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Your opinion on the EU?
- Thread starter Aquitaine
- Start date
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
I believe the EU is moving towards super-statehood. We have the currency and we've just got a president and a foreign minister. I think an EU army is on the way.
Authority and decision making is becoming ever more remote from the citizenry and I am against it.
Economic an political co-operation between sovereign states was fine (even allowing that it had downsides). We've moved a long way beyond that and I am against thne direction we're taking.
Authority and decision making is becoming ever more remote from the citizenry and I am against it.
Economic an political co-operation between sovereign states was fine (even allowing that it had downsides). We've moved a long way beyond that and I am against thne direction we're taking.
Aquitaine
Well-Known Member
Oh yes, I heard about those two getting the jobs, yes, those two that we all voted for........... just like the Lisbon Treaty.
kai
ragamuffin
I could not have expressed my view better.
Just_me_Mike
Well-Known Member
Whenever I here the letters EU I instantly think of PU :yes:
The EU can be traced back to Winston Churchill who proposed a similar idea as a deterrent to another "avoidable war" (Churchill's name for the Second World War). Ironically it was France and Germany who took the lead and built on the the concept, the UK entered largely so that it could have a say and vito what it did not like. Spain and other countires followed for logical reasons, such as trade and economic advantages, and we are still witnessing that expansion.
As to how the EU can accomodate the economic demands of younger, less developed countries strikes me as quite interesting. I would like to know how the bigger nations support the younger ones financially every year. Does anyone know or have a high overview URL to hand?
Personally I am affected by EU legsilation and labour laws, being born in the EU but now working in another EU state. This move required me to re-think a lot of my earlier values and attitudes on both national and EU politics, race and even religion.
The comfort and change of mentallity since 1950 Europe is having an affect on modern thinking and public attitude of the EU. I raise this point as I am not so sure I appreciated the peace that the EU may have brought. It would be rash to ask, how many europeans would now pick up a weapon and fight for land, but this is quite honestly a thought we now have the comfort to ignore.
As to how the EU can accomodate the economic demands of younger, less developed countries strikes me as quite interesting. I would like to know how the bigger nations support the younger ones financially every year. Does anyone know or have a high overview URL to hand?
Personally I am affected by EU legsilation and labour laws, being born in the EU but now working in another EU state. This move required me to re-think a lot of my earlier values and attitudes on both national and EU politics, race and even religion.
The comfort and change of mentallity since 1950 Europe is having an affect on modern thinking and public attitude of the EU. I raise this point as I am not so sure I appreciated the peace that the EU may have brought. It would be rash to ask, how many europeans would now pick up a weapon and fight for land, but this is quite honestly a thought we now have the comfort to ignore.
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Mikael
...
To fight for LAND is really the old ways. Noone would do it. Each country has enough trouble with the land they already have.
As a Swede, I would have much more preferred a scandinavian union (there actually is one since way back, but it could have been developed further). I have no feeling for the EU. I mean, face it, there are no specific "european" mentality. Or culture, for that matter. Most people I´ve talked to from countries that switched to the euro-currency say that prices went UP and never came down, while salarys didn´t. And I was supposed to be able to travel without a passport. But instead I have to be ready to show proper identification wherever I go. Sure, the other EU-country work-thing is great, but still I have to bother with the Danish tax-system if I work in Denmark. It still costs alot more to call a friend on the phone if he is abroad. So the borders are still there, though the european wars are long gone. (well, the balkan-wars are not so long gone...)
As a Swede, I would have much more preferred a scandinavian union (there actually is one since way back, but it could have been developed further). I have no feeling for the EU. I mean, face it, there are no specific "european" mentality. Or culture, for that matter. Most people I´ve talked to from countries that switched to the euro-currency say that prices went UP and never came down, while salarys didn´t. And I was supposed to be able to travel without a passport. But instead I have to be ready to show proper identification wherever I go. Sure, the other EU-country work-thing is great, but still I have to bother with the Danish tax-system if I work in Denmark. It still costs alot more to call a friend on the phone if he is abroad. So the borders are still there, though the european wars are long gone. (well, the balkan-wars are not so long gone...)
Troublemane
Well-Known Member
Its an interesting thing, I am not sure if its going to be successful or not. The Euro is currently trading higher than the dollar, which is good for investors, good for American industry, etc. Means europeans will keep investing in american real estate, coming here on vacation.
Theres a slight problem I see on the horizon, and thats regarding legal issues. Are the member states going to have to eventually surrender their sovereignty completely? What if one of the smaller nations passes a law and another nation doesnt like it? Can they take them to court and make them change it? Is there a Federal Government presiding over the EU akin to the Federal Gov't here in the US? How powerful is it? Can the member nations secede at any time? What if the richer countries try to secede from the poorer ones?
And what about countries which take pride in their own culture and history? Is France going to have to put english, german and spanish on their roadsigns? Or will there be a vote to determine the 'official' language of the EU?
And how bout driving on the left side or the right? Should there be a committee established to force everyone to adopt the same rules of the road?
It will be interesting to see how this goes. The people of europe have been united under emperors briefly in the past. It always fell apart fairly rapidly. Just wondering how this attempt will go.
Theres a slight problem I see on the horizon, and thats regarding legal issues. Are the member states going to have to eventually surrender their sovereignty completely? What if one of the smaller nations passes a law and another nation doesnt like it? Can they take them to court and make them change it? Is there a Federal Government presiding over the EU akin to the Federal Gov't here in the US? How powerful is it? Can the member nations secede at any time? What if the richer countries try to secede from the poorer ones?
And what about countries which take pride in their own culture and history? Is France going to have to put english, german and spanish on their roadsigns? Or will there be a vote to determine the 'official' language of the EU?
And how bout driving on the left side or the right? Should there be a committee established to force everyone to adopt the same rules of the road?
It will be interesting to see how this goes. The people of europe have been united under emperors briefly in the past. It always fell apart fairly rapidly. Just wondering how this attempt will go.
Mikael
...
The currency... Only some people like it. All the countries that were able to vote for it (sweden, denmark and britain) said NO. I don´t regret that.
The legal issue is at the moment that the EU-court is sovereign to the national. There is exeptions, though, for most countries.
Culture? France, in particular, will NEVER put english anywhere
There is only one left-side driving country in europe, great britain, and they will probably not change that. It´s not too important...
An example of an economical problem is the recent suggestion of equal prices on electricity. A really stupid thing considerring the differences in climate between the mediterrainian and the scandinavian countries.
Maybe in a hundred years the EU will be a great ONE. Now it is definatelty not.
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
no european country has any real influence in the world on its own.
The EU As a whole has a trading power that will soon overtake the usa and Russia.
Even corporations as large as microsoft have had to bow to its court directives. Something that American courts have never achieved.
The EU As a whole has a trading power that will soon overtake the usa and Russia.
Even corporations as large as microsoft have had to bow to its court directives. Something that American courts have never achieved.
Mikael
...
I never felt that my country has to have influence over the world... Although at times Sweden has had just that as a diplomatic force. Switzerland, not an EU-country but still, has serious economical influence. Norway (not a member either) has it´s own oil wich makes them quite influencal. Britain and France owns stuff all over the globe.
So several european countries DO have influence. But of course, the EU is here to stay, no question about it. No matter how I feel about it.
So several european countries DO have influence. But of course, the EU is here to stay, no question about it. No matter how I feel about it.
Xafwak
XFWK
I support EU. It gives unity to the western world, makes all countries´ economies significantly stronger (it is estimated that on average the European GDP is several percents higher than it would be without EU), gives security to smaller countries not in NATO (I can think of Finland and Sweden) and while power has been centralized, most of the important decisions are still left to individual countries. Any country could leave EU, but the benefits far outweight the problems.
I believe the European Union is in danger
of going out of existence. It is based on a
fallacy that declares that national identity
does not matter.
For example: England is being swamped by
Eastern European immigrants. And this is
perfectly legal under EU law. In not many
years England will not be England.
The EU is political correctness gone amuck!
of going out of existence. It is based on a
fallacy that declares that national identity
does not matter.
For example: England is being swamped by
Eastern European immigrants. And this is
perfectly legal under EU law. In not many
years England will not be England.
The EU is political correctness gone amuck!
I am all for the European states acting cooperatively together
and creating institutions to further their common interests.
But not to the extent they do not have their own currencies or
be able to control their own borders, etc..
When it comes to governments bigger is not better.
and creating institutions to further their common interests.
But not to the extent they do not have their own currencies or
be able to control their own borders, etc..
When it comes to governments bigger is not better.