vandervalley
Active Member
The American flag and the former World trade centre ain't religious symbols (or idols if you like)
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Isn't Islam an idol worshiping religion?
- Thread starter K.Venugopal
- Start date
The American flag and the former World trade centre ain't religious symbols (or idols if you like)
I think we see this quite often in the world's various fundamentalisms. Good point, Bill!
My point is that people are easily incited to violence by perceived disparagement of various symbols, religious or otherwise.
K.Venugopal
Immobile Wanderer
Without uttering the word Allah or without reading the word Allah in the Quran, would you have got to know Allah? Similarly, iconography is another way to know God. To the extent you've got to know Allah through the spoken or written word, to that extent Allah does exist in the word. However great Allah is, we've got to conceive him through our limited mind. Our limited mind and senses would always do well with help, whether through idols or the telescope.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Some of us - as you clearly demonstrate here - are more limited than others.
K.Venugopal
Immobile Wanderer
A symbol is something that represents something else. Similarly, an idol as seen in temples represents God. My original query was, does Kaaba represent God? Muslims certainly do not think so. They consider it blasphemy to associate anything with God and do not represent Him in any form. Hindus, on the other hand, associate each and everything with God and have no problems in representing God in any form. My thesis is that however much Islam teaches the exclusivity of Allah, in practical application, the Muslim is in need of idols as much as any idol-worshiping Hindu. Total freedom from idols of all sorts may be the prerogative of only a microscopic minority in every generation, the totally spiritualized individuals. For the rest of us, we are all in the same idols-bearing boat.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
No, the idol is the god. Icons represent god. Ignoring the difference to troll a religion that rejects idolatry is feeble and intellectually dishonest.
K.Venugopal
Immobile Wanderer
Being from a culture of idol worshippers par excellence, may I point out that till certain ceremonies are conducted, an idol remains lifeless. After the ceremony, the idol is surcharged with subtle vibrations of life forces which would enable the idol-worshipper to be transported to divine levels. The science of transforming an icon that represents God to an idol that is surcharged with the subtle divine vibrations is a science that is still extant with the Hindus. No hocus pocus here. If we can't conjure idols, mercy on God that we have been allowed to keep icons.
Don Penguinoini
Modi.
You need to do Murti Prashistha to make the idols have the essence of god. Or, at least you do in Swaminarayan...
Hema
Sweet n Spicy
Namaste and welcome to the forum Venugopal.
No he isn't under 13..not sure what that has to do with this though.
No he isn't under 13..not sure what that has to do with this though.
vandervalley
Active Member
So can you agree with me that most Muslims treat their symbols as if they are idols and would go to extreme measures to worship their symbols/idols?
Where'd you come up with that? Muslims worshipping symbols/idols?
A percived mistreatment or disparagement of a symbol is interpreted as insulting the thing symbolized.
If a person strongly identifies with the referent, if he's incorporated it into his ego identity, then disparaging the symbol is tantamount to an attack on the person himself, his values, society or lifestyle.
A percived mistreatment or disparagement of a symbol is interpreted as insulting the thing symbolized.
If a person strongly identifies with the referent, if he's incorporated it into his ego identity, then disparaging the symbol is tantamount to an attack on the person himself, his values, society or lifestyle.
vandervalley
Active Member
Some religious people who worship idols get angry when their idols got damaged or mocked by others.
At the same time there are others who claim they do not worship idols but when a name or a book is mocked or used in a way they do not approve they get angry and start attcking people.
So in this case may I know who the real idol worshippers are?
K.Venugopal
Immobile Wanderer
In the on-going discussion on idol worship, I think at this point we need to define what exactly constitutes worship.
vandervalley
Active Member
Worship:
1.reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred.
2.formal or ceremonious rendering of such honor and homage: They attended worship this morning.
3.adoring reverence or regard: excessive worship of business success.
4.the object of adoring reverence or regard.
worship - Definitions from Dictionary.com
I stand by my view that the action of physically attacking others because of a religious book or a name has being used by unbelievrs is a form of idol worshipping
K.Venugopal
Immobile Wanderer
I think it can be safely said that any form of action directed with reverence to God is worship. Since prayers are per se reverential, it is no doubt worship. The question is, can worship be directed to anything other than God? We hear of, for instance, Satan worship. Or is the word 'worship', like so many other words, often used metaphorically as is the wont of all language users? In this respect Prophet Mohammad was quoted in a hadidth saying that worship is not merely an external form, its essence is indeed the internal state of mind. Mohammad went on to say that if the approach is right, even legitimate sex is worship and would be rewarded by Allah. This surprised his companions who asked, "How are we going to be rewarded for doing something we enjoy very much?" The Prophet asked them, "Suppose you satisfy your desires illegally, don't you think you will be punished for that?" They replied, "Yes." "So," he said, "by satisfying it legitimately, you are rewarded for it." The hadith concludes, This means, they - legitimate sexual intercourse - are acts of worship.
This indicates that for Mohammad the very act of living legitimately is worship.
Is it the format or the intention of the worshipper that is paramount in worship? Should not the worthiness or sanctity of the worshipped be left to the choice of the worshipper?
This indicates that for Mohammad the very act of living legitimately is worship.
Is it the format or the intention of the worshipper that is paramount in worship? Should not the worthiness or sanctity of the worshipped be left to the choice of the worshipper?
Yep! You are 100% correct as Mohamed is their idol just as Christ is for the Christians.
Jim
K.Venugopal
Immobile Wanderer
Here I think the usage of idol is as in, say, hero. To be fair, what is generally understood as idols in religions is a solid figurine which is worshipped with the believe that the figurine has the ultimate power residing in it. Hindus are of course the world's most famous idol worshippers. But it is also to be noted that no Hindu believes that God is only in the figurine and nowhere else. In fact Hindus believe that God is everywhere just as electricity is everywhere. But in order that we may address that power with our limited senses, such figurines (idols) are consecrated by spiritual masters through special processes, just as electricity is tapped for our day-to-day use through electrical engineering. The original question of this thread was whether Muslims also inter-alia worship idols, though they are not supposed to. The jury is still out on this.
Don Penguinoini
Modi.
WHat about talking to god, like a friend? Does that not count as worship?
K.Venugopal, are you hindu?
K.Venugopal, are you hindu?