Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
The point you were trying to make. What is it?
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Why have Christians forgotten the fourth Commandment?
- Thread starter d.n.irvin
- Start date
Heneni
Miss Independent
Thank you for your answer. How does observing the sabbath, the sabbath you believe in, help you collect the ultimate reward? Walking worthy of your calling, means walking worthy of it everyday, and celebrating god everyday is more of an indication that we love him, than setting one day specially apart for such.
I'll go to the 'ten commandments - who are they binding on' thread and have a look at what you say there...but i can already tell you that there is only one binding commandment and that is to love god. If you do, you will do all that makes him happy. Does observing the ten commandments make god happy? Or does loving him. It is possible to follow all the rules in your moms house, without really loving her. Following rules and regulations isnt a sign that we love, rather, if we love, we will make god happy.
If somebody wasnt born under the law, would they be required to keep it?
If I wasnt born into your family, would i be required to obey your parents rules?
Heneni
AK4
Well-Known Member
Well im not defending his sabbath keeping because you are right about doing that everyday, following his rules/commandments are a sign that we love him but we dont do it to the Letter we do it in spirit. Since Jesus is God of the OT too what did Jesus say----
Joh 14:15 - If you loveme, you will obey what I command.
And how do we love him?
John 14:23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me
MT 22:37 Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Doesnt both of those commandments cover all ten---Think about it.
What are His teachings? They are the ten commandments, but on a higher spiritual level for example covet and divorce and stealing etc etc in just these verses...
Matthew 5:27-32 27 "You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell. 31 "It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.' 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.
We obey all ten commands in spirit not by letter or observing certain days--
Joh 4:23 - Show Context
Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father inspirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
Joh 4:24 - Show Context
God is spirit, and his worshipers must worshipinspirit and in truth."
Php 3:3 - Show Context
For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh--
Its really simple when you look at it spiritually:rainbow1:
mikmik
Member
Are you serious? Okay. You interpret this scripture to mean that we are to scrap what we are doing and don't worry about it. You are wrong. This scripture tells us don't worry about what every one else says about the Sabbaths, hold fast and do them anyway, and even warns you not to let others convince you otherwise, or you will lose out in the end.
mik
Heneni
Miss Independent
Ok but the law forbid some things to be done on the sabbath, and jesus broke those laws himself. So what would that mean then? Did it stop jesus from getting the reward?
BrasenWall
Member
On a nother thread we were discussing the kjv as opposed to other translations. I believe AK4 has provin what i was saying. What ever version he was reading changed the WORD commandments to commands as to throw off those who read that version.
As to the 2 great commandments
MATT.22 [35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, [36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?[37] Jesus said unto him, THOU SHALT LOVE THE LORD THY GOD WITH ALL THY HEART, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.[38] This is the first and great commandment.[39] And the second is like unto it, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF.[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Why do you believe that we no longer need keep Gods commandments because of what Jesus said in Matthew?
DEUT.6 [5] And THOU SHALT LOVE THE LORD THY GOD WITH ALL THINE HEART, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.[6] And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart [17] Ye shall diligently KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS of the LORD your God, and his testimonies, and his statutes, which he hath commanded thee.
Jesus was only quoting scriptures from the old testament. And as you can see in above scripture the way to love GOD is to keep diligently the commandments.
1JOHN 5 [2] By this we know that we love the children of God, WHEN WE LOVE GOD, AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.[3] For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
And the new testament verifies the old testament as to how we are to show our love for God? In the new testament book of John. When we love God, we keep His commandments.
LEV.19 [17] Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.[18] Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF: I am the LORD.
Again (thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself) Jesus is quoting scripture from the old testament. Do you agree that the people who lived in old testament times were under the 10 commandments. Of course they were. So why when Jesus quotes old testament scripture do you think the 10 commandments are now done away with?
2JOHN1 [5] And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that WE LOVE ONE ANOTHER.[6] AND THIS IS LOVE, THAT WE WALK AFTER HIS COMMANDMENTS. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
In John, you can read how we are to love our neighbour according to the NEW TESTAMENT. Its the same way that it says in the old testament. KEEP GODS 10 COMMANDMENTS. Jesus is the same today, yesterday and forever.
mikmik
Member
Matt 22.36 Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said to him, You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.
He was asked which is the greatest commandment in the law (there are 10 commandments in the Law, correct?) His answer was indeed loving God, and loving your neighbor. He was not then asked, hey, those aren't commandments, are those new? Why not? Becuase of the next statement,, on these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. He was summing up the commandments into two catagories.. Love your God (by following 1-4), and love your neighbor (5-10). He did not single out any commandment to be change or voided. Why do so many assume that there was this big doctinal change in this statement? They understood He was not introducing anything new, or replacing anything, or voiding anything, simply summing them up for us (yes, as an act of love). Like you would tell your kids.. You tell them all the time, don't hit, don't kick, don't yell at each other, stop fighting, etc.. Well, that has been said so many times that eventually you just say; Look, BE NICE to each other, that's all I want. Does that mean they won't get into trouble if they kick or hit, if they truly love eachother, and were really trying to be nice? Not a chance. My summary of the rules does not change them.
Jesus was our perfect example of how to live righteously. He kept the commandments, including the Sabbaths. God said for all to hear,, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
He made the covenant with Abraham, because he followed His commandments, statutes and laws... might be fair to state that He was happy with him. He saved Noah's family because Noah was righteous,, following the commandments of God. Again, I do assume that He was happy with him as well.
mik
mikmik
Member
Jesus didn't sin. God gave the Sabbath to man. Man took it, and added their own extra restrictions and guidelines to it. Jesus broke man's rules for the Sabbath, He did not violet what God intended for the Sabbath. That is exactly what His message was. The Jews were so worried about the letter of the law that they were missing the point of it. They didn't love the day, it was a burden to them. Just like do not murder... people might not murder someone they hate, but they still were guilty of hate. So keeping the law in spirit expanded the law.. Do not murder expanded to what was in the mind and heart of man,, the attitude counts, just like the actions. The actions must be right, and the attitude must be love,, or you are still guilty of sin. So the Sabbath is a rest. If you do that in action, but don't have the joy of the day and what it means to us, and what it means to God, you are guilty of sin. Why would one verse mean tighter restrictions on one commandment, but loosen the restrictions on another,, almost into non-existence,, or at least leaving it with no resemblance to its original state? THAT is confusing. Across the board, the 10 commandments ARE the 10 commandments forever.. and you must follow them in deed, and in the spirit of love. So NOT confusing.
mik
AK4
Well-Known Member
Wow. First when i put commands it was a typo on my part--commandments. Now where are getting that i said we are not to follow His commandments? We are!! Spiritually. You follow the commandments like that, in spirit not to the letter. The letter kills.
2Co 3:6 - Show Context He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant--not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
Theres the NIV there--I dont put my stamp on just one translation. I like the NIV because its easier to understand, but i have more verses "memorised" from the KJV.
Anyway what is mankind to be rewarded and judged on? Works. But its by faith we are justified and our works do not save us or make us look better in HIs eyes. Sounds like a contradiction dont it, but it aint. Its not your works that make you righteous its your faith.
I Agree that the whole world has to follow His commands---oops commandments
. I dont know if it was in this thread or not but i put forth a post about this.Didnt you read my whole last post? What didnt you understand?
AK4
Oh you got offended because i said something about your precious sabbath (fri sunset to sat sunset). Cant you see how when you say " I keep the sabbath" it makes you think you are more righteous than those who say they dont. Its no different than those who say "i am circumcised" or "I have this baptism" or "I am of this denomination" etc etc. Its boasting and prideful and just another "idol of the heart"
Ben Masada
Well-Known Member
BrasenWall
Member
Hi AK4
Im just glad you even spoke to me. I thought i was being shunned. Wouldnt be the 1st time. So how do you think i should keep "my precious sabbath" in the spirit of the law? How do you keep the spirit of the law and not keep the letter?
2 COR. 3 [6] WHO ALSO HATH MADE US ABLE MINISTERS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT; NOT OF THE LETTER, BUT OF THE SPIRIT: FOR THE LETTER KILLETH, BUT THE SPIRIT GIVETH LIFE. [7] BUT IF THE MINISTRATION OF DEATH, WRITTEN AND ENGRAVEN IN STONES, WAS GLORIOUS, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: [8] HOW SHALL NOT THE MINISTRATION OF THE SPIRIT BE RATHER GLORIOUS? [9] For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. [10] For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. [11] FOR IF THAT WHICH IS DONE AWAY WAS GLORIOUS, MUCH MORE THAT WHICH REMAINETH IS GLORIOUS.
As we can see in above scripture we are now to walk in the spirit of the law. If we walk in only the letter of the law this will lead to death, but if we walk in the spirit of the law this leads to life.
ROMANS 7 [6] But now we are DELIVERED FROM THE LAW, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should SERVE IN NEWNESS OF SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE OLDNESS OF THE LETTER.
In Romans youll find the same thing being said. Keep the law in newness of spirit and be delivered from the (curse) of the letter. Did Jesus explain how we are to walk in newness of the spirit? Sure did.
MATTHEW 5 [20] For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. [21] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, THOU SHALT NOT KILL; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: [22] BUT I SAY UNTO YOU, THAT WHOSOEVER IS ANGRY WITH HIS BROTHER WITHOUT A CAUSE SHALL BE IN DANGER OF THE JUDGMENT: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
OLD LETTER- Thou shalt not kill
NEW SPIRIT- Dont even get angry. Call no man a fool. Love one another in thought, word and deed.
MATTHEW 5 [27] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY: [28] BUT I SAY UNTO YOU, THAT WHOSOEVER LOOKETH ON A WOMAN TO LUST AFTER HER HATH COMMITTED ADULTERY WITH HER ALREADY IN HIS HEART.
OLD LETTER- Thou shalt not commit adultery
NEW SPIRIT- Do not look on a woman to lust. Keep the law in our mind and spirit. Even in our eyes.
So you can see that Jesus did not do away with the letter of the law. Common sense will tell ya in order to walk in the spirit of the law you must also be walking in the letter. Can you commit the very act of adultry and then claim you have not sinned because you did not lust after her with your eyes because they were closed. Jesus made the commandments even harder to keep and more honorable.
ISAIAH 42 [20] Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not.[21] The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; HE WILL MAGNIFY THE LAW, and make it honourable.
Yes, Jesus magnified the law. He took the letter of the law (which leads to death) and magnified the law to a spiritual level (which leads to life). Aint the WORD of God great AK4
mikmik
Member
...(mikmik)Just like do not murder... people might not murder someone they hate, but they still were guilty of hate. So keeping the law in spirit expanded the law.. Do not murder expanded to what was in the mind and heart of man,, the attitude counts, just like the actions. The actions must be right, and the attitude must be love,, or you are still guilty of sin.
+++Ben: - That's not true at all. Jesus did not expand the commandment not to murder by warning not to hate. He simply built a fence around the Law. I mean, if you prevent yourself from hating someone, the crime of murder will become remote.
However, one is not guilty of the sin of murder if he never act upon it.
+++Ben: - Therefore, the sin resides in the action, not in the thought.
Ben
21 You have heard that it was said to those of old, You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment. 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment.
27 You have heard that it was said to those of old, You shall not commit adultery. 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Sorry Ben,, this does not say don't hate, so that it won't lead to murder,, or don't lust so that it doesn't lead to adultery. This says that if you do it in your mind and heart, then you are guilty of the action. The deed of the law was expanded to include the spirit of the law, not to be replaced by it. The actions and the spirit go hand in hand.
James 2.18 But someone will say, You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.... 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
mik
mikmik
Member
lol.. Wow, BW.. I didn't see your post until after I posted my last one, but they really say the same thing. Hey, can a person state that they keep the Sabbath as a statement of fact, and not be attempting to sound self-righteous? I think so, especially since it seems to be the topic here. Everyone thinks their view is correct, and presents it as truth over what others say.. just in an attempt to make a point,, after all, it is a debate.
mik
AK4
Well-Known Member
Yes It is!!! I see we are in agreement. When the Truth is revealed, oh the feeling one recieves is unexplainable--well at least for me.
AK4
Well-Known Member
I guess it could be done, but i seriously think that it may be an idol of their heart, believe me i came out of that kind of babylon. I was sabbath keeper, so i know what an idol of the heart it makes on one.
I remember my old pastor parroting about keeping the sabbath and that we were the true people of God because we keep the sabbath. I remember someone asked him what is the one thing that someone must do to come to God--He answered keep the sabbath, not Jesus (of course now that i know the truth about free will no one can come to God on their own). He preached the sabbath the sabbath the sabbath but rarely ever said anything of Jesus. He really made everyone of his congregation including me, have the sabbath as an idol of the heart and we were more righteous than those who didnt keep it.
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AK4
Well-Known Member
:clap:clapexactly
mikmik
Member
Q1: If you want to be a part of the promise of eternal life, then this is a choice that you make. We have a relationship with God. NO relationship is one-sided. He is our Father. Just like our earthly parents, they expect things from us. They will love us no matter what, but when we do not obey, they are not happy, and constant defiance weakens the bond with your parents (enter the teen-ager). Can we honestly love our parents with all our hearts, yet walk around their house, breaking their rules, and think that we will always remain there by the grace of their love for us? As long as you live in my house, you will follow my rules.. ever hear that from a parent? So the teen (assume he is 18 of course) leaves. Parent's love is still there, teen's love can still be there, but the bond is weak, and the parents protection and daily guidance is now gone. Flip side; can the teen be there and follow every rule, and never show affection and love towards the parent, and please them? If they don't have a real love for their parent, chances are, though they are technically following rules, they fall short of what a parent expects from a child. This would weaken the bond of the relationship as well. The action and the love are both needed for a happy and healthy relationship and bond. If you want to be born of this relationship with your Father, then you are required to do your part. With love in your heart, it shouldn't feel like you are just trying to meet a requirement.
Gal 3.26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christs, then you are Abrahams seed, and heirs according to the promise.
If you choose this relationship with God, then you choose to be a part of the whole thing.
Q2: No, you wouldn't have to obey my parent's rules. But in the bible, there are only two families to choose from, the god of this age, and the one true God. You only need to follow the rules of the one that you choose.
mik
Ben Masada
Well-Known Member
+++++++++++++++
Use your commonsense and think. One is condemned by breaking the Law. Jesus comes and expands the transgression into the realm of the spirit. Now, if one even thinks about breaking the Law, he has broken it. He is condemned for just thinking in his mind. So, what's the use for this so-called new covenant? We are better off the old fashion way, when condenation was accounted only for the deed and not the
thought. Viva Judaism that as long as we don't act upon our thought there is no harm done.
Ben :clap
BrasenWall
Member
Common cents-more than gold or silver
more than my 2 cents is worth
Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
The "many" will say Jesus did away with the law. The "few" will believe the scriptures.
Romans 7:14
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.