Faith vs Logic

[Don Penguinoini]

Which is more important? What is the stronger force out of the two?

(No poll required, trust me)

Thanks in advance

 

[Cordoba]

Both are important

Logic actually leads to faith ...

Which is stronger?

As we know very little of this amazing universe, as long as we are certain of real unchanged Divine Guidance, faith in the information we have from our Creator who created this universe (imo) is more reliable

Why?

Simply because for us, all what we see out there is historical information, which goes back 8 minutes in the case of the real location of the sun right now, and millions and billions of years on the location of distant stars and galaxies

How can you rely on logic alone when it's based on outdated information?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Both are important

Logic actually leads to faith ...

And faith is the foundation of logic.

 

[.lava]

Which is more important? What is the stronger force out of the two?

(No poll required, trust me)

Thanks in advance

logic could not include faith but faith does include logic.
logic is like cloud and faith -in that case- is like sky.
so? so, i am saying they are both on the same side. they are not opposites.

 

[Popeyesays]

Which is more important? What is the stronger force out of the two?

(No poll required, trust me)

Thanks in advance

If one holds to religious belief that flies in the face of rational thought, then one is clinging to superstition not religion.

Regards,

Scott

 

[ChristineES]

I think we need a balance of both.

 

[Escéptico]

If one holds to religious belief that flies in the face of rational thought, then one is clinging to superstition not religion.

:bow:

And yet certain religious beliefs are held merely because they do fly in the face of rational thought. It's a demonstration of the purity of one's faith to profess belief in an idea (like John 3:16) that is explicitly irrational.

 

[Manipulated]

I would say faith and logic are opposites.faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen.Logic is like a science and can be reasoned or proven.

 

[BucephalusBB]

(real) logic is a worldlanguage, faith is personal. I cling more to logic, but I can see how somebody would prefer the personal faith.
So the importance would differ per person.

I would say faith and logic are opposites.

Nah, I have faith in gravity and that's quite logical, so they shouldn't be completelly the opposite.

 

[wednesday]

(real) logic is a worldlanguage, faith is personal. I cling more to logic, but I can see how somebody would prefer the personal faith.
So the importance would differ per person.



Nah, I have faith in gravity and that's quite logical, so they shouldn't be completelly the opposite.

Lol, family guy episode starring Mel Gibson. "don't worry, christians don't believe in science."
Depends on the individual, to me faith means nothing, its just a topic of interest, but for some faith and logic go hand in hand. Depends on whether you see the glass half empty or half full.

 

[Manipulated]

(real) logic is a worldlanguage, faith is personal. I cling more to logic, but I can see how somebody would prefer the personal faith.
So the importance would differ per person.



Nah, I have faith in gravity and that's quite logical, so they shouldn't be completelly the opposite.

Gravity can be proven,so how then can you have real faith in it?

 

[BucephalusBB]

Gravity can be proven,so how then can you have real faith in it?

I have faith in the fact that it won't stop working before my time is out.
Saw the smiley? I always use those to express my "don't take to serious" posts

 

[rocketman]

Sorry, couldn't help but throw this in:

Spock: "History is replete with turning points, lieutenant. You must have faith."
Valeris: "Faith?"
Spock: "That the universe will unfold as it should."
Valeris: "But..is that .. logical??"
Spock: "Logic, logic, logic. Logic...is the beginning of wisdom Valeris, not the end."

Star Trek 6~The Undiscovered Country

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings!

It is a great mistake to view faith and logic as some sort of dichotomy in mutual opposition!

Properly viewed, faith and logic dovetail very nicely, and indeed compliment each other, as do the somewhat narrower topics of science and religion!

So some of us--and Baha'is in particular--have no problem whatever embracing both!

Indeed, it's truly regrettable that the title of this thread is "Faith vs. logic" instead of "Faith and logic" since this immediately implies a conflict that needn't exist at all!

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Escéptico]

Properly viewed, faith and logic dovetail very nicely, and indeed compliment each other, as do the somewhat narrower topics of science and religion!

I assume you intend 'properly viewed' to mean 'incomprehensibly redefined.'

A Baha'i already posted a very cogent statement in this thread: If one holds to religious belief that flies in the face of rational thought, then one is clinging to superstition not religion.

That is, logic without faith is useful. Faith is fine as long as it's informed in some fashion by rational thought. Faith without logic is superstition.

 

[BruceDLimber]

I assume you intend 'properly viewed' to mean 'incomprehensibly redefined.'

No not in the least!

A Baha'i already posted a very cogent statement in this thread: If one holds to religious belief that flies in the face of rational thought, then one is clinging to superstition not religion.

That is, logic without faith is useful. Faith is fine as long as it's informed in some fashion by rational thought. Faith without logic is superstition.

I'm well aware of his statement, and fully agree with it! None of which changes what I said.

Both faith and logic--or if you prefer, science and religion--have important roles to play in all this, as I indicated.

In the Baha'i view science and religion are NOT in contradiction, but rather dovetail very nicely!

Science may be said to explain the "how" of things, whereas religion explains "Who" and "why." They thus address different, largely non-overlapping domains, but come together nicely to form a complete whole!

The quickest way to get into trouble is to use either one without the other!: Science without religion is gross materialism (bigger and better nukes); religion without science is superstition (witch-burning).

And the Baha'i scriptures also say (sorry: I don't have the citation handy) that if a religious doctrine disagrees with established science, then that doctrine is simply wrong.

There is also this marvelous quote from 'Abdu'l-Baha in the Baha’i scriptures:

“[E]ven in Europe it is admitted that religion is the opponent of science, and that science is the destroyer of the foundations of religion. While the religion of God is the promoter of truth, the founder of science and knowledge, it is full of goodwill for learned men; it is the civilizer of mankind, the discoverer of the secrets of nature, and the enlightener of the horizons of the world. Consequently, how can it be said to oppose knowledge? God forbid! Nay, for God, knowledge is the most glorious gift of man and the most noble of human perfections. To oppose knowledge is ignorant, and he who detests knowledge and science is not a man, but rather an animal without intelligence. For knowledge is light, life, felicity, perfection, beauty and the means of approaching the Threshold of Unity. It is the honor and glory of the world of humanity, and the greatest bounty of God. Knowledge is identical with guidance, and ignorance is real error.

“Happy are those who spend their days in gaining knowledge, in discovering the secrets of nature, and in penetrating the subtleties of pure truth! Woe to those who are contented with ignorance, whose hearts are gladdened by thoughtless imitation, who have fallen into the lowest depths of ignorance and foolishness, and who have wasted their lives!”
—(Some Answered Questions, page 137)

I hope this helps clarify things.

Regards,

Bruce

 

[Escéptico]

Science may be said to explain the "how" of things, whereas religion explains "Who" and "why." They thus address different, largely non-overlapping domains, but come together nicely to form a complete whole!

Bruce, let's not overstate the case. It seems to me that many people seek in religion the warm fuzzies they don't get from science. And far be it from me to tell them they're wrong for doing so. But religion doesn't explain anything. It doesn't explain who, it doesn't explain why.

It's typical that you think 'science without religion is gross materialism,' because that demonstrates the believer's prejudiced view of scientific inquiry. Hasn't science told us meaningful things about the universe and life on Earth? Doesn't it tell us a lot about ourselves and our place in everything?

If not, maybe you 'detest knowledge and science' more than you want to admit.

 

[logician]

Bruce, let's not overstate the case. It seems to me that many people seek in religion the warm fuzzies they don't get from science. And far be it from me to tell them they're wrong for doing so. But religion doesn't explain anything. It doesn't explain who, it doesn't explain why.

It's typical that you think 'science without religion is gross materialism,' because that demonstrates the believer's prejudiced view of scientific inquiry. Hasn't science told us meaningful things about the universe and life on Earth? Doesn't it tell us a lot about ourselves and our place in everything?

If not, maybe you 'detest knowledge and science' more than you want to admit.

You are correct, the "who" and "why" according to religion are much more of a dictum than an explanation.

 

[Magic Man]

I assume you intend 'properly viewed' to mean 'incomprehensibly redefined.'

A Baha'i already posted a very cogent statement in this thread: If one holds to religious belief that flies in the face of rational thought, then one is clinging to superstition not religion.

That is, logic without faith is useful. Faith is fine as long as it's informed in some fashion by rational thought. Faith without logic is superstition.

No, I think he means in a normal open-minded sense.

The bold part is impossible. No such thing as logic without faith.

 

[Escéptico]

No, I think he means in a normal open-minded sense.

I love how I get characterized as neither normal nor open-minded. I fail to see how this supports the point about religion explaining who and why.

The bold part is impossible. No such thing as logic without faith.

You never get tired of your favorite shell game, do you, Matt?