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Did Jesus say he was God???
- Thread starter Muffled
- Start date
Mary asks the angel the question at Luke 1:34 that how is this to be since she was having no intercourse with a man ? Although an engagement was considered as serious as marriage there was no pre-marital sex allowed under the Mosaic law. Mary and Joseph could have been put to death for fornication.
arimoff
Active Member
lol so G-D stole Mary from Joseph, sounds more Jerry Springer story then a bible story.
Or did someone steal a nap during the reading of Matthew and Luke?
Mary openly agreed to what was straightforwardly presented to her.
There was nothing secret about it. There was acknowledgment by the angel.
The cost was counted by Joseph and Joseph put forth all needed effort to comply.
Mary openly agreed to what was straightforwardly presented to her.
There was nothing secret about it. There was acknowledgment by the angel.
The cost was counted by Joseph and Joseph put forth all needed effort to comply.
arimoff
Active Member
I don't take naps during the Torah reading.
It is not about them knowing, its about G-D who gave His laws to people and later went against His own words. It sounds stupid. Such is a picture of Christianity compared to Judaism. Everything Christianity represents including their image of G-D and G-D Him self is totally the opposite of Judaism.
Judaism is set up according to the laws given in the Torah, a G-D given laws. How can G-D years later go against His own words and to even have a son?
and by saying G-D can't I don't mean it in a way as if we wants to He can, G-D is all capable, but He wouldn't go against His given laws especially during a time when people struggled following them.
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My comment was not meant to imply taking naps during the Torah reading.
Please accept my apology.
What about before the Mosaic Law? Genesis 3:15 (first prophecy) was given before the law. Who would be that 'seed' that would deal Satan a fatal death bruise to his head?
Doesn't Daniel (9:25,26) apply exclusively to the coming Messiah (Mashiach)?
Wouldn't Messiah be the promised 'seed' that would fulfill the promise to Abraham
(Gen 12:3; 22:17,18) that all families of the earth will be blessed, and all nations of the earth will be blessed?
Please accept my apology.
What about before the Mosaic Law? Genesis 3:15 (first prophecy) was given before the law. Who would be that 'seed' that would deal Satan a fatal death bruise to his head?
Doesn't Daniel (9:25,26) apply exclusively to the coming Messiah (Mashiach)?
Wouldn't Messiah be the promised 'seed' that would fulfill the promise to Abraham
(Gen 12:3; 22:17,18) that all families of the earth will be blessed, and all nations of the earth will be blessed?
arimoff
Active Member
I honestly did not understand what are you trying to say quoting those verses.
The first prophecy recorded in Scripture is located at Genesis 3:15.
There are two 'seeds' mentioned:
Satan's 'seed' or his heavenly and earthly followers.
The symbolic woman's 'seed' that would crush Satan out of existence.
This woman is not Mary, but God's wife-like organization.
Through that symbolic woman or wife would produce the Messiah.
The prophet Daniel believed there would be a coming Messiah.
Isn't the promise to Abraham going to be fulfilled ? (Gen 12:3; 22:17,18)
There are two 'seeds' mentioned:
Satan's 'seed' or his heavenly and earthly followers.
The symbolic woman's 'seed' that would crush Satan out of existence.
This woman is not Mary, but God's wife-like organization.
Through that symbolic woman or wife would produce the Messiah.
The prophet Daniel believed there would be a coming Messiah.
Isn't the promise to Abraham going to be fulfilled ? (Gen 12:3; 22:17,18)
Smoke
Done here.
According to the New Testament, they were neither engaged nor married, but betrothed. Betrothal is more serious than engagement; it requires a divorce to terminate a betrothal. But it is not yet marriage.
truth seeker
Member
Did Jesus say he was God
NOOOOOOOOOOOO
NOOOOOOOOOOOO
arimoff
Active Member
So you trying to say they divorced? Do you know Jewish laws regarding a divorce? Joseph and Miriam would then have to come to court to get a divorce, I can only imagine what happened when they said we want to get divorced G-D is gonna marry Miriam lol.
One example: there is a law that states if you meet a woman and she is attractive to you and she gets a divorce, you are not aloud to marry her.
G-D probably have never seen Miriam, love at first site ha? lol
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Muffled
Jesus in me
No! It only reveals that the person hasn't proved his point by the verse he used.
Of course this is true that ultimate authority rests in the Father. However that does not mean that such authority is pre-emptive of the authority of Jesus which is what I construe "over" to mean. And the difference in authority does not preclude Jesus from being divine.
I know this thread is long but I have explained this before. The Only god God can have is Himself. I would like to see someone try to find a passage where Jehovah says He has another god other than Himself.
Php 2:9 Wherefore also God highly exalted him, and gave unto him the name which is above every name;
This says to me that the name of Jesus is above the name of God ie Jehovah.
AK4
Well-Known Member
I posted this in another thread but it wasnt meant for it so i will post it here as to help prove Jesus called Himself a God. And i can show more if more are interested and of course this is just sticking with the Gospels if i expand to the whole bible then.... I will copy and paste even the person words i responded to
Mt 7:21-22 -Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mt 22:37 -Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. Mt 4:7 - Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
Mt 4:10 - then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Oh theres more, lots more. But i will stop there and do i even need to go to the book of Revelation? Truly the words of Jesus is true "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear"
Oh one more just for fun
Joh 18:5 - They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
Joh 18:6 - As soon then as he had said unto them,I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.
That "I am he" should just be "I AM", "he" is not in the greek. Think about it, did Jesus just say plainly i am he or did He say I AM with such authority and power that "they went backward, and fell to the ground"?
"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear"
Oh just to add more to one of the passages above, check this passage out
Mark 12:28-34 - 28 And one of the scribes came, .... asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord OUR God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord THY God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. .....32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: .... 34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.
Could it be any plainer? The Jews, the scribes and pharisees back then knew who He was and theres evidence of this all over too. Yet people today deny Jesus so much.
Mt 7:21-22 -Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mt 22:37 -Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. Mt 4:7 - Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
Mt 4:10 - then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Oh theres more, lots more. But i will stop there and do i even need to go to the book of Revelation? Truly the words of Jesus is true "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear"
Oh one more just for fun
Joh 18:5 - They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
Joh 18:6 - As soon then as he had said unto them,I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.
That "I am he" should just be "I AM", "he" is not in the greek. Think about it, did Jesus just say plainly i am he or did He say I AM with such authority and power that "they went backward, and fell to the ground"?
"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear"
Oh just to add more to one of the passages above, check this passage out
Mark 12:28-34 - 28 And one of the scribes came, .... asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord OUR God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord THY God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. .....32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: .... 34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.
Could it be any plainer? The Jews, the scribes and pharisees back then knew who He was and theres evidence of this all over too. Yet people today deny Jesus so much.
AK4
Well-Known Member
[continued from last post]
It doesn’t matter what “kurios” can mean cus it means what it means as in “the kurios theos”—Lord God. “You shall love the Lord [kurios] God [theos]….” Versus “You shall love the Lord [Jehovah] God [Elohim]….” Jesus came to unfold/reveal the Father not Himself.
Actually He is referring to Himself and the Father. To worship Him you worship the Father. Jesus Himself says this. They are one, not the same “entity”, but one in spirit.
So lets see. Jesus can do all that His Father/God can do and tempting Him is like tempting God, yet Jesus is not God? Pretty weird if ya ask me. The problem is people think God is the name of the Father. The word God is like a title. Jesus is called God. Satan is called a god. Ba’al [no pun intended] was called a god and as Paul even stated
1 Corinthians 8: 5 For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us there is {but} one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we {exist} for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we {exist} through Him.
Jesus is our God because from His Father/God all power in heaven and earth was given to Him so it is as you say “tempting him is like trying to tempt God”.
You didn’t see the connection in the earlier post?! Jesus referred or called Himself Lord as in Matt 7:21-22 and to connect it with verses like Matt 4:10 you should see the obvious. In any other form of literature people would make and see the connection but since its in the bible no one wants to see it.
In verse 8, again, it is just “I AM” not “I am he”. Jesus confirms being a Nazarene and also He confirms who He is by saying “I AM” not “I am he”. He does both not just one. That’s taking away from scripture to say He is only talking about being a Nazarene. Was it just a coincidence that Jesus asked them a second time who they were looking for? Was it just a coincidence or some sort of earthquake that happened only to those looking for Him that they fell backwards precisely when He said “I AM”? Do you think they didn’t hear Him the first time? Come now, the evidence is right there.
Oh and those verses just further proves my point. Jesus says He is the bread of life, good shepard, true vine. He has all power given to Him to be like a God because His Father gave Him this to make Him a God thus you have this verse when translated right to further confirm Jesus being made a God
Joh 1:18 - No man hath seen (5758) God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is (5752) in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared (5662) him.
Son is not translated right. The greek word is theos and It should be “the only begotten God”. How about further proof. Jesus says and quotes the prophets “they shall all be taught of God” and then states “Everyone who has HEARD and learn from the Father…not that anyone has seen the Father” and Jesus also stated “no man has seen or HEARD His voice at anytime”. So put it together you have Jesus saying those who are hearing from the Father [Jesus is a father (see Isa 45)] coming to Him. Jesus is not saying He is THE Father but a father. No one can hear the Father, but Jesus as the spokesman for God we can hear. He is our father and creator. The Father through Jesus created us. Hence they both are fathers.
Right and you and those jews agree that Jesus didn’t give a blasphemous answer. So when Jesus says He is Lord as in “many will say to ME Lord, Lord” and then quotes “shall love the Lord thy God” He is saying He is the Lord your God.
Yeah but that would be too easy and that’s just not how God works. Jesus could of saved those people back then too, but that’s not what He wanted to do at that time see John 12:37-41 and Matt 13:13-15. He purposely spoke in parables and not plain speech so He wouldn’t have to heal them. And this is still happening to this day.
The Gospels are littered with accounts showing the jews [especially the scribes and Pharisees] knew Jesus was the Christ, Teacher, Master, “Good Master”, “from God”. Just open up one of the gospels and see for yourself these statements. Everyone knows they crucified Him to try to keep their own power.
Jesus says and quotes the prophets “they shall all be taught of God” and then states “Everyone who has HEARD and learn from the Father…not that anyone has seen the Father” and Jesus also stated “no man has seen or HEARD His voice at anytime”. Let me add to this one too. Notice Jesus says to satan
Matt 4; 4 But He answered and said, "It is written, 'MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.' "
Now Jesus later tells everyone that no one can see or hear God at anytime, yet Jesus is saying here that actual words come out from (a) God. So in otherwords it is coming from Him the Spokesman for His God [the Father]. Yes Jesus has a God.
Yes [but kurios doesnt mean god] Jesus and the Father are not the same “entity”. Most of Christianity and the world don’t recognize this. They think of a 3 in 1 trinity or think that Jehovah was God the Father. Sorry that’s not me. Jehovah Elohim/Lord God is/was Jesus.
It doesn’t matter what “kurios” can mean cus it means what it means as in “the kurios theos”—Lord God. “You shall love the Lord [kurios] God [theos]….” Versus “You shall love the Lord [Jehovah] God [Elohim]….” Jesus came to unfold/reveal the Father not Himself.
Actually He is referring to Himself and the Father. To worship Him you worship the Father. Jesus Himself says this. They are one, not the same “entity”, but one in spirit.
So lets see. Jesus can do all that His Father/God can do and tempting Him is like tempting God, yet Jesus is not God? Pretty weird if ya ask me. The problem is people think God is the name of the Father. The word God is like a title. Jesus is called God. Satan is called a god. Ba’al [no pun intended] was called a god and as Paul even stated
1 Corinthians 8: 5 For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us there is {but} one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we {exist} for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we {exist} through Him.
Jesus is our God because from His Father/God all power in heaven and earth was given to Him so it is as you say “tempting him is like trying to tempt God”.
You didn’t see the connection in the earlier post?! Jesus referred or called Himself Lord as in Matt 7:21-22 and to connect it with verses like Matt 4:10 you should see the obvious. In any other form of literature people would make and see the connection but since its in the bible no one wants to see it.
In verse 8, again, it is just “I AM” not “I am he”. Jesus confirms being a Nazarene and also He confirms who He is by saying “I AM” not “I am he”. He does both not just one. That’s taking away from scripture to say He is only talking about being a Nazarene. Was it just a coincidence that Jesus asked them a second time who they were looking for? Was it just a coincidence or some sort of earthquake that happened only to those looking for Him that they fell backwards precisely when He said “I AM”? Do you think they didn’t hear Him the first time? Come now, the evidence is right there.
Oh and those verses just further proves my point. Jesus says He is the bread of life, good shepard, true vine. He has all power given to Him to be like a God because His Father gave Him this to make Him a God thus you have this verse when translated right to further confirm Jesus being made a God
Joh 1:18 - No man hath seen (5758) God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is (5752) in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared (5662) him.
Son is not translated right. The greek word is theos and It should be “the only begotten God”. How about further proof. Jesus says and quotes the prophets “they shall all be taught of God” and then states “Everyone who has HEARD and learn from the Father…not that anyone has seen the Father” and Jesus also stated “no man has seen or HEARD His voice at anytime”. So put it together you have Jesus saying those who are hearing from the Father [Jesus is a father (see Isa 45)] coming to Him. Jesus is not saying He is THE Father but a father. No one can hear the Father, but Jesus as the spokesman for God we can hear. He is our father and creator. The Father through Jesus created us. Hence they both are fathers.
Right and you and those jews agree that Jesus didn’t give a blasphemous answer. So when Jesus says He is Lord as in “many will say to ME Lord, Lord” and then quotes “shall love the Lord thy God” He is saying He is the Lord your God.
Yeah but that would be too easy and that’s just not how God works. Jesus could of saved those people back then too, but that’s not what He wanted to do at that time see John 12:37-41 and Matt 13:13-15. He purposely spoke in parables and not plain speech so He wouldn’t have to heal them. And this is still happening to this day.
The Gospels are littered with accounts showing the jews [especially the scribes and Pharisees] knew Jesus was the Christ, Teacher, Master, “Good Master”, “from God”. Just open up one of the gospels and see for yourself these statements. Everyone knows they crucified Him to try to keep their own power.
Jesus says and quotes the prophets “they shall all be taught of God” and then states “Everyone who has HEARD and learn from the Father…not that anyone has seen the Father” and Jesus also stated “no man has seen or HEARD His voice at anytime”. Let me add to this one too. Notice Jesus says to satan
Matt 4; 4 But He answered and said, "It is written, 'MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.' "
Now Jesus later tells everyone that no one can see or hear God at anytime, yet Jesus is saying here that actual words come out from (a) God. So in otherwords it is coming from Him the Spokesman for His God [the Father]. Yes Jesus has a God.
arimoff
Active Member
You really don't get it don't you? I still haven't gotten one answer rearding the problem with Jewsus calling Him self G-D.
Why is it so hard to understand that a man named Yeshuah with a good knowledge of Judaism would even think calling him self G-D, who would believe him? he lived in a society full of monotheists with laws prohibiting any kind of a physical image of G-D, he him self believed in One G-D how can he call him self G-D?
Only thing he did, was calling him self the Messiah. That is all that Jews were waiting for in those hard times, they weren't ever promised to be saved by a son of a G-D. Only Moshiah.
Charity
Let's go racing boys !
John 10:30 declares Jesus saying "I and the Father are one"
Jesus refers to God as "Father" in numerous scriptures
Mt 11:27 Jesus declares that "No one knows the Father except the Son.
When on the cross Jesus said "Father forgive them" showing a higher authority than himself.
Bible also states that Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father in Heaven.
God granted authority in Heaven and on earth to His Son, Jesus
I have personally never read a scripture where Jesus does not give glory and praise and reverence to "Father/God" as the supreme being.....
Many people especially non christians speak of God/Jesus as being synonymous....
Maybe there the same only different......
Now I've confused myself.....Oh well , where am I? what day is it? who are these people asking these questions?.....
Never mind I'm off to see the wizard of Oz, He will know the answers....He is all knowing also......
Jesus refers to God as "Father" in numerous scriptures
Mt 11:27 Jesus declares that "No one knows the Father except the Son.
When on the cross Jesus said "Father forgive them" showing a higher authority than himself.
Bible also states that Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father in Heaven.
God granted authority in Heaven and on earth to His Son, Jesus
I have personally never read a scripture where Jesus does not give glory and praise and reverence to "Father/God" as the supreme being.....
Many people especially non christians speak of God/Jesus as being synonymous....
Maybe there the same only different......
Now I've confused myself.....Oh well , where am I? what day is it? who are these people asking these questions?.....
Never mind I'm off to see the wizard of Oz, He will know the answers....He is all knowing also......
Yes, God exalted, God gave. Wouldn't that mean Jesus, after his resurrection, was given a new name by his God? see Rev 3:12
Every knee in all of creation would bend.- Phil 2:10. To 'God's' glory.- Phil 2:11.
Acts 4:12.
Isaiah also knew of Jesus having future exalted titles at Isaiah 9:6.
AK4
Well-Known Member
So in all that i just showed you were Jesus is calling Himself Lord as in Lord, Lord and telling the people to love the Lord thy God, you still dont see Him as saying that He was the representative/spokesman for the invisible, cant be seen or heard God the Father? You cant see that His God gave Him all the powers in heaven and earth to be like [a] God? If you could do all that the Father can do, basically have all the powers of a God, are you not a God to the creation you created? This is what Jesus is to us, a God, but Jesus being humble knows that all that He got was from His God, The Father.
So your right He didnt directly say He was God because like you said they would have stoned Him, but He did throw out there clues and He did mention many a times that He was Lord.
And yes as Charity said they are the same yet different "entities". Jesus is our God and Saviour and so is the Father our God and Saviour because through Him [Jesus] He has created us and everything else. Cant you see that before Jesus came to "reveal/unfold" the Father, no one knew about Him?
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Ba'al
Active Member
The word "lord" is used loosely. It is a translation of one of many things. You are picking and choosing which "lord" is to mean God. If Jesus meant "love me, because I am Yahweh" he most certainly would have said it because Jesus at times got frustrated at his diciples of their misunderstandings. As to Jesus being the spokeman for God, he most certainly was. That was the role of all prophets.
Jews didn't believe in more than 1 god, and no, they didn't beieve Jesus was god. There were many people and false prophets doing miracles(magic). It was not a sign of being God. It did not even occur to them.
Jesus could not do all the father could do. God did miracles through Jesus. Jesus says in John (11:41) "Father, I thank you that you have heard me. 42I knew that you always hear me, but I said this for the benefit of the people standing here, that they may believe that you sent me."
Jesus acknowledging that his father heard him confirms Jesus' power came from God. And, thanked God aloud so the people would believe God sent Jesus, NOT that people would believe he is God.
Jesus didn't directly say he was God becasuse Jesus didn't beleive he was. Why would Jesus be afraid of getting stoned if he was God?
God did not create everything through Jesus. It says that nowhere in the Torah. AK4, Christianity was never a unified religion, especially before the 4rth century. There were christians that believed many different things. The doctrine that Jesus was God was an early christian teaching of a church that had theological and political agendas. When Constantine became emperor in the 4rth century he adopted orthadox christainity and basically tried to eliminate all other forms and teachings of christianity. The fact that the Jesus/God doctrine happened to be on the winning side does not mean it's correct, in fact, because that church was so cruel and corrupt it's all the more reason to question it.