closed doors.

And yet science has shown homosexuality to be perfectly natural and inherent part of humanity, in those individuals who are, indeed, homosexual.

At what point does a religion grow up and except reality over ancient religious dogma?

And why the clear hypocracy in places like Iran, where a "gay" man can have a sex-change operation openly and legally, without fear of reprisal?

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Iran's 'diagnosed transsexuals'

 

[Autodidact]

The Qur'an talked about the people of Lut and the severe punishment they deserved in this life.
And based on this, juristic scholars of Islam conclude that there should be a worldly punishment for those who act like the people of Lut and also based on various hadith's they specify the penalty.

You mean there's nothing in the qur'an about homosexuality! Wow, that's news. What does it say about the people of Lut?

 

[Autodidact]

I believe that who insist on deviating from the straight human nature openly and arrogantly challenge God's law and the Islamic society values deserves punishment. Otherwise, practice whatever you want inside your closed doors.

You mean it's O.K. to be gay as long as you're closeted?

 

[Sahar]

What does it say about the people of Lut?

'The people of Lot rejected the messengers. Their brother Lot said to them: 'Will you not fear God? I am to you a messenger worthy of all trust. so fear God and obey me. No reward do I ask of you for it. My reward is only from the Lord the of worlds. Of all the creatures of the world will you approach males, and leave those whom God has created for you as mates? Nay. You are people transgressing all limits.' They said: 'If you desist not O Lot, you will surely be cast out!'. He said: 'I do detest your doings. O my Lord! Deliver me and my family from such things as they do.' So we delivered him and his family, all except an old woman who lingered behind. The rest we destroyed utterly. We rained down on them a shower; and evil was the shower on those who were admonished.' (Ash-Sh`ara': 160-173)

'And Lot who said to his people: 'Do you do what is indecent though you see its iniquity? Would you really approach men in your lusts rather than women? You are a people grossly ignorant.' His people gave no answer but this: 'Drive out the followers of Lot from our city. They are indeed men who want to be clean and pure.' But we saved him and his family except his wife: We destined her to be of those who lagged behind. And We raked down on them a shower: and evil was the shower on those who were admonished.' (An-Naml: 54-58)

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[Autodidact]

Is that the only mention in all of the qur'an? And nothing about women at all?

 

[Perfect Circle]

I believe that who insist on deviating from the straight human nature openly and arrogantly challenge God's law and the Islamic society values deserves punishment. Otherwise, practice whatever you want inside your closed doors.

So no where in the Quran does it say any man should mete out punishment for homosexuality then? If this is true, then why the assumption?

 

[AxisMundi]

And yet science has shown homosexuality to be perfectly natural and inherent part of humanity, in those individuals who are, indeed, homosexual.

At what point does a religion grow up and except reality over ancient religious dogma?

And why the clear hypocracy in places like Iran, where a "gay" man can have a sex-change operation openly and legally, without fear of reprisal?

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Iran's 'diagnosed transsexuals'

No reply?

 

[Father Heathen]

No reply?

They're not about to allow reason and facts to get in the way of their faith and blood lust. Be it stoning or lashing, they get some perverse satisfaction and a little tingling in the loins from torture and death.

 

[Sahar]

So no where in the Quran does it say any man should mete out punishment for homosexuality then? If this is true, then why the assumption?

The main sources of Islamic legislation are the Qur'an and the Sunnah (the teachings) of the prophet Muhammad. It's also derived from analogical deduction of legal matters (qiyas) and the consensus of Islamic jurists.

The issue of the punishment of homosexuality is indeed debated between the scholars as I stated.
This will be explained as follows:

a) No legal punishment is stated in the Qur'an for homosexuality; all what is stated in this concern is the condemnation of committing it in the context of the story of Prophet Lot and the divine punishment his people received for committing such a hideous sin.

b)It is not reported that Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) has punished somebody for committing homosexuality, a fact that Ibn Al-Qayyim has explained by saying that "this (sin) was not known among Arabs" during the lifetime of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him).

c) There is no authentic hadith reported from the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) prescribing a punishment for the homosexuals. However, the Qur'anic description of homosexuality as a fahishah (Arabic for: abomination), which is the same description of zina (Arabic for: adultery or fornication), hints that both sins entail inflicting the same legal punishment.

d) Scholars of Islamic schools of jurisprudence have different views on the punishment to be inflicted for committing this sin: Some say that the punishment is the killing of the perpetrator, others say that it is the same as in the case of zina, and a third party are of the opinion that the judge may afflict a lower discretionary punishment, such as imprisonment.

Read more:IslamonLine.net - Ask The Scholar
Based on various hadiths and narrations, they conclude the punishment. Some of these ahadith were discussed in the above link.

Also From Dr Taha Jabir Al alwani's Fatwa:

and he (the prophet) said in another Hadith: “ If a man comes upon a man then they are both adulterers”

Here, he considered homosexuality tantamount to adultery in relation to the Shari’ah punishments because it is an abomination on the one hand and the definition of adultery applies to it on the other hand. It has also been narrated from the Companions (may Allah be pleased with them) that this crime deserves severe punishment more than that of adultery to insure its deterrence and restraint.

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