US Army Deserter Living The High Life In Duetschland

[Storm]

"A spokesman for the U.S. Army in Europe said the military is aware of the asylum case but that it is "completely in German hands." If Mr. Shepherd is returned to U.S. custody, though, he could face up to five years in prison under military laws."

Yes, yes. Sources are always superior. Doesn't make me a fearmonger.

 

[McBell]

Not deliberately. I just knew that desertion was punishable by the death penalty, I didn't look it up. And I wasn't wrong, it's still possible, according to your source.

I realize that it was not deliberate.


Even if he were to actually face the death penalty for his actions I do not feel one bit sorry for him. He knew the consequences BEFORE he acted. He acted anyway.
Now he is trying to avoid said consequences.

 

[Apex]

Reading the article further, the guy did not even see combat. He was a mechanic! He is not running away from fighting and possible death, he is running away from repairing Apache helicopters!

 

[Storm]

Reading the article further, the guy did not even see combat. He was a mechanic! He is not running away from fighting and possible death, he is running away from repairing Apache helicopters!

So? To my mind, that's just evidence that he's not motivated by cowardice.

 

[Apex]

So? To my mind, that's just evidence that he's not motivated by cowardice.

His reason for not wanting to repair the helicopters is not cowardice, he attributes it to killing. However, his reason for hiding in Germany is cowardice, he is afraid to face the consequences of his actions.

 

[McBell]

"A spokesman for the U.S. Army in Europe said the military is aware of the asylum case but that it is "completely in German hands." If Mr. Shepherd is returned to U.S. custody, though, he could face up to five years in prison under military laws."

True, however, under federal law he COULD face the death penalty.
In fact, unless there was a change I do not know about (which is possible) it is death by firing squad.

Yes, yes. Sources are always superior. Doesn't make me a fearmonger.

I agree.

 

[Storm]

Tell me, were slaves who escaped to the North or Canada cowards? After all, they were hiding from the consequences of their actions, no?

 

[McBell]

Reading the article further, the guy did not even see combat. He was a mechanic! He is not running away from fighting and possible death, he is running away from repairing Apache helicopters!

It is my understanding that he is claiming his actions are because of his principles.
Sounds like (at least to me):

I do not want to be part of a an illegal war so I am going to to illegally break my contract.....
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His reason for not wanting to repair the helicopters is not cowardice, he attributes it to killing. However, his reason for hiding in Germany is cowardice, he is afraid to face the consequences of his actions.

I agree

 

[McBell]

Tell me, were slaves who escaped to the North or Canada cowards? After all, they were hiding from the consequences of their actions, no?

Non sequitur strawman.

 

[Storm]

Non sequitur strawman.

Howso? It's an analogy.

 

[Apex]

Tell me, were slaves who escaped to the North or Canada cowards? After all, they were hiding from the consequences of their actions, no?

Did they volunteer to be slaves?

 

[McBell]

Howso? It's an analogy.

I concede that it is not a strawman as presented.

However, it is a non sequiter.

The slaves did not volunteer.
The slaves did not enter into a contract.

 

[stacey bo bacey]

His reason for not wanting to repair the helicopters is not cowardice, he attributes it to killing. However, his reason for hiding in Germany is cowardice, he is afraid to face the consequences of his actions.

Yea duh, I would be, too. And ******. Why would ANYONE voluntarily turn themselves in over some stupid *** law they "broke" that they were morally opposed to? Of course he's not gonna go running into their handcuffs.

 

[Storm]

Did they volunteer to be slaves?

Now, that's a fair point. I don't know enough about the soldier in question, and I'm more interested in discussing the principles than the specific case, anyway. Did you see the post about my cousin? Would you hold the same opinion if he had deserted and sought asylum?

Some questions for you, Apex, purely for clarification:
1) What do you think of conscientious objectors in general?
2) Draft dodgers?
3) Civil disobedience in general?
4) Do you support the US' actions in Iraq?
5) What about Afghanistan?

Sorry for the barrage.

 

[McBell]

Yea duh, I would be, too. And ******. Why would ANYONE voluntarily turn themselves in over some stupid *** law they "broke" that they were morally opposed to? Of course he's not gonna go running into their handcuffs.

Seems a bit hypocritical of him to join the army and then complain that people die during war....

 

[stacey bo bacey]

True, however, under federal law he COULD face the death penalty.
In fact, unless there was a change I do not know about (which is possible) it is death by firing squad.


I agree.

How dignified of our 21st century military.

 

[stacey bo bacey]

Seems a bit hypocritical of him to join the army and then complain that people die during war....

People make mistakes. People don't always want the same thing they did however many years ago they joined the military. He wants to go, let em go.

 

[Apex]

Now, that's a fair point. I don't know enough about the soldier in question, and I'm more interested in discussing the principles than the specific case, anyway. Did you see the post about my cousin? Would you hold the same opinion if he had deserted and sought asylum?

Yes, I would.

Some questions for you, Apex, purely for clarification:
1) What do you think of conscientious objectors in general?
2) Draft dodgers?
3) Civil disobedience in general?
4) Do you support the US' actions in Iraq?
5) What about Afghanistan?

1) No problem with them as long as they do not join the military.
2) Not sure.
3) No problem with it as long as it is done peacefully.
4) The intentions, yes. How it was actually carried out, not so much.
5) I support the actions there.

 

[Apex]

How dignified of our 21st century military.

It is a law left over from times long past. It has not been enforced since WWII.

 

[Storm]

Yes, I would.

Then the slavery analogy applies. My cousin did not volunteer for the Iraq conflict, and would not have volunteered had he known it was coming.

1) No problem with them as long as they do not join the military.
2) Not sure.
3) No problem with it as long as it is done peacefully.
4) The intentions, yes. How it was actually carried out, not so much.
5) I support the actions there.

Thanks.

1) What about COs who are drafted and refuse to perform their duties?
3) What is the crucial difference between desertion and other forms of civil disobedience?
4) What do you understand the intentions to be?