"Human animals"

[Augustus]

Agreed. But I don't think that's what's happening here. I think someone said an ignorant thing, and that statement is being criticized. Fair game in my book. We currently live in a culture that makes mountains out of mole hills. True. But criticizing this statement (or the attitudes that cause such a statement to be made) is a good thing.

There is a difference between criticising what someone did say, and criticising them based on something they didn't say though.

Whether you agree with the rhetoric or not, it is clearly worse to call all Gazans "humans animals" than it is to call Hamas human animals in the light of the terrorist attacks, their fervent anti-Semitism and stated desire to wipe Israel off the map.

 

[sayak83]

Without in any way endorsing the horrible rape, murder and kidnapping Hamas has done, I was shocked to my very core by the Israeli Defense Minister calling the inhabitants of Gaza "human animals", the same expression the Nazis used for the Jews. https://doi.org/10.1080/21567689.2018.1425144 And the cutting off of everything from Gaza impacting everyone therein reminds me of the Warsaw Ghetto obliteration by the Nazis. The words and deeds by the Israeli government in attempting to starve all the innocent people in Gaza far far exceeds the atrocities Hamas has committed. The entire world should condemn the Israeli government for acting like Nazis.

"I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed,” Gallant says following an assessment at the IDF Southern Command in Beersheba.

“We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly,” he adds.
Defense minister announces ‘complete siege’ of Gaza: No power, food or fuel

West Bank has a border with Egypt. They can send in supplies if they want to. Its unclear why a nation which is at war with the elected government of West Bank would allow supplies through its borders.

 

[Estro Felino]

West Bank has a border with Egypt. They can send in supplies if they want to. Its unclear why a nation which is at war with the elected government of West Bank would allow supplies through its borders.

You mean Gaza Strip.

 

[vulcanlogician]

There is a difference between criticising what someone did say, and criticising them based on something they didn't say though.

Are you claiming that these words were not uttered by an Israeli official? And whether or not they were, is this a good attitude or bad attitude to have?

Whether you agree with the rhetoric or not, it is clearly worse to call all Gazans "humans animals" than it is to call Hamas human animals in the light of the terrorist attacks, their fervent anti-Semitism and stated desire to wipe Israel off the map.

"Human animals" is something you say in order to dehumanize them. Duh. It's an excuse to exercise brutality on them. This concept has nothing to do with defending oneself. It declares one people more important than another. You, of all people, ought to renounce this sort of thing.

 

[sayak83]

You mean Gaza Strip.

Yes. Sorry.

 

[Brickjectivity]

A mere blockade? They are going to let Hamas get away with it AGAIN?! If they are going to keep sparing Gaza then they are going to keep getting stabbed in the back. They stop a previous invasion by Hamas when they smash hundreds of tunnels, and they let Hamas get away with it. I think that was several years ago. Now Hamas shows what is in its plans. Are they going to let Hamas walk again? I don't think it is a good idea. They should take advantage of this blockade to find out how these missiles and weapons are getting in.

 

[Rachel Rugelach]

Hamas, designated by both the U.S. and the E.U. as a terrorist organization that calls for the indiscriminate killing of Jews, has vowed to annihilate Israel. Hamas is responsible for the many suicide bombings on Israeli civilians since its founding in 1987 by Sheikh Ahmed Yassin. Additionally, Hamas continually launches thousands of increasingly powerful rockets from Gaza into Israel. This latest volley of rockets even appeared at times to have overwhelmed Israel's Iron Dome air defense system, due to the sheer number of rockets being fired all at once.

In 2007 Hamas violently seized control of the Gaza Strip from the internationally recognized Palestinian Authority. While recent polls have shown that a majority of Palestinians support Hamas, it is also important to note that there are many Palestinians who do not support Hamas. Just as, in Israel, there is division in political parties.

Not only were there Israeli civilians murdered at the Tribe of Nova peace music festival on Saturday when Hamas terrorists invaded with AK-47 assault rifles, spraying automated gunfire and throwing grenades. Among the hundreds killed or wounded, and those taken hostage by Hamas, were concert-goers from other nations -- Canada, France, the U.K., and Germany to name a few. The music festival was only one of several coordinated attacks by Hamas specifically targeting civilians.

I'm not writing this merely as a defense of Israel's retaliatory actions (which Hamas absolutely knew would happen), so please don't jump on me. I'm writing to simply ask that everyone please keep in mind that we may have members of this forum who have family and friends -- Israelis, Palestinians, and people from other countries -- who are suffering over the death and hostage-taking of their loved ones, and frantic for the safety of those still facing these hostilities. People are going through emotional turmoil. If you pray, then please pray for peace.

 

[Valjean]

Their declared enemy is Hamas, so the "human animals" they are fighting would be Hamas, not "inhabitants of Gaza".

But they're not specifically targeting Hamas or the radical groups fighting under Hamas. That would be problematic, of course, since the non-uniformed fighters are scattered amongst the packed hordes of civilians.

In my opinion, both sides are acting criminally, and have been doing so for a long time. The present intifada is more an escalation than a novelty.
75 years of threatening each other and ****ing each other off, and what do you expect?
The Palestinians should have tried Satyagraha, rather than aggression.

 

[Augustus]

Are you claiming that these words were not uttered by an Israeli official? And whether or not they were, is this a good attitude or bad attitude to have?



"Human animals" is something you say in order to dehumanize them. Duh. It's an excuse to exercise brutality on them. This concept has nothing to do with defending oneself. It declares one people more important than another. You, of all people, ought to renounce this sort of thing.

My interpretation is he said this about Hamas. If I thought he said it about all citizens of Gaza then that would be different. All governments do consider their citizens and soldiers more important than those of their enemies .

In this context, it is certainly understandable to have quite negative views about the people who carry out such attacks, wish to wipe you off the map and explicitly reject any resolution to the conflict other than you being wiped off the map.

In this context, and the reciprocated animosity between Hamas and Israel, I doubt a few words make much difference.

In terms of the military action, I have no idea what a suitable or just response would look like. What is the "correct" response in such a situation given Hamas reject the possibility of peace or compromise?

 

[sun rise]

Their declared enemy is Hamas, so the "human animals" they are fighting would be Hamas, not "inhabitants of Gaza".

Israel cut off food, electricity, medical supplies and water from Gaza. Collective punishment is a war crime.

 

[Valjean]

Israel cut off food, electricity, medical supplies and water from Gaza. Collective punishment is a war crime.

And Hamas fighters intentionally massacred innocent civilians. That's also a war crime.
Both sides behaving execrably.

 

[Augustus]

But they're not specifically targeting Hamas or the radical groups fighting under Hamas. That would be problematic, of course, since the non-uniformed fighters are scattered amongst the packed hordes of civilians.

I genuinely have no idea what is an acceptable military response would be given Hamas is both an elected government and terrorist actor and it is impossible to neatly distinguish between civilian and military.

In my opinion, both sides are acting criminally, and have been doing so for a long time. The present intifada is more an escalation than a novelty.
75 years of threatening each other and pi**ing each other off, and what do you expect?
The Palestinians should have tried Satyagraha, rather than aggression.

Too many outsiders have had a vested interest in preventing peace over the years when some kind of a solution may have been more feasible.

Had it just been about Israelis and Palestinians a solution would have been much more likely imo.

 

[Augustus]

Israel cut off food, electricity, medical supplies and water from Gaza. Collective punishment is a war crime.

What is the correct response?

The electricity will power weapons used to kill your soldiers and civilians. Water won't work without electricity. How do the logistics of massive food supplies work in such a situation?

 

[Heyo]

Some things you just don't do, and Israel is doing it. If Hamas is the declared enemy, they should fight Hamas, not all of Gaza.

How do you propose Israel should do that? Is that even possible without occupying Gaza and installing a police force? How successful would that police force be if no Palestinian would co-operate with them?

 

[RestlessSoul]

Everyone's an armchair general. No one has answers. No one. So easy to sit behind the safety of your screens.

Well there was one man, from that region 2000 years ago, who said the answer to hate was love, always. But not too many people listened to him, then or now.

 

[Heyo]

If you pray, then please pray for peace.

I don't pray, I analyse, I try to understand and and I see what little I can do, even if it is only voting for the right party and maybe sign a petition on WeAct. (I won't.)
My current position is to stay out of and as far away from that conflict as possible. (I even question my decision to participate in this discussion.) We can't help to promote peace when neither side of that conflict wants peace. As frustrating as it is, we have to wait until at least one side has suffered enough to change their mind.
And we should find and name those who keep pumping gasoline on that fire.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Everyone's an armchair general. No one has answers. No one. So easy to sit behind the safety of your screens.

I don't think most people have many options but to sit behind their screens right now, but many of them have personal stakes in the region mainly due to having family, friends, or neighbors living or hailing from there. I can't blame them for watching with concern and heartbreak and trying to express how they feel (with responsibility and consideration of the gravity of the subject) about the horrendous ongoing situation.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Without in any way endorsing the horrible rape, murder and kidnapping Hamas has done, I was shocked to my very core by the Israeli Defense Minister calling the inhabitants of Gaza "human animals", the same expression the Nazis used for the Jews. ...

“We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly,” he adds.
Defense minister announces ‘complete siege’ of Gaza: No power, food or fuel

We are being inundated with impassioned speech -- some of it performative and much of it understandable. Your sad "without in any way endorsing the horrible rape, murder and kidnapping Hamas has done, [but]" ranks with some of the worst distortion I've seen. To assert that he was "calling the inhabitants of Gaza 'human animals'," instead of characterizing the military wing and leadership of Hamas, is thoroughly despicable.

 

[blü 2]

Their declared enemy is Hamas, so the "human animals" they are fighting would be Hamas, not "inhabitants of Gaza".

But as in Ukraine, tell that to the dead,

 

[sun rise]

I genuinely have no idea what is an acceptable military response would be given Hamas is both an elected government and terrorist actor and it is impossible to neatly distinguish between civilian and military.

It's hard but I would not cut off food, water and medical supplies.

Too many outsiders have had a vested interest in preventing peace over the years when some kind of a solution may have been more feasible.

My judgement is that the parties themselves are a big part of the problem.

Well there was one man, from that region 2000 years ago, who said the answer to hate was love, always. But not too many people listened to him, then or now.

And he was not the only one. That message has been ignored for uncounted millennia. For example, the Ball Shem Tov said "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." Why? Because every human being has a root in the Unity, and to reject the minutest particle of the Unity is to reject it all.”

Someday the hatred, anger and fear will end and Jew will say to Muslim Shalom Aleichem and Muslim will respond wa alaikum assalam and visa versa.

We are being inundated with impassioned speech -- some of it performative and much of it understandable. Your sad "without in any way endorsing the horrible rape, murder and kidnapping Hamas has done, [but]" ranks with some of the worst distortion I've seen. To assert that he was "calling the inhabitants of Gaza 'human animals'," instead of characterizing the military wing and leadership of Hamas, is thoroughly despicable.

So it's a distortion when I note that both sides are committing war crimes. And you presume to know who the phrase "human animals" was meant to apply to. I judge by the actions which constitute a war crime. To be sure of my facts I looked it up:
http://books.google.com/books?id=rEHCPOHLTvYC
Yes, cutting off food, water, and medicine to a population is a war crime. It is a violation of the Geneva Conventions, which are a set of international treaties that establish the standards of international humanitarian law.

Article 54 of the Fourth Geneva Convention prohibits the use of starvation as a method of warfare by depriving a civilian population of objects indispensable to its survival, including intentionally impeding relief supplies as provided for under the Geneva Conventions.

Article 75 of Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions prohibits the use of methods or means of warfare of a nature to cause superfluous injury or unnecessary suffering. This includes the denial of objects indispensable to the survival of the civilian population, including wilfully impeding relief supplies.

The Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC) also defines starvation as a war crime. Article 8(2)(b)(xxv) of the Rome Statute states that it is a war crime to intentionally use starvation of civilians as a method of warfare by depriving them of objects indispensable to their survival, including wilfully impeding relief supplies as provided for under the Geneva Conventions.

The ICC has convicted several individuals of the war crime of starvation, including Radovan Karadžić, the former president of Republika Srpska, who was convicted of genocide and other crimes against humanity, including the starvation of the civilian population of Sarajevo during the Siege of Sarajevo.

In addition to the Geneva Conventions and the Rome Statute, there are a number of other international treaties and customary international law norms that prohibit the use of starvation as a method of warfare. These include the Additional Protocols to the Geneva Conventions, the Hague Conventions, and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

The use of starvation as a method of warfare is a serious crime that can have devastating consequences for civilian populations. It is important to hold those responsible for these crimes accountable in order to deter future atrocities.