"Human animals"

[Bthoth]

Well....that portends more cycles of oppression, retribution,
vengeance, oppression, retribution, & on & on & on. God's
Chosen People vs The Religion Of Peace vs Christ's Disciples.

It's a religious forum and your comment reminded me of the 3 horns:

Dan 7:8 “While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a human being and a mouth that spoke boastfully.

AS far as I am concerned the 3 religions of abraham all have groups of nasty within.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

We are being inundated with impassioned speech -- some of it performative and much of it understandable. Your sad "without in any way endorsing the horrible rape, murder and kidnapping Hamas has done, [but]" ranks with some of the worst distortion I've seen. To assert that he was "calling the inhabitants of Gaza 'human animals'," instead of characterizing the military wing and leadership of Hamas, is thoroughly despicable.

So it's a distortion when I note that both sides are committing war crimes.

You're babbling. Where did I say such a thing?
Please stop distorting my comments. It's both irritating and stupid.

 

[stevecanuck]

Without in any way endorsing the horrible rape, murder and kidnapping Hamas has done, I was shocked to my very core by the Israeli Defense Minister calling the inhabitants of Gaza "human animals"

To be fair, the Qur'an compares unbelievers to animals a few times (donkeys, dogs, lost cattle, and my 'favorite', the worst of God's beasts).

 

[Augustus]

It's hard but I would not cut off food, water and medical supplies.

Which basically means "I would keep supplying Hamas and maintaining their capacity to kill us".

Can you see it as understandable that others may not want to keep giving Hamas full access to the electricity needed to continue their attacks to their full capacity? Without electricity you get no water.

My guess would also be such a war naturally cuts off most supplies unless you create massive alternative networks of logistics that are very problematic in a war zone from multiple perspectives. They would probably need to involve the cooperation or acquiescence of the local government, Hamas, to some extent, and Hamas fighters would likely be the first to benefit from these supplies.

So from one perspective people can say "war crime! collective punishment!" and from the other people can say "why are we actively using our taxes to support Hamas and maintain their capacity to try to wipe us off the map?"

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

[Onasander]

I never said anything about police. Israel can use their military, I'm ex Infantry.

There is a fundamental difference between treating a place as occupied by the enemy, vs everyone being a enemy. No water access means everyone is the enemy. It's a war crime. Period. Water needs turned on immediately.

 

[sun rise]

Which basically means "I would keep supplying Hamas and maintaining their capacity to kill us".

Can you see it as understandable that others may not want to keep giving Hamas full access to the electricity needed to continue their attacks to their full capacity? Without electricity you get no water.

My guess would also be such a war naturally cuts off most supplies unless you create massive alternative networks of logistics that are very problematic in a war zone from multiple perspectives. They would probably need to involve the cooperation or acquiescence of the local government, Hamas, to some extent, and Hamas fighters would likely be the first to benefit from these supplies.

So from one perspective people can say "war crime! collective punishment!" and from the other people can say "why are we actively using our taxes to support Hamas and maintain their capacity to try to wipe us off the map?"

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

War crimes are war crimes which are crimes. Criminals should be punished no matter what.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's a religious forum and your comment reminded me of the 3 horns:

Dan 7:8 “While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a human being and a mouth that spoke boastfully.

AS far as I am concerned the 3 religions of abraham all have groups of nasty within.

Sounds horny.

 

[Augustus]

War crimes are war crimes which are crimes. Criminals should be punished no matter what.

It's very easy to sit in comfort and feel superior by criticising others with glib platitudes while being an expert in military strategy, logistics and international law.

I guess most people would feel differently about spending their tax money to actively aiding the enemy if it put their loved ones at risk though.

International law doesn't compel you to actively aid the enemy, and whether or not Israel's actions constitute a war crime seems to be very open to debate.

It's also not an international conflict which influences which laws apply, and as Israel's actions clearly reduce the military capabilities of the enemy the question is whether or not they are 'proportionate' which seems a very slippery target, and one that could only be judged in a court of law rather than on an internet forum.

What makes you certain that such actions are war crimes?

 

[Orbit]

It's very easy to sit in comfort and feel superior by criticising others with glib platitudes while being an expert in military strategy, logistics and international law.

I guess most people would feel differently about spending their tax money to actively aiding the enemy if it put their loved ones at risk though.

International law doesn't compel you to actively aid the enemy, and whether or not Israel's actions constitute a war crime seems to be very open to debate.

It's also not an international conflict which influences which laws apply, and as Israel's actions clearly reduce the military capabilities of the enemy the question is whether or not they are 'proportionate' which seems a very slippery target, and one that could only be judged in a court of law rather than on an internet forum.

What makes you certain that such actions are war crimes?

Maybe because of things like this? https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-rele...vidence-war-crimes-committed-all-sides-israel

 

[Augustus]

Maybe because of things like this? https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-rele...vidence-war-crimes-committed-all-sides-israel

That is a media release that talks about concern regarding these things, it is not a definitive legal finding.

It depends whether you see the siege as a legitimate response to a military threat. As far as I can see this is a debated area of law, not something that is clear and unambiguous in favour of either side.

Whether it is a war crime will likely depend on what actions are taken in future, sieges by nature are not prohibited by law.

If you are interested:

Humanizing siege warfare: Applying the principle of proportionality to sieges

Siege warfare and its devastating humanitarian consequences have been one of the defining features of contemporary armed conflicts. While the most apparent restriction of siege warfare appears to be provided by the prohibition against starvation of the civilian population as a method of warfare...

international-review.icrc.org

 

[Heyo]

What makes you certain that such actions are war crimes?

Israel treats all Palestinians as combatants - but then, so does Hamas.

If there was a way to separate civilians from combatants, Israel should follow that path and, in fact, they tried in the past. But when the terrorists hide in the crowd (and the crowd helps them hide) that is no easy task.
Israel could strategically play the divide et impera game, providing certain regions, declared demilitarised, with food and water but what would Hamas do? Hide exactly there and attack from the crowd. And the crowd would help them hide.
So Israel has resorted to war crimes, basically in self defence.

On the other hand, Israel gives Hamas and the Palestinians all reasons to see them as oppressors allowing and supporting illegal settlements and controlling supplies even in times of no open hostilities.

I see no way out of this mess short of a massive occupation by UN Blue Helmets and international help - to which neither party would agree.

 

[Drunk_Uncle_Bob]

Not only is it at current but it has been the whole time the truth that Israel is the aggressor in the situation. I don't say this to write off the suffering of innocent civilians. Civilians should never, in an ideal world, be the victim of terrorism. I say it only as a reminder the only way to move forward requires action from the Israeli government. And genocide is not the the action that will lead to peace.

 

[1137]

Dang, I just finished a paper for my dehumanization class discussing this type of mindset in esoteric Naziism, Islamic fundamentalism, and Christian nationalism.

 

[sun rise]

Israel treats all Palestinians as combatants - but then, so does Hamas.

True. Israel's energy minister said this Live updates: Israel-Hamas war news

Humanitarian aid to Gaza? No electrical switch will be turned on, no water hydrant will be opened and no fuel truck will enter until the Israeli abductees are returned home. Humanitarian for humanitarian.

I'm sure Hamas has plenty of food, water and fuel and would welcome innocents dying to make their case and gen up support. Does Israel think that such words will cause the millions of residents in Gaza to throw Hamas out?

If we see pictures, and I'm sure we will, of dead babies in Gaza, can Hezbollah stay out and lose credibility? What about Iran? If nothing else such bellicose utterances are not helping Israel politically.

 

[Bthoth]

True. Israel's energy minister said this Live updates: Israel-Hamas war news

That's not the arrogant fool on BBC is it?

Humanitarian aid to Gaza? No electrical switch will be turned on, no water hydrant will be opened and no fuel truck will enter until the Israeli abductees are returned home. Humanitarian for humanitarian.

That's completely different than H for H.

I'm sure Hamas has plenty of food, water and fuel and would welcome innocents dying to make their case and gen up support.

So you are basing your approval on assumptions of what you are sure of?

Does Israel think that such words will cause the millions of residents in Gaza to throw Hamas out?

israel does have high hopes that are even similar wishes that I have but it's about like expecting israelis to throw out the settlers and big bibi nutlessyahoo?

If we see pictures, and I'm sure we will, of dead babies in Gaza,

Already seen them on the BBC.

can Hezbollah stay out and lose credibility?

Irrelevant

What about Iran?

The same, not even relevant

not helping Israel politically.

Nor is the nutlessyahoo or giving impunity to settlers or IDF.

 

[sun rise]

Irrelevant

The Nightmare Scenario Staring Israel in the Face​

At a rally in Beirut this week, a senior Hezbollah official sent a message to the Palestinian people: “Our hearts are with you. Our minds are with you. Our souls are with you. Our history and guns and our rockets are with you.”

Israeli Settlers Gun Down Father and Son at Funeral as Violence Spreads to West Bank​

The Palestinian Health Ministry said Thursday that two men were killed by Israeli settlers while attending a funeral for several Palestinians shot a day earlier by Israeli forces and settlers.
...
Israeli authorities are also preparing for a second front possibly opening up against Iran-backed Hezbollah on the northern border. After repeated clashes against Hezbollah militants along the border with Lebanon in recent days, the Israeli military on Thursday reportedly carried out simultaneous air strikes on airports in Damascus and Aleppo, presumably targeting airstrips receiving alleged Iranian weapons shipments to Hezbollah.

 

[Bthoth]

The Nightmare Scenario Staring Israel in the Face​

At a rally in Beirut this week, a senior Hezbollah official sent a message to the Palestinian people: “Our hearts are with you. Our minds are with you. Our souls are with you. Our history and guns and our rockets are with you.”

Chants do not make it so.

Israeli Settlers Gun Down Father and Son at Funeral as Violence Spreads to West Bank​

The Palestinian Health Ministry said Thursday that two men were killed by Israeli settlers while attending a funeral for several Palestinians shot a day earlier by Israeli forces and settlers.

That is evidence of rude behavior. Chants do not qualify.

...
Israeli authorities are also preparing for a second front possibly opening up against Iran-backed Hezbollah on the northern border.

Did you forget to include the other boogyman... Assad?

After repeated clashes against Hezbollah militants along the border with Lebanon in recent days, the Israeli military on Thursday reportedly carried out simultaneous air strikes on airports in Damascus and Aleppo, presumably targeting airstrips receiving alleged Iranian weapons shipments to Hezbollah.

'Alleged' and yet the ignorant dumb f...s fire upon syria. The idea of having impunity is what should be stopped.

 

[sun rise]

It appears from this that the Russians knew ahead of time that Hamas would attack or perhaps Hamas wants to give that impression. If Russia knew then the linkage with Russian brutality and aggression in Ukraine is liked to Russia's purposes.

Senior Hamas official admits Israel attacks had been planned for years under guise of governing Gaza

Hamas planned attacks on Israel for at least two years under the guise of governing Palestinians in Gaza, a senior Hamas official told Russian media.

www.foxnews.com

"In order to keep the attack secret and successful, the different factions and our allies did not know the zero hour," Baraka explained. "But after half an hour, all the Palestinian resistance factions were contacted as were our allies in Hezbollah and Iran. The Turks were also notified, and a meeting was held with them three hours later, at 9 am. We updated anyone who contacted us. Even the Russians sent a message and inquired, and they were updated about the situation and about the goals of the war."

 

[metis]

It's hard but I would not cut off food, water and medical supplies.

I think it's likely the Israel may be using this to get the hostages back by saying they won't be turned on until they're released.

 

[Bthoth]

I think it's likely the Israel may be using this to get the hostages back by saying they won't be turned on until they're released.

They should never have had the right or given the capability to do such a thing, not to mention that ww2 proved that concentration camps must never be allowed. You would think that the parents of the israelis would have taught their children much better.