A Question for Atheists

[Thief]

How can you choose to believe something you see as unsupported and unbelievable? One can't force themselves to believe something they think is not trustworthy.

You know an artist by his creation.
What part of the universe do you not trust?
Gravity?

 

[leibowde84]

True, but there is one that has called attention to Judaism before. Sam Harris.

Well, all the atheist arguments I've heard and especially on this site are aimed at Abrahamic religions.

I think that atheists are going to be vocal about the religions that are vocal about their beliefs themselves. When Christians come out against same-sex CIVIL marriage, they are going to get ridiculed by those who find that ridiculous. It shouldn't be unexpected.

 

[leibowde84]

You know an artist by his creation.
What part of the universe do you not trust?
Gravity?

I'm not sure what you mean. How does one "trust" the universe or gravity? I am confident that they exist, if that's what you mean. Not sure how that proves God's existence or Jesus' divinity.

 

[Thief]

I'm not sure what you mean. How does one "trust" the universe or gravity? I am confident that they exist, if that's what you mean. Not sure how that proves God's existence or Jesus' divinity.

I don't lean to dogma.....

 

[Marisa]

I've got one question for you.
Would you be as adamant about doubting and systematically disproving faith if Christianity wasn't the supposed dominant religion in America? Or is Christianity special?

Christianity is the one I'm most familiar with because I'm an American. But if *you* believe in a god, and you want me to believe in that god too, I'm going to need you to prove that god exists and that my life is demonstrably improved by enslaving myself to it. And if *you* want me to believe your god is a benevolent, kind hearted and loving sorta guy and then hand me a book about him which says anything but, I'm gonna call BS on that god.

That said, I don't have a problem with any religion that stays in it's place and doesn't infect my life against my will. So, it needs to stay: out of government, out of the public schools, out of anyone's bedroom and out of our bodies. And I don't particularly care for those religious nutters who strap their holy book to the end of a stick and run around beating people with it.

Preach *your* woo on a public street corner, I'll walk right past you. Use a megaphone and I'll only call the cops if you are impeding traffic or my ability to sleep. But don't ignore the "no soliciting" sign on my front door and knock anyway. If I want to learn about your mythology, I'll open a textbook or come find you.

I don't disbelieve because I'm obtuse or living some sort of "rebel without a cause" movie in my head. I don't disbelieve because I think it makes me cool, or that I'm some sort of hipster. I disbelieve because I've been given no rational reason why belief without evidence is "better". If *you* believe your life is "better" for believing, booya, I'm real happy for ya. I don't think less of *you* for believing and I certainly hope *you* don't think less of me for not believing.

 

[leibowde84]

I don't lean to dogma.....

You don't "lean to dogma"? What do you mean by this?

 

[leibowde84]

I don't lean to dogma.....

So, your beliefs are based on faith, right?

 

[Marisa]

Maybe you aren't but not all atheists are nice to people of faith. What about doubting them?

Does this requirement to be nice go both ways? Because I can pull out polls which show that as an atheist, Revolt and I are generally less trusted than rapists.

I can't remember the last time an atheist knocked on my door and asked if I wanted to be deconverted. I also can't remember the last time a Buddhist knocked on my door and wanted to convert me. Or even a Jewish person. But just one brief hour after the moving semi left from dropping off our household goods, the first Christian knocked on our door. And it was a steady stream all week, almost like they'd been casing the house after the "for sale" sign changed to "sold". They were all very pleasant, but all very blind to that "no soliciting" sign on the front door, almost like they thought they were, what's the word you used? Oh yeah, special. {that's sarcasm, by the way}

Religious people are trying to tell me, as a woman, that I can't have 100% ownership of my body because . . . god. They are still trying to tell gay folk that they can't be who they are because . . . god. In Texas, they are trying to re-write history and science books because . . . god.

So what's that about *nice* again?

 

[Marisa]

True but it's not very open minded.

Why not? In a conversation, a productive one anyway, ideas are exchanged. Being open minded means you hear another idea, even possess enough interest to want to understand it, but there's no insistence that you must adopt said idea. My signature reads: "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" (Aristotle) and that's the very definition of having an open mind. But you seem to be suggesting that non-believers should be open minded to belief, but don't hold the same expectation for believers?

 

[leibowde84]

True but it's not very open minded.

Sure it is. It is "closed-minded" to not welcome challenges to one's own beliefs. Challenging beliefs creates discussion/discourse, and that is the best way to bring about open-mindedness.

 

[Jumi]

You know an artist by his creation.
What part of the universe do you not trust?
Gravity?

So your God is just the universe and nothing more?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I've got one question for you.
Would you be as adamant about doubting and systematically disproving faith if Christianity wasn't the supposed dominant religion in America? Or is Christianity special?

I think you have a lot of unfounded assumptions about atheists.

For starters, it seems like you're assuming that all atheists are Americans.

 

[Marisa]

True, but there is one that has called attention to Judaism before. Sam Harris.

So has David Silverman, president of American Atheists.

Well, all the atheist arguments I've heard and especially on this site are aimed at Abrahamic religions.

Could that be a population thing? Could it be that the Abrahamic religions are the one's most embroiled in conflicts globally?

 

[philbo]

I'm not an atheist, but I don't think this change would make any difference. Every religion should be challenged, not only by atheists, but by its own adherents. One thing that is extremely dangerous is to allow any belief system to go "un-checked".

That being said, Christianity asks for it. Christians are vocal about their prejudice against the homosexual lifestyle, reproductive rights, marriage rights, etc. While they are all welcomed to their beliefs, if you start injecting them into the political spectrum, you are going to get ridiculed in return. That is just how free societies work. And the notion that religious beliefs should get special protection against ridicule is a thing of the past, which is a great thing.

Well said.

 

[philbo]

Does this requirement to be nice go both ways? Because I can pull out polls which show that as an atheist, Revolt and I are generally less trusted than rapists.

..presumably less trusted than Christian rapists?

 

[Marisa]

..presumably less trusted than Christian rapists?

It's interesting, but it does often seem that basic logic is illusive to some folks. Self identified christians constitute well over 70% of this country last I checked despite the ever-increasing "nones", yet for some all the problems we face center around lack of (christian) belief or the wrong (non-christian) belief. Many christians manage to feel persecuted in this country. Nevertheless, with well over 70% of the country self identifying as christian we managed to elect a muslim atheist as president twice and recognize that same sex marriage ain't gonna destroy the planet.

 

[philbo]

It's interesting, but it does often seem that basic logic is illusive to some folks. Self identified christians constitute well over 70% of this country last I checked despite the ever-increasing "nones", yet for some all the problems we face center around lack of (christian) belief or the wrong (non-christian) belief. Many christians manage to feel persecuted in this country. Nevertheless, with well over 70% of the country self identifying as christian we managed to elect a muslim atheist as president twice and recognize that same sex marriage ain't gonna destroy the planet.

There are a lot (well, it might not be that many as a percentage, but they're very vocal) of Christians who see loss of privilege as persecution, on this side of the Atlantic, too.

Surely the people who identify Obama as a "muslim atheist" are the ones who didn't vote for him?

Over here, we did have a councillor who asserted that the recent floods were caused by gay marriage being legally recognized.. on the bright side, he was overwhelmingly laughed out of office.

 

[Marisa]

There are a lot (well, it might not be that many as a percentage, but they're very vocal) of Christians who see loss of privilege as persecution, on this side of the Atlantic, too.

Privilege is a nasty beast.

Surely the people who identify Obama as a "muslim atheist" are the ones who didn't vote for him?

I would imagine so, if they voted at all.

Over here, we did have a councillor who asserted that the recent floods were caused by gay marriage being legally recognized.. on the bright side, he was overwhelmingly laughed out of office.

Ah, a magna cum laude graduate of the Pat Robertson School of Apocolypses?

 

[LuisDantas]

I must disagree.
Belief IS a matter of choice.
The practice and dogma are greatly varied.

I wonder what you mean by that. It can't possibly be the obvious meaning if you hope it to be true.

 

[LuisDantas]

I don't lean to dogma.....

Then surely the Spaghetti Monster told you that gravity is His doing and that there is no God, thereby settling the question, as he does with everyone.