Girl Scouts refuse $100,000 check due to transgender stipulation

[Jumi]

Celibacy is an admirable role, if you are blessed with it, good on you. On the other hand, asexuality in the context you seem to hint at it, would be identifying with a sexual orientation outside of what you were, in fact, created with. In other words, you may be misinterpreting a spiritual gift for something it is not. Asexuality does exist in nature, however, not for humans.

I'm heterosexual though not highly interested in sex. Asexual humans are out there as are homosexuals, you probably don't know any personally and don't believe any of the ones that tell you their minds on forums or TV.

No, no. I didn't. But I've seen cross dressing in jest. Perhaps I went to a more obnoxious school than you did, I can't say.

Well, there was violence even against suspected homosexuals. If you were a suspect you needed to man up start faking interest or something, fast. Several homosexuals faked their orientation, one even becoming the top bully. Most macho guy around, had six pack and always sharp fashion sense. Later he was caught with a guy, by a friend of mine. No one told on them though.

There was someone who did crossdress though and he had a girlfriend. They were both beaten up and ostracized completely. You'd think he'd have changed to wear the same clothes as the other guys from being beat up so much if he was just having fun. Of course you can argue that he was a masochist, but he looked pretty miserable. I wish I was a better person when I was a kid and would have been helpful at the time.

In the boxes where everyone acts mature and responsibly, does what they're supposed to do, it's a perfectly decent idea (the gender identity bathroom thing). That isn't the world we live in, though.

Well you can give a good example of maturity and responsibility. Forcing other people to conform to your standards sounds like you don't believe in liberty though. I would rate that way higher than marching lockstep with the crowd to whatever was considered proper locally.

Maybe you'd need kids to understand, but asexual reproduction isn't a realistic option for a human being, so you perhaps will never know.

Well I'm not asexual so having kids is no problem. Asexual reproduction is possible and will be more possible in the future.

 

[JoStories]

Most transsexual women aren't interested in other women. They're more likely to be straight, especially the ones who transition at younger ages. With them, you're not likely to notice that they're even transsexual, anyway. It's the late transitioners who tend to stand out.

As for me, I'm a female to male transsexual. I've been using the men's room for about 6 years with no incident. You wouldn't be able to tell I'm a transsexual at this point, anyway.

Nor could you with my nephew Frank. He was simply born in the wrong body, end of story. And he is attracted to women, making him a straight hetero.

 

[Jumi]

I'm proud of the progress my country (Finland) has made in accepting homosexuality. Being one was illegal a few generations ago. Their attitudes were still alive when I was in school. Now we almost had a homosexual voted for president and gay marriage has been approved, but of course some want to take that down or delay it even though it was majority decision. I think accepting transsexuals will come next. Even our right wing is accepting of gay rights, there are a couple of parties against it though.

 

[catch22]

I'm heterosexual though not highly interested in sex. Asexual humans are out there as are homosexuals, you probably don't know any personally and don't believe any of the ones that tell you their minds on forums or TV.

Well, there was violence even against suspected homosexuals. If you were a suspect you needed to man up start faking interest or something, fast. Several homosexuals faked their orientation, one even becoming the top bully. Most macho guy around, had six pack and always sharp fashion sense. Later he was caught with a guy, by a friend of mine. No one told on them though.

There was someone who did crossdress though and he had a girlfriend. They were both beaten up and ostracized completely. You'd think he'd have changed to wear the same clothes as the other guys from being beat up so much if he was just having fun. Of course you can argue that he was a masochist, but he looked pretty miserable. I wish I was a better person when I was a kid and would have been helpful at the time.

Well you can give a good example of maturity and responsibility. Forcing other people to conform to your standards sounds like you don't believe in liberty though. I would rate that way higher than marching lockstep with the crowd to whatever was considered proper locally.

Well I'm not asexual so having kids is no problem. Asexual reproduction is possible and will be more possible in the future.

Sorry, I think I mistook or misunderstood some of your comments. The way you wrote them led me to think something else. Admittedly, I'm rather tired and out of my wit recently.

Forgive my misunderstanding. I do believe people who say what they say here. It's not that I simply don't believe them. I may disagree with reasons, but alas, it is a debate forum.

Your school was harsher than mine. We had gay males and females, some of which I knew, and I don't think any were "openly" gay. But people knew most of them somehow, regardless. Most people just left them alone or talked about them behind their backs. Some verbal teasing. I can't recall any confrontations or physical attacks, however, I was not a very social person nor did I keep up on the "circles" of this and that. I didn't care about high school drama at the end of the day, I just punched my time card to get through it since it's a short lot in the grand scheme of life. I coded and worked on computers in the labs, like a good nerd. Much less drama and complexity with computers...

 

[Jumi]

Forgive my misunderstanding. I do believe people who say what they say here. It's not that I simply don't believe them. I may disagree with reasons, but alas, it is a debate forum.

I forgive you and I hope you forgive my tone as well.

Back to topic, I don't think there are that many who pretend to be transsexuals enough to worry about them and make people feel bad who really are trying to be who they feel they are.

Verbal teasing is sometimes bad enough and can wreak havoc on young minds. I think physical can sometimes be better. Getting punched you can forget if there was no permanent damage, constant verbal teasing and being left out can lead to therapy when you are older or worse.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Your brain doesn't determine sex?

Your brain does determine your gender identity. The brain, due to the structure of certain areas and the hormones it is exposed to during fetal development, has its own gender.

the chromosomes don't lie.

There are so many variants to XX/XY that your statement is fractally wrong.

I wanted to be a pilot, but I'm not. So I did something else.

Did you failure to become a pilot cause you to feel out of place and belonging nowhere, severe depression, anxiety, great mental anguish, wishing to die and suicidal thoughts, and various self destructive behaviours? Did it have you so down that it left you without any direction in life, drifting through life, and having no desires or motivations to do anything except a hollow and empty life of just going through the motions?

 

[JoStories]

I'm proud of the progress my country (Finland) has made in accepting homosexuality. Being one was illegal a few generations ago. Their attitudes were still alive when I was in school. Now we almost had a homosexual voted for president and gay marriage has been approved, but of course some want to take that down or delay it even though it was majority decision. I think accepting transsexuals will come next. Even our right wing is accepting of gay rights, there are a couple of parties against it though.

I find this attitude of your country refreshing and forward thinking. I wish this one was more like yours. I have a friend from Sweden who still maintains her citizenship there as her children get free education, including college, and free health care. Her children speak at least 2 or more languages. Not like this country where children are unable to even speak proper English. I fear we are far from accepting gays or transexuals. When I traveled to Hawaii the third time, I worked on the Big Island. There was a woman who had transgendered and NONE of the nurses from that island would care for her, because she was once a man. Of course, she was there from having been beaten to a pulp. I cared for her, and I can't tell you how grateful she was for getting someone who truly did care. They also would not take care of this sweet man with Hanson's disease (Leprosy). I will never understand nurses that believe they have the right to refuse to care for these kinds of people.

 

[Jumi]

@JoStories you might be interested in a documentary just posted about:

Georgian(US) pastor visits Nordic countries (documentary) | ReligiousForums.com

One of the issues in that minidocumentary that shocked the US pastor was how accepting priests around here were of homosexuality. In fact there was a priest in Finland, a transwoman who was operated on, though her flock was not accepting of her after she came out so she resigned eventually:

Marja-Sisko Aalto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sweden is probably ahead of us in accepting people as who they are. Sometimes our values are closer to Russia and US than the other Scandinavians.

 

[leibowde84]

You are such a sweet man and a gentleman too. What a catch you must have been love.

You made my day, JoStories ... once again.

 

[JoStories]

You made my day, JoStories ... once again.

Kiss kiss my love.

 

[leibowde84]

Celibacy is an admirable role, if you are blessed with it, good on you. On the other hand, asexuality in the context you seem to hint at it, would be identifying with a sexual orientation outside of what you were, in fact, created with. In other words, you may be misinterpreting a spiritual gift for something it is not. Asexuality does exist in nature, however, not for humans.

No, no. I didn't. But I've seen cross dressing in jest. Perhaps I went to a more obnoxious school than you did, I can't say.

In the boxes where everyone acts mature and responsibly, does what they're supposed to do, it's a perfectly decent idea (the gender identity bathroom thing). That isn't the world we live in, though. Maybe you'd need kids to understand, but asexual reproduction isn't a realistic option for a human being, so you perhaps will never know.

You are incorrrect about asexuality. It certainly does exist in human beings, and is well-known in the psychiatric world.

Asexuality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why would you think that humans could not be asexual? Where did you get this misinformation?

 

[catch22]

You are incorrrect about asexuality. It certainly does exist in human beings, and is well-known in the psychiatric world.

Asexuality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why would you think that humans could not be asexual? Where did you get this misinformation?

Show me a set of normal use parameters for reproducing asexually, in human beings.

 

[catch22]

Your brain does determine your gender identity. The brain, due to the structure of certain areas and the hormones it is exposed to during fetal development, has its own gender.

There are so many variants to XX/XY that your statement is fractally wrong.

Did you failure to become a pilot cause you to feel out of place and belonging nowhere, severe depression, anxiety, great mental anguish, wishing to die and suicidal thoughts, and various self destructive behaviours? Did it have you so down that it left you without any direction in life, drifting through life, and having no desires or motivations to do anything except a hollow and empty life of just going through the motions?

Gender and sex are different.

I made exceptions for biological mutations.

No, my failure to be a pilot specifically didn't. But some other factors in my life had me there. Jesus helps me out of clinical depression. Want to talk about Jesus now?

 

[leibowde84]

Show me a set of normal use parameters for reproducing asexually, in human beings.

Forgive my ignorance, as I am no scientist, but what do you mean exactly? What makes you disbelieve the scientific/psychological concensus? Why would it not effect a specific species of mammals?

 

[catch22]

Forgive my ignorance, as I am no scientist, but what do you mean exactly? What makes you disbelieve the scientific/psychological concensus? Why would it not effect a specific species of mammals?

Don't bother. Humans cannot reproduce asexually. It was a pointed statement phrased as a question.

People can "identify" as asexual, but it doesn't mean anything useful. It's a misnomer, at best.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Your brain doesn't determine sex? You can him and haw with "identity" all day long, but your biology is fixed in this scenario. It's really quite simple. Whether one accepts the truth of their nature may be a question or problem in and of itself (rooted somewhere in psychology I can't presume to tackle), but alas, the chromosomes don't lie.

Now, there are people who are born both, or biologically mutated in such a way that they have a genuine crisis on their hands, considering their both their gender and sex. So I understand the identity crisis involved there and harbor no ill will on a decision to relieve such a situation.

As for the healthy folks who simply don't want to be what they were born to be, what can I say? I wanted to be a pilot, but I'm not. So I did something else. Perhaps I'm just a simpleton on these matters, for those that struggle in it, my apologies. I just don't see it as anything but pride, rebellion, and/or mental illness needing addressing.

Sex differentiation in the womb is a delicate process that happens in stages and can sometimes be botched. The sex development of a transsexual becomes botched in the womb because the brain is flooded with the hormones opposite to their sex. So a female's brain becomes masculinized due to being bathed in high levels of androgen or vice versa. This is what causes a cross-sexed identity and body dysphoria. The brain is expecting the body to be one way and it's the other (brain map). (It can be a similar experience as phantom limb syndrome and many female to male transsexuals have reported experiencing a phantom penis.) That's what causes the experience of distress towards the body. The human brain is sexually dymorphic (meaning that there's biological differences between the male and the female brain) and this influx of hormones in the womb is the reason why. So that explains brain sex and how it can be at odds with the sex of the rest of the body. This also explains why, when those afflicted with transsexualism, feel (at least some) relief of their dysphoria when they begin cross-sex hormone therapy.

For example, I know that I was hit with a male level of androgens in the womb because I have a male digit ratio. My ring fingers are about a knuckle longer than my index fingers.

As for chromosomes, they aren't even responsible for most of the genes that decide the sex of the baby. They're sort of a blueprint and not the end all and be all of a person's sex.

Causes of transsexualism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Digit ratio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Does having a Y chromosome make someone a man? | Intersex Society of North America

So transsexualism is a sex differentiation disorder similar to intersex disorders. It's a medical condition and not a matter of mental health. It's just harder to "see" because the problem is neurological.

 

[leibowde84]

Don't bother. Humans cannot reproduce asexually. It was a pointed statement phrased as a question.

Can you answer my questions? Or are you just stubborn on this issue? I can't think of a reason why human beings would be immune to this condition. Can you provide one?

 

[leibowde84]

Don't bother. Humans cannot reproduce asexually. It was a pointed statement phrased as a question.

People can "identify" as asexual, but it doesn't mean anything useful. It's a misnomer, at best.

There is no need for them to reproduce due to passive genes.

 

[leibowde84]

Don't bother. Humans cannot reproduce asexually. It was a pointed statement phrased as a question.

People can "identify" as asexual, but it doesn't mean anything useful. It's a misnomer, at best.

What is your reasoning for thinking this?

 

[catch22]

Sex differentiation in the womb is a delicate process that happens in stages and can sometimes be botched. The sex development of a transsexual becomes botched in the womb because the brain is flooded with the hormones opposite to their sex. So a female's brain becomes masculinized due to being bathed in high levels of androgen or vice versa. This is what causes a cross-sexed identity and body dysphoria. The brain is expecting the body to be one way and it's the other (brain map). (It can be a similar experience as phantom limb syndrome and many female to male transsexuals have reported experiencing a phantom penis.) That's what causes the experience of distress towards the body. The human brain is sexually dymorphic (meaning that there's biological differences between the male and the female brain) and this influx of hormones in the womb is the reason why. So that explains brain sex and how it can be at odds with the sex of the rest of the body. This also explains why, when those afflicted with transsexualism, feel (at least some) relief of their dysphoria when they begin cross-sex hormone therapy.

For example, I know that I was hit with a male level of androgens in the womb because I have a male digit ratio. My ring fingers are about a knuckle longer than my index fingers.

As for chromosomes, they aren't even responsible for most of the genes that decide the sex of the baby. They're sort of a blueprint and not the end all and be all of a person's sex.

Causes of transsexualism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Digit ratio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Does having a Y chromosome make someone a man? | Intersex Society of North America

So transsexualism is a sex differentiation disorder similar to intersex disorders. It's a medical condition and not a matter of mental health. It's just harder to "see" because the problem is neurological.

This makes sense. I wagered on mental health but it was an (honestly) ignorant guess. I've never studied this in depth. Thanks for clarifying. Always thought Jamie Lee Curtis' case was interesting.