Are there single fathers, who never married, with children in the West?

[Robert.Evans]

Please stop! She is MARRIED so obviously she does not see all men as wife beaters. Who is not paying attention?

You it seems

 

[Robert.Evans]

Of course not. It would be setting a great example. Don't tolerate prejudice against women. She would be smart enough to not get caught. And, I certainly wouldn't want my niece and nephews to think that views like yours are ok.

It would be setting a great example to assault someone?!? I thought you said you were a lawyer. That is wrong churchill and you know it.

 

[Parsimony]

And what jobs are women better than men at?

Some women are better than some men at some jobs (and vice-versa). What is best for an individual situation should be judged based on the characteristics of that particular situation.

 

[Draka]

But what do you mean by less? I don't think they are less if they are not working as a man. You do. So you judge yourself by a man, I think that is a shame. Nor is it in line with scripture.

I judge myself by my abilities and who I am as a person. You do think women shouldn't be working certain jobs at all. As if certain jobs require a penis to do them. That by women working these jobs they are suddenly not "real women" anymore. Perhaps they grew a penis to you, I just don't know. But you do think women incapable of doing certain jobs and that is a fact. If you believe them incapable you think less of them. Also fact.

No she doesn't. Men and women think differently. That is dishonest to say that imo

Both women and men have equal intelligence capabilities. How our thinking processes work may differ, but in many cases that is a good reason to have women and men in the same fields. We may approach problems differently and be able to combine our plans to develop the best outcome. However, women really are just as intelligent as men. And no, that is not me comparing myself to men, that is just to make a point to you that men and women are on equal grounds intellectually.

anything to do with caring has always been a woman's role.

So you have no issue with women brain surgeons or field medics or paramedics? women can work in Doctors Without Borders? Police care. So women can be police too right? Firefighters care so much about people they run into burning buildings to save them. Women must be fine in those careers as well then correct?

I don't, that's just it. It's you who think that imo

Wrong and wrong.

you mean after the man has made the world nicer and easier for you I guess, right?

women have fought for what rights they have. Women were the go-to people when men went off to war. Women kept your factories running, your armories stocked, and worked in the jobs men were not here to do. Women have had to fight for basic rights and no you want to take credit for making the world "easier" for women? Forgive me when I guffaw.
s

o you would work for nothing? rubbish. you wouldn't be a manageress? rubbish.

Why should a woman not be compensated for her work when a man is compensated for his? I take it you feel her time and energy is not worth as much as a man's right? Why do desires and dreams have to boil down to money and power for you when it is women who have those desires and dreams? Is a man working just about money and power? Is that what you think? His dreams, desires, aptitudes, enjoyment...those have nothing to do with anything and don't matter right? Just money and power?

Haha, thankyou for such a lovely insult.

Hey, if the shoe fits.

I am in line with generations before us and in line with scripture. We answer to God. That is fundamental. It shows an ungodly society when we fall from basic things such as the fundamental rights of children to have a loving mother and a father support his family. It works well. It didn't need tampering with.

Apparently it did. Perhaps because too much responsibility was on men? Perhaps women felt they wanted to help their husbands more?

Women have broken up the family, left kids with no fathers, which creates problems with relationships for them and their parents.

Said this before, women don't make men leave. Men can take responsibility for themselves in that arena. Women haven't broken up the family. Perhaps men with antiquated ideas about women have. You can only cage and control someone for so long before they have had enough you know.

It effects market forces for house prices for example, creates less jobs, the list goes on. Women, imo, have an inferiority complex. Some men are happy to back them up as they protect their own interesting and it is easier than arguing

Women have the inferiority complex? I don't think so. Men that seem to fear women's abilities and intelligence seem to have that complex. As I said, bully on the playground.

From a point of view of people and children and the human race in the west certainly, it is a fall from grace. You have lost your spiritual seat for greed- as it is written.

How about you worry about your own religious beliefs and try not to make them the argument everyone else has to live by?

 

[columbus]

the love of a father should be a basic right.....which cannot be given if he is at work. See how stupid your point was? It is illogical because parents need to work. And, most often, one breadwinner isn't enough, monetarily.

No, I don't see his point as stupid.
If all couples who started a family chose one partner to be the breadwinner and one to be the caregiver, and everyone lived within their means, there wouldn't be so many problems.
I'm not a feminist. I'm a gender egalitarian. If a couple decides that the father is better suited to be the full time parent, I'm good with that. I'm also not so much a consumerist, having time with your parents is much more important than having an Xbox or designer clothes.
Tom

 

[leibowde84]

It would be setting a great example to assault someone?!? I thought you said you were a lawyer. That is wrong churchill and you know it.

Like you said before, abuse can be verbal. Expressing views like yours are obviously offensive to women in general, and are aggressive in nature. I think a swift hit to the face would be expected and justified from any woman.

 

[leibowde84]

Some women are better than some men at some jobs (and vice-versa). What is best for an individual situation should be judged based on the characteristics of that particular situation.

Exactly!

 

[leibowde84]

No, I don't see his point as stupid.
If all couples who started a family chose one partner to be the breadwinner and one to be the caregiver, and everyone lived within their means, there wouldn't be so many problems.
I'm not a feminist. I'm a gender egalitarian. If a couple decides that the father is better suited to be the full time parent, I'm good with that. I'm also not so much a consumerist, having time with your parents is much more important than having an Xbox or designer clothes.
Tom

You agreed with my point, which was that being a woman doesn't make a difference. Both parents should be there for their kids. And, if that means one can be at home while the other works, that's great ... but not every couple is that lucky. But, the parent who stays home shouldn't be based on that parent's sex.

And, the Xbox/designer clothes point is absurd and offensive. There are plenty of parents who have to both work long hours just to get food on the table. It's not the 1950s anymore. The job market is tough, and education is pretty much required if you want to make enough to support a large family.

 

[leibowde84]

No, I don't see his point as stupid.
If all couples who started a family chose one partner to be the breadwinner and one to be the caregiver, and everyone lived within their means, there wouldn't be so many problems.
I'm not a feminist. I'm a gender egalitarian. If a couple decides that the father is better suited to be the full time parent, I'm good with that. I'm also not so much a consumerist, having time with your parents is much more important than having an Xbox or designer clothes.
Tom

His point is that WOMEN should stay home and MEN should have a job, not the other way around. That is why I have such a problem with it. It is insulting.

 

[Draka]

No, I don't see his point as stupid.
If all couples who started a family chose one partner to be the breadwinner and one to be the caregiver, and everyone lived within their means, there wouldn't be so many problems.
I'm not a feminist. I'm a gender egalitarian. If a couple decides that the father is better suited to be the full time parent, I'm good with that. I'm also not so much a consumerist, having time with your parents is much more important than having an Xbox or designer clothes.
Tom

But there are lay-offs, hours can be cut, and so on that would necessitate a second income. Not to mention if someone loses their job. And then take into account trying to plan ahead for emergencies. Someone may full well be living fine and within their means...for a while. That bad accident that put a family member in the hospital could take a financial toll. Grandma died and didn't leave enough life insurance to pay for burial so a young couple goes in debt paying for it. There are numerous reasons someone may need two incomes to get by.

 

[paarsurrey]

Draka said: ↑
Apparently he finds it shameful for a woman to be just as good as a man in a male dominated field. Some men seem to feel threatened when a woman can be successful doing what they thought was their thing. I encountered this a lot in my life.

You see, the very fact that your idea is that a woman has to be as good as a man in a man's role says much.
Threatened? Perhaps so. You will become more masculine, therefore more violent, more aggressive, more likely to fight, and more likely to take jobs of men; which in turn will create strife with less jobs, women more tired when they come home, more arguments and fights, and more break up of the family. So threatened? Perhaps so. But don't try to shame my "male pride" if that is what you are thinking, cause it aint gonna happen.
You don't seem to value your own worth until you are doing what men do. And the fact that you found a lot who did not like you being there might have given you reason to pause, if you cared about men that is.

The preference should be to save the family from break-up. I agree with you. The children should not suffer in any case, better to restraint than break up. Sometimes it is inhuman.
Regards

 

[columbus]

His point is that WOMEN should stay home and MEN should have a job, not the other way around. That is why I have such a problem with it. It is insulting.

How about we discuss what I said, instead of changing the subject?
Tom

 

[savagewind]

You it seems

I got nothing but troll

 

[Draka]

I got nothing but troll

Here you go, these are cuter. You suppose he goes and works a "manly" job while she pops out and raises kids at home like a good little woman?

 

[leibowde84]

How about we discuss what I said, instead of changing the subject?
Tom

I didn't change the subject. You said that you agreed with his point, yet you outlined something that contradicts his argument completely.

And, I did address your comment explicitly. As I said, it is unrealistic that a parent has the possibility of being a stay-at-home parent. It's not a perfect world, and most parents have to work in order to support their family. I agree that parents should spend as much time with their children as possible. I never said otherwise. But, sometimes having a parent not work for a living isn't possible.

 

[Draka]

I'm curious, if jobs that have to do with caring are jobs for women does that include medical and education fields? Is it okay for them to work in those fields? If so, are men taking women's jobs when they work in those fields?

 

[leibowde84]

If all couples who started a family chose one partner to be the breadwinner and one to be the caregiver, and everyone lived within their means, there wouldn't be so many problems.

This is just unrealistic. It seems like you are under the false assumption that both parents work just to buy extras in life like XBoxes, TVs, and such. This is just not the case, as many parents who both work do so just to make ends meet.

 

[Robert.Evans]

I judge myself by my abilities and who I am as a person. You do think women shouldn't be working certain jobs at all. As if certain jobs require a penis to do them. That by women working these jobs they are suddenly not "real women" anymore. Perhaps they grew a penis to you, I just don't know. But you do think women incapable of doing certain jobs and that is a fact. If you believe them incapable you think less of them. Also fact.

Both women and men have equal intelligence capabilities. How our thinking processes work may differ, but in many cases that is a good reason to have women and men in the same fields. We may approach problems differently and be able to combine our plans to develop the best outcome. However, women really are just as intelligent as men. And no, that is not me comparing myself to men, that is just to make a point to you that men and women are on equal grounds intellectually.

So you have no issue with women brain surgeons or field medics or paramedics? women can work in Doctors Without Borders? Police care. So women can be police too right? Firefighters care so much about people they run into burning buildings to save them. Women must be fine in those careers as well then correct?

Wrong and wrong.

women have fought for what rights they have. Women were the go-to people when men went off to war. Women kept your factories running, your armories stocked, and worked in the jobs men were not here to do. Women have had to fight for basic rights and no you want to take credit for making the world "easier" for women? Forgive me when I guffaw.
sWhy should a woman not be compensated for her work when a man is compensated for his? I take it you feel her time and energy is not worth as much as a man's right? Why do desires and dreams have to boil down to money and power for you when it is women who have those desires and dreams? Is a man working just about money and power? Is that what you think? His dreams, desires, aptitudes, enjoyment...those have nothing to do with anything and don't matter right? Just money and power?

Hey, if the shoe fits.

Apparently it did. Perhaps because too much responsibility was on men? Perhaps women felt they wanted to help their husbands more?

Said this before, women don't make men leave. Men can take responsibility for themselves in that arena. Women haven't broken up the family. Perhaps men with antiquated ideas about women have. You can only cage and control someone for so long before they have had enough you know.

Women have the inferiority complex? I don't think so. Men that seem to fear women's abilities and intelligence seem to have that complex. As I said, bully on the playground.

How about you worry about your own religious beliefs and try not to make them the argument everyone else has to live by?

Now you look at some of the vulgarity there and yet you tell me you are feminine and that you understand what that means. And, yet again, more misrepresentations of me.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Like you said before, abuse can be verbal. Expressing views like yours are obviously offensive to women in general, and are aggressive in nature. I think a swift hit to the face would be expected and justified from any woman.

You are treading on thin ice. Now I suggest you STOP IT!

 

[columbus]

I didn't change the subject. You said that you agreed with his point, yet you outlined something that contradicts his argument completely.

Yes you did.
You ignored what I said, and replied to him not me.
I often disagree with Robert. You commonly conflate our opinions because we do agree about some things.

I don't seem able to have a discussion with you because you usually ignore what I say and go on about what you think I must have meant.
Tom