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Your relationship with Israel

jewscout

Religious Zionist
Shalom Chevray,

So considering Israel is so prominent in the news I was curious. For us as Jews, our tradition holds Eretz Yisrael very central to our religious and cultural identity.

In what way does Israel (the Land and/or the Country) effect your Judaism and Jewish identity? Do you identify on a religious, spiritual, cultural or national level? or a combination of these levels? (sorry i'm having a hard time finding the right words to ask this question) I guess even more simply, what does Israel (again the Land and/or the Country) mean to you as a Jew?
 
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Levite

Higher and Higher
Shalom Chevray,

So considering Israel is so prominent in the news I was curious. For us as Jews, our tradition holds Eretz Yisrael very central to our religious and cultural identity.

In what way does Israel (the Land and/or the Country) effect your Judaism and Jewish identity? Do you identify on a religious, spiritual, cultural or national level? or a combination of these levels? (sorry i'm having a hard time finding the right words to ask this question) I guess even more simply, what does Israel (again the Land and/or the Country) mean to you as a Jew?

Well, I consider myself something of a religious Zionist, so Israel is important to me. But beyond Zionism, certainly I think Eretz Yisrael is deeply central: most of our core tefillot have elements involving the land that God gave to our Avot, and His bringing us up from Egypt to give us that land, and/or our loss of that land and plea to be returned to it. Our poetry is filled with imagery of the Land of Israel and longing for it. And the Ingathering of Exile is core to Jewish messianism, which in turn has affected nearly every facet of Jewish tradition. So it seems hard to me to imagine the Land of Israel not being critically important to Judaism. It's our homeland, the place of our roots, the land that shaped who we are. It's our Holy Land.

And in terms of the State of Israel, I can say, having lived in Israel for a while, that
there really is noplace else like it. Even considering that most of the populace are officially "chiloni" (though in practice, only a minority of them are truly secular in the early Zionist/pioneer model), there is still something deeply powerful about being in a Jewishly constructed and framed culture, where Jews predominate. The place has a lot of problems, and many of those problems have to do with how Jews treat one another, to say nothing of how we treat non-Jews under our jurisdiction-- all of which is troubling.

But it's special. It's worth fighting to make it a better place (again to say nothing of the more literal fighting, to make it a safer place).

I make no bones about being a Jew content to live in galut (exile). I have no burning desire to make aliyah, though I would not be opposed to living there under the proper circumstances. But I do believe that the Jewish People also benefit from having a strong community in exile, just as we benefitted during the time of the Talmud. Nonetheless, Israel is our home, and should be treated as such, and the effort to maintain a Jewish State in the Jewish Land should not be diminished. And I conduct myself accordingly. I critique aspects of Israeli society, I push for political and social reform there, and I do not claim any immaculate status for the Israeli society, government, or military. But I do support Israel, and I will always go to bat for the rightful existence of a Jewish State in the Land of Israel, and the centrality of the Land of Israel as the eternal homeland of the Jewish People.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Shalom Chevray,

So considering Israel is so prominent in the news I was curious. For us as Jews, our tradition holds Eretz Yisrael very central to our religious and cultural identity.

In what way does Israel (the Land and/or the Country) effect your Judaism and Jewish identity?
It is an enormous burden.
 

Akivah

Well-Known Member
what does Israel (again the Land and/or the Country) mean to you as a Jew?

Israel is my refuge. If ever, the US becomes like France (unsafe to be Jewish), it will be a place that I know I can move to and safely be Jewish there.
Israel is my future home. When the Messianic times commence, I will make aliyah and live there.
Israel is my background. I can point to it and say that at one time, my ancestors were there.
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Sorry to intervene here, but i can't help but to say hi to our old pal Jewscout. Such great memories. :p

In a serious note, why there are some Jewish movements that oppose the creation of Israel all together or at least doesn't see Israel as central to their faith?
 

jewscout

Religious Zionist
Sorry to intervene here, but i can't help but to say hi to our old pal Jewscout. Such great memories. :p

In a serious note, why there are some Jewish movements that oppose the creation of Israel all together or at least doesn't see Israel as central to their faith?

well there are a few Hasidic movement that view the creation of a Jewish state in Israel without the Messiah as going against traditional interpretations of redemption, but these groups represent a serious minority and their arguments can be, and have been, refuted.

as far as not being central to our faith, maybe not the state, but I find it hard to believe a religiously observant jew not seeing the Land of Israel as central to Judaism
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I've loved my stays in Israel and could easily live there. OTOH, I tend not to be very patriotic, nor is my brand of Judaism even close to being orthodox. Therefore, the emotional side of me has a strong attachment, but the cognitive side of me is nowhere nearly as strong in that same direction.
 

jewscout

Religious Zionist
thanks everyone for your contributions, I am really interested in what other Jews think of Israel in the context of their personal, spiritual and religious identity.
 

LAGoff

Member
How about the Land as being the land/space/room we make in our hearts for and with our 'brothers'/half-brothers (God's children).
And that it is idolatry to see the Land as just an actual land and not also a place in the heart.
 

jewscout

Religious Zionist
How about the Land as being the land/space/room we make in our hearts for and with our 'brothers'/half-brothers (God's children).
And that it is idolatry to see the Land as just an actual land and not also a place in the heart.

I disagree. The Torah talks about "The Land" as a physical land that we live in and can be expelled from for not obeying mitzvot.
 

Levite

Higher and Higher
How about the Land as being the land/space/room we make in our hearts for and with our 'brothers'/half-brothers (God's children).
And that it is idolatry to see the Land as just an actual land and not also a place in the heart.

I don't think there's anything wrong with making a mystical midrash that the Land is a spiritual heart/headspace that promotes connection with and valuation of others. In fact, I think that's a very good midrash to make.

But I think that to demand that such an interpretation be of equivalent viability with the established meaning of the Land as mamash the Land, on pain of idolatry, is too much. Far too much.
 

LAGoff

Member
I don't think there's anything wrong with making a mystical midrash that the Land is a spiritual heart/headspace that promotes connection with and valuation of others. In fact, I think that's a very good midrash to make.

But I think that to demand that such an interpretation be of equivalent viability with the established meaning of the Land as mamash the Land, on pain of idolatry, is too much. Far too much.

The 'idolaters' I was thinking of were [some of] the Israelites/Judahites of old that thought that God would never destroy Jerusalem/the Temple (see Jer.7), and also some of the Jews today who under the cover of "This is God's Land, and He gave it to us" feel they can treat "the other" (I'm thinking specifically of the West Bank Arabs) very badly, and it's ok because "This is..."

I think, ala Jer.7, that Jews are heading down that road again and that the "midrash" I gave above (actually it came from a person on another forum) is the only way I can see
to stop the physical and spiritual degradation that [especially] some settlers are inflicting on themselves and others. To be more specific, I see it as the only way for ME to stop (or at least slow down) the physical and spiritual triumphalism I see in myself from getting out of hand to the point where I would physically and spiritually degrade myself and those West Bank others and anyone else who gets in the way of the "It's Hashem's Land and He gave to us" mentality.

There are conditions to being in Hashem's Land, and I am just afraid that the conduct exhibited by Jews may cause us to be spit out again.
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
well there are a few Hasidic movement that view the creation of a Jewish state in Israel without the Messiah as going against traditional interpretations of redemption, but these groups represent a serious minority and their arguments can be, and have been, refuted.

as far as not being central to our faith, maybe not the state, but I find it hard to believe a religiously observant jew not seeing the Land of Israel as central to Judaism

Thank you. :)
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
There are conditions to being in Hashem's Land, and I am just afraid that the conduct exhibited by Jews may cause us to be spit out again.

I consider the equation { Israel = Hashem's Land } to be tribal superstition. If God, this is Hashem's Land …

Expansion-of-the-universe-625x409.png
 

Akivah

Well-Known Member
I've loved my stays in Israel and could easily live there. OTOH, I tend not to be very patriotic, nor is my brand of Judaism even close to being orthodox. Therefore, the emotional side of me has a strong attachment, but the cognitive side of me is nowhere nearly as strong in that same direction.

I agree completely metis. When I visited Israel, I become filled with a spiritual peace. It is so easy to be Jewish there. But OTOH, the political apparatus would probably dissolve my marriage and brand my adopted child as being a goy since the officiating rabbis weren't Orthodox.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I agree completely metis. When I visited Israel, I become filled with a spiritual peace. It is so easy to be Jewish there. But OTOH, the political apparatus would probably dissolve my marriage and brand my adopted child as being a goy since the officiating rabbis weren't Orthodox.

I hear ya.

Shabbat shalom
 

Tali018

Member
thanks everyone for your contributions, I am really interested in what other Jews think of Israel in the context of their personal, spiritual and religious identity.

As a visitor to Israel twice a year the following fits your criteria for as a country I've done this multiple time: I've had multiple times were a bunch of cars simply pulled off the road to have a Minyan or a bus just stops and has a Minyan; all three come come into play. When we have the moment of silence on Yom HaShoah and everyone and everything comes to a standstill all three come into play. When on Yom Kippur when one goes outside there is not a sound for miles in any direction all three come into play. It doesn't matter if one believes on the State of Israel or the Land of Israel, it is the only place we can freely be Jewish no matter one's level of observance.
 
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