Vanderbilt Muslim chaplain advocated capital punishment for gay people.

[Sahar]

No reply?

If you mean no reply from me, then because it's really tiring to repeat the same arguments about this issue. You say science proves it's natural and I'll say it's a disorder...blablabla...
As for the sex change operation, I think it's controversial between Muslim scholars.
I am not here to speak for Iran.

 

[Father Heathen]

If the kitty cat in your avatar was gay would you crush it with a brick?

 

[Autodidact]

The main sources of Islamic legislation are the Qur'an and the Sunnah (the teachings) of the prophet Muhammad. It's also derived from analogical deduction of legal matters (qiyas) and the consensus of Islamic jurists.

The issue of the punishment of homosexuality is indeed debated between the scholars as I stated.
This will be explained as follows:

a) No legal punishment is stated in the Qur'an for homosexuality; all what is stated in this concern is the condemnation of committing it in the context of the story of Prophet Lot and the divine punishment his people received for committing such a hideous sin.

b)It is not reported that Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) has punished somebody for committing homosexuality, a fact that Ibn Al-Qayyim has explained by saying that "this (sin) was not known among Arabs" during the lifetime of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him).

c) There is no authentic hadith reported from the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) prescribing a punishment for the homosexuals. However, the Qur'anic description of homosexuality as a fahishah (Arabic for: abomination), which is the same description of zina (Arabic for: adultery or fornication), hints that both sins entail inflicting the same legal punishment.

d) Scholars of Islamic schools of jurisprudence have different views on the punishment to be inflicted for committing this sin: Some say that the punishment is the killing of the perpetrator, others say that it is the same as in the case of zina, and a third party are of the opinion that the judge may afflict a lower discretionary punishment, such as imprisonment.

Read more:IslamonLine.net - Ask The Scholar
Based on various hadiths and narrations, they conclude the punishment. Some of these ahadith were discussed in the above link.

Also From Dr Taha Jabir Al alwani's Fatwa:
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This is a good example of a truly primitive morality. It considers a natural expression of human love, that harms no one, as a horrible sin. Meanwhile, the same religion is debating issues like whether victims of rape should be flogged, whether killing people who deconvert should be killed, and whether women should have the right to vote.

 

[AxisMundi]

If you mean no reply from me, then because it's really tiring to repeat the same arguments about this issue. You say science proves it's natural and I'll say it's a disorder...blablabla...
As for the sex change operation, I think it's controversial between Muslim scholars.
I am not here to speak for Iran.

Firstly, science does indeed say it is natural. You can claim it's a disorder all you wish, but until you either 1. provide legitimate credentials in the mental health fields sufficient to challenge an entire scientific peer review group, or 2. find the DSM diagnostic code to support your opinion, it is merely that, an unsupported opinion.

Secondly, transgender operations are also occuring in Saudi, Pakistan and several other muslim countries.

If you don't have an answer, that's cool. Just admit it.

 

[Sahar]

This is a good example of a truly primitive morality. It considers a natural expression of human love, that harms no one, as a horrible sin. Meanwhile, the same religion is debating issues like whether victims of rape should be flogged, whether killing people who deconvert should be killed, and whether women should have the right to vote.

OK.

Firstly, science does indeed say it is natural. You can claim it's a disorder all you wish, but until you either 1. provide legitimate credentials in the mental health fields sufficient to challenge an entire scientific peer review group, or 2. find the DSM diagnostic code to support your opinion, it is merely that, an unsupported opinion.

BTW, what does this have to do with being moral or not?

Secondly, transgender operations are also occuring in Saudi, Pakistan and several other muslim countries.

As I said, it's a controversial issue.

If you don't have an answer, that's cool. Just admit it.

 

[AxisMundi]

BTW, what does this have to do with being moral or not?

As I said, it's a controversial issue.

It has everything to do with morals.

Homosexuality is claimed to be immoral by the Abrahamics. That would be all fine and dandy (for the adherents of said religions) if it was grouped in with, say, adultery.

However, gays are being persecuted and oppressed, all over the world, because the two younger Abrahamics claim homosexuality acts themselves are "immoral".

You are persecuting someone for being, essentially, gay.

Might as well oppresse all the Gingers in the world.

 

[Sahar]

It has everything to do with morals.

Homosexuality is claimed to be immoral by the Abrahamics. That would be all fine and dandy (for the adherents of said religions) if it was grouped in with, say, adultery.

However, gays are being persecuted and oppressed, all over the world, because the two younger Abrahamics claim homosexuality acts themselves are "immoral".

You are persecuting someone for being, essentially, gay.

Let me talk about Islam specifically, based on what should the Islamic stance on homosexuality change?
It also can be argued that some other sexual preferences' practices shouldn't be considered immoral or "sinful".

 

[AxisMundi]

Let me talk about Islam specifically, based on what should the Islamic stance on homosexuality change?
It also can be argued that some other sexual preferences' practices shouldn't be considered immoral or "sinful".

Religion has an inherent duty to adjust itself to modern sciences and thoughts, not the other way around. A religion that doesn't keep up with the times is doomed.

Also, "other sexual preferences"? Please define.

Homosexuality is about as much of a "sexual preference" as heterosexuality is.

I believe you are confused on the terms, which is quite common.

Homosexuality, bi-sexuality, and heterosexuality are "sexual orientations".

 

[.lava]

It has everything to do with morals.

Homosexuality is claimed to be immoral by the Abrahamics. That would be all fine and dandy (for the adherents of said religions) if it was grouped in with, say, adultery.

However, gays are being persecuted and oppressed, all over the world, because the two younger Abrahamics claim homosexuality acts themselves are "immoral".

You are persecuting someone for being, essentially, gay.

Might as well oppresse all the Gingers in the world.

hi i think two issues are mixing here. perceiving an act or a way of life as immoral or accepting certain actions to be sin is one thing, personal security is another. i don't think that people have right to tell me what i should believe. and yes, what i believe should not kill other


.

 

[Autodidact]

hi i think two issues are mixing here. perceiving an act or a way of life as immoral or accepting certain actions to be sin is one thing, personal security is another. i don't think that people have right to tell me what i should believe. and yes, what i believe should not kill other


.

You don't think other people have the right to tell you what you should believe, but you think you have the right to tell other people who to love?

 

[.lava]

You don't think other people have the right to tell you what you should believe, but you think you have the right to tell other people who to love?

when did i do that? or how did i do that? how does my way of life tell you whom to love?


.

 

[.lava]

here, what i think

love is divine. if you put your love in words, you would be making it less. because any kind of expression of love lessens it. sexuality is also a way of expression of love which lessens what's within you. because what's within you can't be expressed. this is of course my very personal opinion.

i think it is a social disease, if we are tend to show our love sexually. i love my parents for instance, i assume you love you mother too. so? despite people, i love nature. what am i suppose to do then?


.

 

[Autodidact]

when did i do that? or how did i do that? how does my way of life tell you whom to love?


.

Weren't you just telling us what a horrible sin homosexuality is?

 

[Autodidact]

here, what i think

love is divine. if you put your love in words, you would be making it less. because any kind of expression of love lessens it. sexuality is also a way of expression of love which lessens what's within you. because what's within you can't be expressed. this is of course my very personal opinion.

i think it is a social disease, if we are tend to show our love sexually. i love my parents for instance, i assume you love you mother too. so? despite people, i love nature. what am i suppose to do then?


.

So you're celibate then?

 

[.lava]

Weren't you just telling us what a horrible sin homosexuality is?

you've been talking to not4me i guess then i showed up.

yes, i believe homosexuality is a sin so it is my responsibility not to commit it if i really believe that. it is not the only sin anyway. there are 12 vices of ego and each vice would show itself in certain ways. ignorance, for instance, is a vice of ego. do you see any one who hates homosexuals actualy fighting ignorance? well, i don't. instead most of people fight other people though we are all ignorant creatures


.

 

[.lava]

So you're celibate then?

not exactly


.

 

[Autodidact]

you've been talking to not4me i guess then i showed up.

yes, i believe homosexuality is a sin so it is my responsibility not to commit it if i really believe that. it is not the only sin anyway. there are 12 vices of ego and each vice would show itself in certain ways. ignorance, for instance, is a vice of ego. do you see any one who hates homosexuals actualy fighting ignorance? well, i don't. instead most of people fight other people though we are all ignorant creatures


.

Sorry, my mistake.

Remember, this thread is about a statement that people who love other people of the same sex should be killed. I'm guessing you do not agree, but believe a lesser punishment is appropriate. That is what I was referring to.

No, I don't see anti-gay people fighting ignorance, I see them advocating and perpetuating it. So, yes, it would be nice if they would focus on their own sin, rather than trying to decide what punishment to hand out to me, who has not harmed anyone, and only wants to be free to love in my own way.

 

[Autodidact]

not exactly


.

I didn't think so. Yet your post was about how we should not have sex? Who should not have sex?

 

[.lava]

it would be nice if they would focus on their own sin, rather than trying to decide what punishment to hand out to me,

that's it. that's the only way to be a better Muslim (or a better person). if some religious person wants to help society be a better place, this is the direction. otherwise everyone fights mistakes of others. that's what makes people bigots, since their eyes are blind to their own sins and all they see is sins of others.

as i said before somewhere else...i don't know if there is a punishment for this Qur'an. but i asked about it before and i know it for sure, there is no death penalthy for gay people. also what people do in private is nobody's business to interfere. for that matter, i still could not figure out how come those young men who's killed by Iranian government were proven to be gay? i mean, how come it's proven?


.

 

[.lava]

I didn't think so. Yet your post was about how we should not have sex? Who should not have sex?

i wrote poems for years. even the deepest emotion loses its depths in words. because words are shallow, they have limits therefor they could be written and they could be seen. same with any kind of physical expression. they all have their limits. lovers just won't mix like colors do. i personally find yearning more alive than uniting. love appears to be stronger and deeper when object of your love was not materialized. but i must mention again, this is not about religion of Islam. this is my personal opinion


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