Yajurveda: “This battle is the source of thy prosperity; hence we goad thee to that battle”

[paarsurrey]

The sum of all these posts:

Yes, war is part of life. Even if one does not want war, it is forced upon by others (like in case of India). Aryans requested divine help against enemies. Currently, India manufactures or buy armament to keep pace with its probable enemies, Pakistan and China, and maintains good relations with those who are not comfortable with Pakistan and China. The enemy of your enemy is your friend. Facts of life, cannot be dismissed. It is so in modern times, it was so even in Aryan times. Nothing strange about it.

I have selected the first image about this in Google images. There are so many others.

As one says " war is part of life", and Veda had a lot of it or most of it.
Does one agree to it? Please

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Yajurveda: “This battle is the source of thy prosperity; hence we goad thee to that battle”


Please see another quote from Yajurveda:

Yajurveda CHAPTER V Verse 37-38

37. May this General, the queller of the sinners like fire, give us
protection. This General expert in military skill, should in the battle
first attack and subdue the wicked foes. May he win all wars. May he
conquer foes. May he come out successful in combats, issuing necessary
administrative orders.

38. O General, attack the enemy with full force > and give ample
room for our abode. O learned General, just as fire assimilates ghee and
burns brightly -, so shouldst thou develop thy virtues and shine in battles.
Just as priests protecting the worshipper make him overcome all
calamities, so shouldst thou with thy oratory win battles.

https://archive.org/stream/yajurveda029670mbp/yajurveda029670mbp_djvu.txt

• Prosperity is sought with battles, no mention of peace, Ahimsa, or non-violence.

• Also note that a follower of Veda/Yajurveda becomes pure and holy by following the commands in Veda/Yajurveda see post #115 :

"Bringer of victory in battles. May we prosper and sing Thy praises. I become
pure and holy by following Thy commands. "

So wars were fought in obedience of clear commandment of Veda to become pure, hence these were not ordinary political wars but were religious wars to finish the non-believer "pagans" by slaying them.​

• Those who have one leg in the boat of Atheism and the other in Dharma, out of confusion, may please note that if they don't worship God they will get to harm ,in terms of the Verse 32 chapter3 of Yajurveda:

"32. Those who worship God are not molested by evil-minded foes
neither at home, nor upon pathways and battlefields. I become capable
of acquiring God and the sages."​

Right? Please​

• The basic character of a believer mentioned in the Veda is not of peace but of war as per Veda, may be due to the collaboration of the Brahmins and the Kshatriyas against the lower classes and the untouchables.All such verses need to be compressed and only some given in every chapter as representative of so many, many many more. Right? Please

Are the "sinners" mentioned in Veda in the above chapter V the enemies termed as "unbelievers of Veda" or are they "pagans"? Please
Who were these enemies? Please name them.
Did this battle happen before migration to the Indian-sub-Continent? Please
Is purity being sought for winning the battle only? Please
Did the Veda people win these wars are were they got defeated? Please
Is it spiritual while the word "material" is used in the verses given previously in this thread? Please

Regards

 

[Aupmanyav]

No one else round here. Just you and me. I have already said that 'war is an essential part of life'. More so when Aryans were in the steppes. Although these were not wars between empires, there were no empires at that time, these were more like skirmishes between tribes, at times even between two Aryan tribes. The enemies are not named. The demons of darkness, Vritra, Sambara, etc. belong to an earlier era, i.e., in the Sub-Arctic Original Homeland of Aryans which had two months of night. This was thousands of years before Aryans migrated to India, but Vedas and Avesta remembered that (without really understanding it). Aryans were pushed to South by their northern foes (probably Scythians), that is why some of them migrated to India. Avesta mention of Aryan lands gradually moves to South from Samarkand to Sapta Sindhu.

Sixteen Aryan Homelands mentioned in Zoroastrian Vendidad: 1. Airyana Vaejo (Original homeland - location not known) 2. Sugdha (Samarkand) 3. Mouru (Merv) 4. Bakdhi (Balkh) 5. Nisaya (Neyshabur/Maimana, Turkmenistan ?) 6. Hariova (Herat) 7. Vaereketa (Somewhere around Kabul ?) 8. Urva (Ghazni/Urgench/Tus ?) 9. Khnenta (Khuzdar ?) 10. Harahvaiti (Kandhar) 11. Haetumant (Lashkar Gah, Helmand) 12. Rai (Rustm Bazar, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa ?) 13. Chakra (Wardak in the valley of Lōgar River ?) 14. Varena (Bannu) 15. Sapta Sindhu (Panjab) 16. Raŋha (Rasa, between Rivers Kabul and Kurram, in RigVeda Kubha and Krumu - FATA, Federally Administered Tribal Area, Pakistan).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avestan_geography#Vendidad_references

 

[Aupmanyav]

Aryan Journey according to Zoroastrian Vendidad (location of some places is not sure):

 

[paarsurrey]

Aryan Journey according to Zoroastrian Vendidad (location of some places is not sure):

Do Zoroastrians accept Vendidad as their Scripture or Holy Book? Please
Zoroastrian friends in the forum please give their input. Please

Regards

 

[Aupmanyav]

Why don't you check this in Wikipedia? They have listed the Zoroastrian holy books.

"The Vendidad or Videvdat is a collection of texts within the greater compendium of the Avesta. However, unlike the other texts of the Avesta, the Vendidad is an ecclesiastical code, not a liturgical manual.

Name: The name of the texts is a contraction of the Avestan language Vî-Daêvô-Dāta, "Given Against the Daevas (Demons)", and as the name suggests, the Vendidad is an enumeration of various manifestations of evil spirits, and ways to confound them."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendidad

 

[paarsurrey]

Why don't you check this in Wikipedia? They have listed the Zoroastrian holy books.
"The Vendidad or Videvdat is a collection of texts within the greater compendium of the Avesta. However, unlike the other texts of the Avesta, the Vendidad is an ecclesiastical code, not a liturgical manual.
Name: The name of the texts is a contraction of the Avestan language Vî-Daêvô-Dāta, "Given Against the Daevas (Demons)", and as the name suggests, the Vendidad is an enumeration of various manifestations of evil spirits, and ways to confound them."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendidad

Zoroastrians believe in Yesna and Gathas, a part of Yesna.
They don't believe that Vendidad is their Holy Book from Zoroaster. Please
Regards

 

[Aupmanyav]

"Most of the Zoroastrians continue to use the Vendidad as a valued and fundamental cultural and ethical moral guide, viewing their teachings as essential to Zoroastrian tradition and see it as part of Zoroastrianism original perspectives about the truth of spiritual existence. They argue that it has origins on early oral tradition, being only later written."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendidad#Value_of_the_Vendidad_among_Zoroastrians

By that measure, it is Vedas' sister book. Of course, there may be some people with differing views.

 

[von bek]

So wars were fought in obedience of clear commandment of Veda to become pure, hence these were not ordinary political wars but were religious wars to finish the non-believer "pagans" by slaying them.​

​

Please provide a quote from the Vedas illustrating a command to slay pagans for being non-believers.

Who were these pagans?

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

"paarsurrey"

Namaste,

33. Ye two divine performers of harmless sacrifice, come hither
upon a plane with sun-bright exterior, and clearly accomplish your
journey, battle, and yajna with agreeable provisions.
34. O young preachers, having acquired knowledge through
celibacy, just as a learned person, the leader of all, endowed with noble
qualities, brilliant like the sun, highly lauded for his speeches on knowable
conduct, visits all our sons and cattle } so should ye approach and gladden
us, and purify our intellect.
35. O slayer of foes like sun, the slayer of clouds, father of supre-
macy in knowledge, giver of food, noble man, all things are in thy power
today, when wilt thou harness them.

Compare, Tulsi Ram

CH33 - Mantra 33 & 34

Devta Vidvan

33- Divine high priest of Love and compassion, come by the wondrous chariot of the sunbeams, take up and conduct the Yajna with honeyed materials of piety and purity. Like the Yajna of ancient times, this yajna too is brilliant and beautiful, wonderful and darling of the divinities.

No mention of Battle in this Mantra.

Savita Devta

34-generous and brilliant savita, celebrated life of the worlds, and vishvanara, vital heat of life, may be gracious to come to our yajna with holy materials and voices of divinity. Divinities ever young and young scholars too may come to us rejoicing on way to yajna so that they may sanctify our minds and all our life of the world.

No mention of slayer of the foes here.

 

[Aupmanyav]

A new map showing the travel of Aryans according to Vendidad:


Click to expand, starting from the second Aryan Homeland, Sugdha (Samarkand) - Sogdiana. Or was it really 'Sukha da' (one which gives happiness). Rasa (Ranha) being the last one.

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

"paarsurrey"

Namaste,

Please see another quote from Yajurveda:

Yajurveda CHAPTER V Verse 37-38

37. May this General, the queller of the sinners like fire, give us
protection. This General expert in military skill, should in the battle
first attack and subdue the wicked foes. May he win all wars. May he
conquer foes. May he come out successful in combats, issuing necessary
administrative orders.

38. O General, attack the enemy with full force > and give ample
room for our abode. O learned General, just as fire assimilates ghee and
burns brightly -, so shouldst thou develop thy virtues and shine in battles.
Just as priests protecting the worshipper make him overcome all
calamities, so shouldst thou with thy oratory win battles.

Tulsi Rams translations.

CH 5 37 & 38

Agni Devta

37- May this Agni, the fiesry man of courage and prowess, make the way to safty, security, walth and bliss. May he, breaking through the lines of the envious, go forward. May he defeat the enimy in battles and win victories. May he in joyous song, celebrate the victory for Agni.

Here the Devta (the subject) is Agni, this is in praise of Agni not War.

Devta Vishnu

38-Vishnu, Lord of life and sustenance/Man of knowledge, power and wealth, go far and forward in your exploits and enables us to expand with our homes, wealth, knowledge and happiness. Born of ghee and rising with ghee the fire devours its food and blazes. You too light the fire with knowledge and action and grow continuously in knowledge, action, wealth and happiness. Take the master of yajna across the fields of life, chanting the hymns of yajna, to a safe haven of joy.

I will let the readers decide the meaning of Mantra 38.

​

• • Those who have one leg in the boat of Atheism and the other in Dharma, out of confusion, may please note that if they don't worship God they will get to harm ,in terms of the Verse 32 chapter3 of Yajurveda:

  "32. Those who worship God are not molested by evil-minded foes
  neither at home, nor upon pathways and battlefields. I become capable
  of acquiring God and the sages."​

I have given the Mantra from 3 -32 by Tulsi Ram, lets let the readers decide.

 

[paarsurrey]

Yajurveda: “This battle is the source of thy prosperity; hence we goad thee to that battle”

Yajurveda CHAPTER VI

18. O warlike hero, may thy mind in battle be filled with know-
ledge, and thy breath be united to life's force. O hero, thou art the
killer of foes. May the fire of righteous indignation created by battle
mature thee. Facing millions of the army of enemies, let not the heat
generated by battle disturb thee.

May thou get refreshing drinks to fight in war with the velocity
of wind, and speed of the sun.

19. Oh warriors, drinkers of water, drink refreshing water. O
warriors expert in statesmanship, follow the policy of heroic action.
O general, thou shouldst stop the foes in the air. With thy martial
and commanding voice spread thy soldiers in all regions, by-regions,
fore-regions, back-regions, and regions in which the enemy goes, and
conquer the foes, by slaying their warriors.

20. O destroyer of the strength of the enemy, O general endowed
with beautiful knowledge, shine forth in the battle-field subduing all
https://archive.org/stream/yajurveda029670mbp/yajurveda029670mbp_djvu.txt

• Prosperity is sought with battles, no mention of peace, Ahimsa, or non-violence.

• Also note that a follower of Veda/Yajurveda becomes pure and holy by following the commands in Veda/Yajurveda see post #115 . Is it favoring Atheism or Strong Atheism? It is not. Right? Please

• Those who have one leg in one boat of Atheism and the other leg in Dharma boat should please note that if they don't worship God they will get to harm ,in terms of the Verse 32 chapter 1 of Yajurveda given in post#117 . Right? Please

• The basic character of a believer mentioned in the Veda is not of peace but war only due to the collaboration of the Brahmins and the Kshatriyas against the lower classes and the untouchables.All such verses need to be compressed and only some given in every chapter as representative of so many, many many more. Right? Please

Is it peaceful? Please
Who were these millions of enemies? Please name them.
Did this battle happen before migration to the Indian-sub-Continent? Please
Or if the Veda people were natives of the Indian-sub-Continents, then the must have lived in it. Please identify them. Is it unreasonable to ask such questions? Please
Is purity being sought for winning the battle only? Please
Did the Vedic people win this war are were got defeated? Please

Regards

 

[Kirran]

Hindus don't see the Yajurveda or other Vedas in the same way as Muslims see the Qur'an, paarsurrey.

 

[Vinayaka]

Hindus don't see the Yajurveda or other Vedas in the same way as Muslims see the Qur'an, paarsurrey.

Welcome to the 'club'. lol

 

[paarsurrey]

Hindus don't see the Yajurveda or other Vedas in the same way as Muslims see the Qur'an, paarsurrey.

Hindu or Hinduism is a Post-Vedic phenomenon. We are discussing the Vedic-Period, Veda-People and from the Veda only. Please
Regards

 

[Kirran]

Welcome to the 'club'. lol

I want out!

Hindu or Hinduism is a Post-Vedic phenomenon. We are discussing the Vedic-Period, Veda-People and from the Veda only. Please
Regards

Well then you're in the wrong place - here you have Hindus!

A great number of Hindus believe that the Vedas contain vidya, truthful knowledge or 'revelation', but that they do not do so exclusively. The Bhagavad Gita, the Ashtavakra Gita and the writings of more recent God-Realised sages also do so.

 

[Vinayaka]

I want out!

Each person gets to take a turn at cracking the paar code. Several of us have tried, quite unsuccessfully. But lately he's been quiet.

 

[Jainarayan]

We are discussing the Vedic-Period, Veda-People and from the Veda only.

Newsflash... they're all dead. Only Hindus are left.

 

[Kirran]

Newsflash... they're all dead. Only Hindus are left.

Good things Poeticus isn't around any more to hear that.

I'll try again: @paarsurrey - Hindu traditions do not function in the way that Islam often does as a religion entirely centred upon one book. What's more, Hindus see no need for this.