Is FGM really cultural?

[JoStories]

I hate the Big City. ^_^

By which I mean, I hate getting around in it, because I hate large crowds and rapid unpredictability. I LOVE the stuff that's actually at the end of the journey.

Agreed that getting around the city itself can be a PIA but when I lived there, I either took the BART or simply walked. Its a nice walk around the city. My favorite places were the Presidio, of course the piers and Chinatown. I took my grandchildren to a Cirque de Soliel down by the waterfront. My grandson, three at the time, never moved in 3 hours. Can you imagine? If one has not seen a Cirque de Soliel, and I saw several in Vegas as well, my word they are amazing.

 

[Glaurung]

I saw some documentary about this supposed terrible crime. They filmed a tribe in Africa whose women were circumcized, and they looked positively alike English upper class in the way they behaved. A recognizeable difference from the non circumcized women also shown, oozing sex appeal. They were paid to stop circumcision, while it wasn't actually clear if they wanted to. Another article noted some lower prevalence of AIDS among circumcized women. So it seemed just displaced western feminism, and not feminism of the women themselves.

Do the upper class English practice FMG? Think about this and see if you can notice the disconnect here.

It is popular in islam because the love in marriage, friendship and family is judged meaningful in Islam while being stoned high from sexual pleasure isn't thought to be of much worth in the final judgement. Similarly being stoned high on canabis is also not considered to be a very meanigful feeling.

Does a man's ability to feel sexual pleasure make him less capable of friendship and family life?

And as far as being stoned high on sexual pleasure, didn't think such was possible. Orgasms are an incredibly transient experience.

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

Horse hockey. There is a demand among people because they have been culturally conditioned to believe that female sexual purity is representative of the health of a family. And one of the ways they have been conditioned to believe that is by seeing a sewn up vagina with no clitoral hood and/or clitoral tip is evidence of an honorable woman.

The risks of maternal mortality is greatest among cultures that make it a habit to cut women's reproductive organs up...and that includes the rise in c-sections in our country due to scheduled repeated c-sections here from multiple births from a woman in her lifetime.

I'd prefer to reduce the risks, but that would mean we need to face some really super ugly truths of how women's sexuality and reproductive health and processes may or may not be her own.



You are proving my point. There is pressure across cultures for women to adhere to whatever sexual role they must play for patriarchal sensibilities and their bodies are being compromised directly as a result. Show some skin because men like it. Cut your clitoris off because men like it. Smile when men say hi to you because men like it. Turn around and show off what you're wearing because men like it. Have breast implants put in because men like it. Starve your body of sufficient calorie intake, get thin and slightly emaciated, because men like it. Slice off your inner labia and have your vaginal opening sewn up - and just get through the 30 days you must tie your legs together as you heal and be quarantined as a girl in recovery because men like it.

Whether a female is expected to act like a whore or act like the virgin Mary, it's for the right to stay alive for another day at the decision of the man in charge. And women are complicit in this cultural charade because THEY want to stay alive for another day at the decision of the man in charge.

ETA: This is why I want to smash patriarchy into little itty bitty pieces. Not because of any ego thing. But because women and girls distinctly are being mutiliated and dying en masse from specific and gender-directed violence.

Unlike you, muslims accept free will is real.

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

Such a horrendous prejudice the idea that mutilating a child causing excruciating pain and psychological scarring, while denying them their future right to have a fulfilling sex life might in some way be considered unacceptable behaviour.

Basically, you are saying that if they were uncircumcised, your mother, sisters, daughters would likely be libidinous sluts with no family values, whoring themselves left, right and centre and getting themselves riddled with AIDS were it not for the kindly and well intentioned butchering of their genitals based on the 2000 year old logic of tribal and honour based fiercely patriarchal societies.

"Daddy, why did you let the doctor cut me down there? It hurts so much." "Now, now my little princess, it's for your own good. You are a filthy whore by nature with no morals or self control and it was just a matter of time before you got AIDS and multi-drug resistant gonorrhoea. Now you are clean and pure and can focus your energies on washing clothes, cooking food and satisfying your husband's sexual urges while getting no pleasure yourself. Just the way God intended." "Oh daddy, you are the best, I love you." "Yes princess, you are lucky I care about you much more than those Western Daddies do. Sleep now, I've got to go and protest about people selling condoms in mini-markets and teaching sex education in schools as this increases promiscuity and AIDS also."

Exaggerated nonsense. These women have a broader family life than you. You have no idea about how these decisions are made.

 

[Kirran]

Unlike you, muslims accept free will is real.

Oh Lord. As well as atheists, evolutionists, Nazis and communists, feminists are now also determinists.

 

[Augustus]

Exaggerated nonsense. These women have a broader family life than you. You have no idea about how these decisions are made.

Good that you know so much about me on the basis of a few forum posts.

Am pretty confident these decisions are mostly made on the basis of ignorance and prejudice though, no matter how 'noble' you think you are when choosing to mutilate an infant.

What about the millions of women who resent the fact that someone chopped up their genitals without their permission? Are they simply being ungrateful?

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

Good that you know so much about me on the basis of a few forum posts.

Am pretty confident these decisions are mostly made on the basis of ignorance and prejudice though, no matter how 'noble' you think you are when choosing to mutilate an infant.

What about the millions of women who resent the fact that someone chopped up their genitals without their permission? Are they simply being ungrateful?

You are ignorant of people having free will and emotions. Go back to your science lab.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Unlike you, muslims accept free will is real.

lol

You think I'm a determinist? Hilarious.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It is a cultural thing, but it's also a way of controlling women by focusing on a certain area of her body and normalizing a particular appearance. In many ways, it mirrors just about any elective cosmetic surgery where certain bodies have been normalized to the point others are forced to conform or face social repercussions.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You are ignorant of people having free will and emotions. Go back to your science lab.

How about you go back to where ever and take your misguided views with you?

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

lol

You think I'm a determinist? Hilarious.

Sure you are. One has to actually accept as fact that freedom is real, as part of physics and the rest. It requires some acceptance of creationism as a scientific concept. You only accept freedom as a political idea, and consequently when push comes to shove you ignore these women making choices.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Sure you are. One has to actually accept as fact that freedom is real, as part of physics and the rest. It requires some acceptance of creationism as a scientific concept. You only accept freedom as a political idea, and consequently when push comes to shove you ignore these women making choices.

Oh ad hominem arguments, coupled with junk science like creationism, wherefore art thou?

Here...severe risk of maternal mortality. Mutilated reproductive organs. Compromised health in menstruation and elimination. Tortuous pain during intercourse.

Sure women are suffering through it in their communities. What other choice do they have?

What happens to whores there? Just curious.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Oh ad hominem arguments, coupled with junk science like creationism, wherefore art thou?

It's not worth debating him. He's went on about how no one understands how things are chosen in the universe and we have no subjective reasoning over several threads now.

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

Oh ad hominem arguments, coupled with junk science like creationism, wherefore art thou?

Here...severe risk of maternal mortality. Mutilated reproductive organs. Compromised health in menstruation and elimination. Tortuous pain during intercourse.

Sure women are suffering through it in their communities. What other choice do they have?

What happens to whores there? Just curious.

It is not ad hominem, it is just that because you don't accept the reality that people choose as fact, that what you say about such things has nothing much to do with reality.

 

[Kirran]

If people disagree with MNS, or do things he doesn't like, or doesn't understand, they are determinists who ignore the choices people make.

This is the best definition I've been able to come up with for his views, really.

 

[Augustus]

You are ignorant of people having free will and emotions. Go back to your science lab.

If you are so keen on free will, why butcher the girls when they are 2 rather than waiting until they are old enough to make the choice themselves? And what emotions do children have when those who they think will protect them always, cause them tremendous physical and psychological pain?

And you didn't answer my last question. Are the women who grow up resenting their childhood mutilation just being ungrateful, or do they have a legitimate complaint?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

It is not ad hominem, it is just that because you don't accept the reality that people choose as fact, that what you say about such things has nothing much to do with reality.

The reality is the cutting of female genitalia results in severely increased risk of maternal mortality. There is a causal relationship between hemorrhaging of the pelvic floor during childbirth and this ritualistic practice.

Which means that the more genital cutting, the more women die when they're giving birth.

You were saying about reality?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

If people disagree with MNS, or do things he doesn't like, or doesn't understand, they are determinists who ignore the choices people make.

This is the best definition I've been able to come up with for his views, really.

Meh. It's cheap entertainment.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If people disagree with MNS, or do things he doesn't like, or doesn't understand, they are determinists who ignore the choices people make.

This is the best definition I've been able to come up with for his views, really.

What does MNS stand for?

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

The reality is the cutting of female genitalia results in severely increased risk of maternal mortality. There is a causal relationship between hemorrhaging of the pelvic floor during childbirth and this ritualistic practice.

Which means that the more genital cutting, the more women die when they're giving birth.

You were saying about reality?

Exaggeration, one sided, scientism.

See how evolution theory becomes to be an excuse to take charge of the health of people regardless of what the people want. These evolutionists propose to know as fact what is good and evil. And when it is fact that female circumcision is evil, then there is nothing to choose about it. Any reasoning with an evolutionist about an issue is a waste of time. They have no idea about how decisions are made, and their judgement on what people feel, their spirit, is without emotional depth, because they do not even consider people have emotions because emotions cannot be measured.

I can't say I know the issue very well, but from what I saw there could well be a significant and recognizeable effect on how women behave. The very short view I had on TV of women in the bush behaving in a restrained manner with much individuality showed me that there may be something worthwhile in it. And as in all countries pornography becomes widespread through the internet and advertising, it's no wonder that female circumcision is increasing in popularity among women who like to have a family life.