Zen Beginner

[YmirGF]

In my view, learning Zen without a teacher is like learning to play guitar without an instructor. Good luck.

 

[Mr Cheese]

“There is no path that leads to Zen.

How can you follow a path to where you are right now?”​

–Robert Allen

 

[Mr Cheese]

In my view, learning Zen without a teacher is like learning to play guitar without an instructor. Good luck.

Eric clapton was self taught I believe...

he's pretty awful for a guitar player though....compared to Segovia for example...

 

[YmirGF]

Eric clapton was self taught I believe...

he's pretty awful for a guitar player though....compared to Segovia for example...

Well, it is pretty hard to argue against odds of one in a billion, eh.

 

[Willamena]

Well, it is pretty hard to argue against odds of one in a billion, eh.

Or one in One.

 

[YmirGF]

Or one in One.

Oy vey.

 

[Mr Cheese]

Well, it is pretty hard to argue against odds of one in a billion, eh.

It depends...
some seek a system, a path, a magic formula

but then forget the magic formula's point, or the entire reason for its existence...
is to not have one....

the purpose of a spiritual path, is not to have one.
To be a Buddhist, you must NOT be a Buddhist
...

Arguably, you can learn far more by simply doing and being...
than "learning"

but thats the old shine the mirror and make it nice
versus there is no mirror at all...........


“Where love is little, all acts are imperfect.”
–Mani (turfan fragment M 801)

 

[zenzero]

Friend Cheese,

Would like to add to your response to friend Ymir's response That *what is ZEN?, or does it mean?* and who is the original teacher?

After all we are forms from no-forms and going back to no-forms!

Love & rgds

 

[Mr Cheese]

what IS zen? hmmmm

not sure I am wise enough to answer that.....I admit my limitations (sometimes lol)

what is Zen?
to be who you are....

some would cite zazen as essential...and then Zen itself means "meditation" according to some

but what is meditation? It is essentially being...

If we relegate a special place to meditation, to zen, to a special formula, then we live in a place of zen, and the rest of our lives. Then what for?

we approach the mirror that must be shined... we are the mirror, it must be polished

Or

there is no mirror

I would argue it is the mirror that most begin with, but with insight we understand there is no mirror.

...
Who is the original teacher? historically? I don't know, but I could soon look it up
Who realistically is the original teacher? the universal "voice" inside...

....

 

[nameless]

“There is no path that leads to Zen.

How can you follow a path to where you are right now?”​

–Robert Allen

path is required if you have not realized 'right now', 'stopping' a path is also a path.

 

[Twilight Hue]

In my view, learning Zen without a teacher is like learning to play guitar without an instructor. Good luck.

*Zen is like a finger pointing at the Moon; once you've seen the Moon, there is no longer any need for the finger. Unless you have to scratch yourself or something.

*Gutei raised his finger whenever he was asked a question about Zen. A boy attendant began to imitate him in this way. When anyone asked the boy what his master had preached about, the boy would raise his finger. Gutei heard about the boy's mischief. He seized him and cut off his finger. The boy cried and ran away.

-Broken Koans-

 

[zenzero]

Friend Cheese,

The word *Zen* means *dhyana* which from India travelled to China with Boddhidharma where it got prounced as *chan* and further in Japan as ZEN.
Simply put Zen means *AWARENESS*.
Not that one is there to be aware but simply awareness IS.
Besides when one understands that one is part of this existnce since time immorial in various forms and that existence itself is the *guide* who keeps pointing towards the moon in differnet WAYS and maybe under variuos other GUIDES or *GURUS* in so many previous forms the possibilty exists for one to go the WAY without any Guides as most suggests BUT this is also true that to reach that step could have been a long journey.

Love & rgds

 

[Mr Cheese]

path is required if you have not realized 'right now', 'stopping' a path is also a path.

the problem is the trap of thinking there is more to gain, somethign to learn, a magic formula, a nice shiny sticker.....

there isn't, hence no path.

 

[nameless]

the problem is the trap of thinking there is more to gain, somethign to learn, a magic formula, a nice shiny sticker.....

there isn't, hence no path.

just making clear, path and no-path are not the same, so one who is already in a path should travel to no-path, hence there is a path, different from all other path.

 

[Metempsychosis]

Well, it is pretty hard to argue against odds of one in a billion, eh.

+1.Most of the practitioners need teachers.In some forms of yoga it is more dangerous, men can become insane (mentally degenerated)when it is done without a experienced teacher.

But The ‘teacher’ and the ‘student’ are all Self existing in Self. To the enlightened there is neither bondage nor liberation.

 

[Mr Cheese]

just making clear, path and no-path are not the same, so one who is already in a path should travel to no-path, hence there is a path, different from all other path.

yes, but you're travelling to where you are already...

 

[Metempsychosis]

yes, but you're travelling to where you are already...

Only for the sake of instruction is dualism provisionally accepted; otherwise instruction is impossible.

 

[nameless]

yes, but you're travelling to where you are already...

'The tao that can be uttered is not the eternal tao'. Yes, there is a path, the pathless path.