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Ya see, I'm not out to make a bunch clones like the Jw's are.
Well actually, "sheep" is probably the more correct terminology. Some people might think that sheep are stupid, but in the Middle East in Bible times, they were a valuable asset. When shepherds would get together at night round their campfires, their flocks would intermingle. Today that would be a nightmare, but back then, the sheep knew their shepherd and when he called then, they all dispersed from the collective flock and followed the voice of their own shepherd. Separating sheep from goats was carried out in a similar way.
Since Jesus is called the "fine shepherd" who knows his sheep and his sheep know him, they do not follow the voice of strangers. If we are not part of the flock, he doesn't know us. If we do not recognise him as our shepherd, we will not follow his voice. So I am a happy sheep, grateful to be part of the flock. The fine shepherd takes good care of us.
I've witnessed "acts of love" - I'm sure we all have. And I don't think we equate them with a being offering up another being (a "perfect" being, no less) to suffer pain and death.You take the ultimate act of love on the part of two of the most powerful beings in existence and put an entirely flawed human spin on their motives.
I have to ask here - who truly took Jesus' life? Was it those mortals present that day? Truly? Or did God send him into that position, in fact knowing full well he would die? This is what it means to make the sacrifice of another - you break the commandment "thou shalt not kill". Just think of the train-track moral dilemma - 5 people are on the tracks and unaware a train is coming, but you can switch the track and have it divert onto another where only one person is sitting, again unaware they could be killed. Do you switch the track and save 5 lives, but decide the fate of that other 1? That is making the decision to kill, and is precisely what God did.God's laws are perfect...so perfect, in fact that he abides by them himself. His stated law was "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, life for a life". This was non negotiable. The law demanded equivalency. Anyone who took a life was to pay with his own.
This is entirely arbitrary and nonsensical. God is supposedly all powerful. He makes the rules - He could break and remake them - it is useless to argue otherwise - it is within His power to do so. He could have raised Jesus, or not have even had him sacrificed and still have forgiven us all - delivered us the same grace. It is all within His power. And because of that, the sacrifice of Jesus wasn't even really a sacrifice at all.A perfect life was lost and only an equivalent perfect life could cancel the debt and rescue Adam's offspring.
I placed in parens the part of the above quote that could be taken out to garner my wholehearted agreement.The insignificance of humankind (compared to those who dwell in the spiritual realm) is unimaginable.
What you call "free will" I call human nature.God did not by-pass his law, nor did he just wipe out the rebels and start again. He had endowed his intelligent creation with free will.
We choose whether to respect and live well alongside our fellow members of humanity - regardless our views on God. That is the pertinent choice we make here on Earth. Not whether or not we answer, or pretend to answer to an invisible being who supposedly loves mankind, but refuses to interact with us.He leaves that choice to you and me.....we need to make sure that our decisions are based on truth and not some twisted view provided by God's enemy.
God doesn't need our approval to carry out his purpose. He doesn't need anything from any of us...the fact is, we need him to keep living. Only a fool bites the hand that feeds him. Only a fool portends to know better than God.
If we have problems with the way God is conducting himself I am sure he is aware of our criticisms. The thing is...he is God and we are not. Humans do not get to dictate to the Creator about how to do the right thing.
He has no Complaints Dept.
Have a nice day.
How can you be sure of anything the Bible God says outside the Bible? All you produce are words from a book that YOU have chosen to be from some God, yet that God never speaks an audible word anywhere outside the Bible.
Your God really are the words written by humans pretending to hear from a God and you bought them.
The Bible you could say is a record of interaction with the Divine over a thousand year period... that's pretty remarkable in and of itself.
The Bible also has inspirational thoughts that influence people to this day.
I hope so. Its not like we haven't had to do it, historically speaking.I was just thinking.
How about you?
So many excuses are made for why Abraham knew God wasn't going to let him go through with it, that God had made other pledges to him that would indicate that somehow it would be made right. Because we know it would be wrong for a father to sacrifice his son.
But think on this - God didn't stay His own hand. He sacrificed His son. It doesn't matter who it was for - it makes Him no father I want to have. If God exists, then He offered my brother to be killed.
God doesn't need our approval to carry out his purpose. He doesn't need anything from any of us...the fact is, we need him to keep living. Only a fool bites the hand that feeds him. Only a fool portends to know better than God.
If we have problems with the way God is conducting himself I am sure he is aware of our criticisms. The thing is...he is God and we are not. Humans do not get to dictate to the Creator about how to do the right thing.
He has no Complaints Dept.
Have a nice day.
back to topic.....
Do you think Abraham's son had a change of mind about 'dear old dad'?
Following a man that had raised a blade against you.....do you keep relation?....beyond arm's reach?
It is a story.
What was the storyteller seeking to convey?
What did the audience hear?
What was the take-away?
No, I said it's a story.So you want to say it's only a story.
I believe so.Did you get the point?
I have and will -- with anyone interested in anything beyond adolescent bible-bashing.Care to say what that might be?
No, I said it's a story.
I believe so.
I have and will -- with anyone interested in anything beyond adolescent bible-bashing.
But don't you see? You're exactly right - He doesn't need our approval - in fact it is utterly asinine to think He needs ANYTHING from us. Completely arrogant to assume we do Him any service with our life on this planet.
And no, I don't care what a book tells you He has told us - I don't. And do you know why? I don't/can't put my trust in secondhand knowledge or experience when it comes to things that make no sense, can't be experienced and have produced no verifiable evidence save for a bunch of human beings (flawed beings) who "witness" something. So some people wrote a book and said it was inspired by God. So? I could write anything I wanted with a sharpie on a couple thousand Post-It notes, or dedicate my life to scratching those things into stone and claim it was all "inspired by God". You'd call me a whack-job, and with good reason.
If He exists, God is all powerful - and that means "ALL". He is capable of lying, deceit, misdirection, malignance, betrayal, because those are all certainly a part of "ALL" - and whatever God does is the "right" thing - even the stuff that isn't so good for humanity, or things we would deem immoral by our standards.
He alone is able to act with impunity. He has no one to answer to. He can employ any ability at His service for or against us - and even though He has such great "love", He doesn't seem to want to interact with us in any but enigmatic and mysterious ways - sometimes for, sometimes against, seemingly random. Last I checked, that kind of behavior wouldn't be interpreted as "love". I certainly do not interpret it as such.
And if my son, who I love greatly, were to say such things about my behavior, you can be damn sure I'd do something to try and correct it. Something as big as I could muster. And as I say that, remember that God has no boundaries.
And even as I say all of that I know as you have said - "God has no complaints department". In fact I know it better than you do - because all of the above is nothing more than my "proof" to myself that He isn't even really there to complain to.