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Your insight? Body or mind

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
I wanted your insight on this. I was working with my therapist, and in mental health they say when you have a trigger or something, your mind reacts first (I'm in danger), then your body reacts (tense up), then behavior (fight or run). If you change your thoughts, you calm your physiological reaction and in turn affects your behavior.

When I personally think of it, I think the physiological reaction comes first (someone threatens you, you get tense), then your mind (I'm in danger), and then your behavior (protect myself or run).

In mental health, why does the first scenario make sense and not the second?

Don't we react first before we interpret why we react whether its fact or cognitive distortion?
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
I wanted your insight on this. I was working with my therapist, and in mental health they say when you have a trigger or something, your mind reacts first (I'm in danger), then your body reacts (tense up), then behavior (fight or run). If you change your thoughts, you calm your physiological reaction and in turn affects your behavior.

When I personally think of it, I think the physiological reaction comes first (someone threatens you, you get tense), then your mind (I'm in danger), and then your behavior (protect myself or run).

In mental health, why does the first scenario make sense and not the second?

Don't we react first before we interpret why we react whether its fact or cognitive distortion?
It depends. While the usual cascade is thought to be as described, there are physiological reactions and sometimes even behaviour that are faster than the conscious mind. (Though we speak of reflexes, not reactions in that case. A reaction is by definition conscious.)
A typical reflex is blinking. When something approaches your eye fast, you blink. No need and no time for a conscious decision. Some typical triggers for phobias are also faster than the mind, snakes for example. The physiological reflex (tensing up) is triggered by the amygdala before the signal is even processed by the conscious mind.
But reflexes can be learned and even un-learned, though that takes time and many repetitions.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
The brain is the first to react, though one may not be aware of this reaction. Without the brain first reacting to danger, there would be no signal sent to the muscles to tense up.
 

Jeremiah Ames

Well-Known Member
I wanted your insight on this. I was working with my therapist, and in mental health they say when you have a trigger or something, your mind reacts first (I'm in danger), then your body reacts (tense up), then behavior (fight or run). If you change your thoughts, you calm your physiological reaction and in turn affects your behavior.

When I personally think of it, I think the physiological reaction comes first (someone threatens you, you get tense), then your mind (I'm in danger), and then your behavior (protect myself or run).

In mental health, why does the first scenario make sense and not the second?

Don't we react first before we interpret why we react whether its fact or cognitive distortion?

i do, but then the outcome is usually very bad

i must work on following the first method
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
The brain is the first to react, though one may not be aware of this reaction. Without the brain first reacting to danger, there would be no signal sent to the muscles to tense up.

True.

In this case, it's the brain/body (tensing), mind (thoughts: I'm in danger; I'm stupid), and behavior (run/shut down).

I would think the brain/body acts first and then the mind. In mental health, they say the reason why our brain/body reacts is the result of our thoughts and cognitive distortions.

For me personally, if someone triggered me, I'd have a physiological reaction. Then interpreting that reaction could be beneficial or consequential. Therapy ideally helps make the thoughts beneficial--however, I wonder why they would say the thoughts would come first if the (from what I understand it), the brain receptors have no language-they respond by instinct; which is faster than our thoughts.
 

Jeremiah Ames

Well-Known Member
The brain is the first to react, though one may not be aware of this reaction. Without the brain first reacting to danger, there would be no signal sent to the muscles to tense up.

that makes sense

i just wish my brain would convince my body not to be a bit calmer
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
True.

In this case, it's the brain/body (tensing), mind (thoughts: I'm in danger; I'm stupid), and behavior (run/shut down).

I would think the brain/body acts first and then the mind. In mental health, they say the reason why our brain/body reacts is the result of our thoughts and cognitive distortions.

For me personally, if someone triggered me, I'd have a physiological reaction. Then interpreting that reaction could be beneficial or consequential. Therapy ideally helps make the thoughts beneficial--however, I wonder why they would say the thoughts would come first if the (from what I understand it), the brain receptors have no language-they respond by instinct; which is faster than our thoughts.

You may be confusing yourself with terminology, or rather, how your defining said terms.

Why are you drawing a dichotomy between mind and brain/body? The mind is inherent to the brain, and this conglomeration controls the body. I would think it's more accurate to link the mind/brain and then the body.
 

Daemon Sophic

Avatar in flux
The brain is the first to react, though one may not be aware of this reaction. Without the brain first reacting to danger, there would be no signal sent to the muscles to tense up.
^^ This.
The door to the room that you were sitting in gets nudged open, and as you look over you see a black bear pushing its way in. Your brain had to see the bear, and recognize it for what it is, and also realize that it is more powerful and dangerous than you are (as opposed to seeing a 2-year old human child toddling in with a look of curiosity on his face). Then the brain sends a signal to your adrenaline glands that this is a severe situation. Finally your adrenaline glands pump out at the epinephrine which gets your body ready for fight or flight.

However, someone well trained in bears and bear behavior might intercept the message to the adrenals by telling oneself to remain calm and attempt a dominating behavior, while slowly backing out of the room through a different exit, rather than screaming and running away which would simply make you a target for the bear.

The brain, and it’s interpretation of the situation always comes first.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
You may be confusing yourself with terminology, or rather, how your defining said terms.

Why are you drawing a dichotomy between mind and brain/body? The mind is inherent to the brain, and this conglomeration controls the body. I would think it's more accurate to link the mind/brain and then the body.

Because the brain is the neurons and our mind interprets the signals of emotions and things of that nature that comes from the brain. So, if one has a physiological reaction, that's a result from the brains response. When the mind interprets those signals, depending on the person, they may interpret that as being in danger. When the mind/thoughts thinks its in danger, behavior will follow.

The mental health view of it is that our brains (the neurons that also control our emotions and the body) is secondary to our thoughts. I'm saying it seems like the other way around. Our brains (physiology responses through the body) react first and 'then' our minds interpret it either danger or not.

I'm speaking the order in which we experience external stimuli or triggers-brain/physiological reaction, then thoughts-cognitive distortions, then behavior-as a result of those distortions.

Mental health (in the US) has it the other way around. I don't understand how.'
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
It depends. While the usual cascade is thought to be as described, there are physiological reactions and sometimes even behaviour that are faster than the conscious mind. (Though we speak of reflexes, not reactions in that case. A reaction is by definition conscious.)
A typical reflex is blinking. When something approaches your eye fast, you blink. No need and no time for a conscious decision. Some typical triggers for phobias are also faster than the mind, snakes for example. The physiological reflex (tensing up) is triggered by the amygdala before the signal is even processed by the conscious mind.
But reflexes can be learned and even un-learned, though that takes time and many repetitions.

That's a different spend. Maybe I meant reflexes (reflex reaction) instead of reactions (conscious reactions). Physiological reflex before our minds and behavior catch up (or maybe our reflex, then behavior, then mind).

So, like the snake example, you see a snake, you have physiological response-being scared. The reflex-jump back. Then the mind interprets that you're in danger.

Therapist say that you think you're in danger first before your conscious reactions. But I don't think we are aware of our reactions until it's too late given our instinct.

If that at all made sense.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Because the brain is the neurons and our mind interprets the signals of emotions and things of that nature that comes from the brain. So, if one has a physiological reaction, that's a result from the brains response. When the mind interprets those signals, depending on the person, they may interpret that as being in danger. When the mind/thoughts thinks its in danger, behavior will follow.

The mental health view of it is that our brains (the neurons that also control our emotions and the body) is secondary to our thoughts. I'm saying it seems like the other way around. Our brains (physiology responses through the body) react first and 'then' our minds interpret it either danger or not.

I'm speaking the order in which we experience external stimuli or triggers-brain/physiological reaction, then thoughts-cognitive distortions, then behavior-as a result of those distortions.

Mental health (in the US) has it the other way around. I don't understand how.'

If the brain is composed of neurons, what is the mind composed of?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
If the brain is composed of neurons, what is the mind composed of?

In this case, I'm thinking mind where are thoughts come from rather than mind as related to the brain. Another way to put it is mental health says that our thoughts come first, then our physiological reactions, and then our behavior. I'm saying the physiological reactions come first, then our thoughts, then our behavior.

Why does mental health say physiology is secondary to our thoughts?

The idea is if we change our thought distortions, we will be calmer, and have better behaviors. I'm saying that's pretty hard to do with your physiological responses act on instinct before your thoughts (mind) catches up.
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
I always thought that the conscious mind was the last to respond. That whatever goes to your unconscious processes is was first to respond.

1) unconscious mind
2) brain
3) conscious mind and thus behaviour.

We try to train ourselves to prepare for how we respond.

I'd like to know this better actually.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
I always thought that the conscious mind was the last to respond. That whatever goes to your unconscious processes is was first to respond.

1) unconscious mind
2) brain
3) conscious mind and thus behaviour.

We try to train ourselves to prepare for how we respond.

I'd like to know this better actually.

That's what I would have thought. I posed it similar to my former therapist, and she was more if we changed what we are thinking then we will eventually change our unconscious responses and thus our behavior.

I don't know exactly what field of study it is, but it's related to cognitive therapy and changing thought distortions to help ease responses to stress and beneficial behaviors.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
What are the triggers when we are in danger. The senses. If it is a very dangerous situation like a stone being thrown in your direction; the reflex action takes place immediately. It is programed for such situation by experience, duck, cover your head with your hand*. In not so an urgent situation, the brain analyses the information sent by senses and takes what it thinks is the appropriate action, like thinking whether an ugly situation can be avoided.

* Reflex action does not depend on brain. It is direct connection of eyes, ears to hand, legs; IMHO (because taking it to Court (mind/brain) would take time).
 
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Heyo

Veteran Member
* Reflex action does not depend on brain. It is direct connection of eyes, ears to hand, legs; IMHO (because taking it to Court (mind/brain) would take time).
There are reflexes that don't need the brain, like the knee-jerk reaction but reflexes that rely on vision or hearing need the brain, though they don't need the conscious part of the brain. The reflex to blink or to duck or block a fast incoming just needs the very fast, lower functions of the brain. The prefrontal cortex only gets informed after the fact.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
In biology, a reflex, or reflex action, is an involuntary, unplanned sequence or action and nearly instantaneous movement in response to a stimulus. A reflex is made possible by neural pathways called reflex arcs which can act on an impulse before that impulse reaches the brain. The reflex is then an automatic response to a stimulus that does not receive or need conscious thought.

Wikipedia lists many kind of reflexes. Good read.
 
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