Yahweh is immoral

[Link]

The idea that one supposedly must believe and accept belief in one specific set of scriptures stands to no sense, imo. Let me explain.

Moses existed roughly somewhat over 3000 years b.p., and Jesus existed around 2000 years b.p. OTOH, yet we know that humans existed as humans more than 5,000,000 years ago. So for you math whizzes, do the math: 3000/5,000,000 = ? So, didn't God care about those who existed throughout most of human history?

And both Moses and Jesus lived in one small area of the world, so didn't God care about those people who lived in other areas of the world, such as in the Americas for example?

This, and some other things, decades ago led me to believe that God goes well beyond our concept of time and space, thus must be universal in nature.

I'll stop here as of now, but please don't stone the messenger, OK?

God's scriptures are found in all societies. In essence, they all call to follow the light of God and holy leaders appointed by him. If people are unaware of who God is channeling his light through, still, they can try to connect to his light and be guided by the holy spirit of the Guides.

The light of Ahlulbayt and there is always an Ahlulbayt, is always connected to all things.

If you read all holy books, they all call to the chosen masters. This includes the Kybalion The Bible and Quran.

Old holy books if they called those leaders chosen shamans or something else, it doesn't matter. Guidance in unseen journey is always by light of the Guides.

Every society knows about the spiritual realm, light and darkness, and that you need Guides from God to guide you in darkness to light.

If they don't know about Jesus or Mohammad who is the last Nabi, it doesn't matter.

There is always a Guide in each time, that if you pray to God to guide you by, he will you guide by him.

 

[Kenny]

There are other reasons why Yahweh may not be the one 'true' God - how can a 'true' God be angry and jealous? But actually it maybe that he has never said all those things and the writers of the OT just made it up.

It would depend on how you view God. IMV, one can be justly angry. And the word "jealous" has both good as well as bad connotations... it depends on how you use it. Love can also have both good and bad connotations.

 

[Link]

So the consequences of someone believing differently is hell? Again, how is that just?

Because believing something different in this case, is choosing desires over God's proofs, insights, and path laid out by him. It's to prefer ignorance over clear guidance from God.

It's to chose to be confused as opposed to be guided.

It's to chose to not value things as they are and see by the eyes of love the truth, and instead make up reality by falsehood and incline to other then the true living God.

It's to chose to make up a god per desires as opposed to accept the Great Creator for who he is.

And it's to choose the side of falsehood in battle between truth and falsehood.

To choose a path of darkness rather then door of light that God has opened for his creation has consequences.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Not according to Christians, Muslims and Jews

You speak for them all?

 

[Link]

Disconnecting from God and running towards illusions through falsehood and dark sorcery, will have consequences.

God has given every soul a sword of honor to battle by, you fight your enemy Satan or you die. Just like you take care of yourself not to physically die, you been entrusted to safeguard your soul.

Every soul is responsible for what it earns. Turning away from God's guidance and not searching for his light, and giving into intoxication of Satanic forces, has consequences.

 

[Link]

It would depend on how you view God. IMV, one can be justly angry. And the word "jealous" has both good as well as bad connotations... it depends on how you use it. Love can also have both good and bad connotations.

God wants to save people from his wrath. Punishing them severely is not something he wants to do, but this life is a trial and it's the proper response to those who die evil. He surely does what he wills, but what I mean, is God wants people to go to paradise but they make things difficult on themselves and we not helping one another towards God and righteousness, but towards vanity and wasting life.

We can all help one another. We can save each other from hell. But it's all fun and games till it's too late and when it's too late, it's too late.

 

[Kenny]

God wants to save people from his wrath. Punishing them severely is not something he wants to do, but this life is a trial and it's the proper response to those who die evil. He surely does what he wills, but what I mean, is God wants people to go to paradise but they make things difficult on themselves and we not helping one another towards God and righteousness, but towards vanity and wasting life.

We can all help one another. We can save each other from hell. But it's all fun and games till it's too late and when it's too late, it's too late.

Nothing I can disagree with here. In our Book it says,

PHILLIPS
But you should never lose sight of this fact, dear friends, that time is not the same with the Lord as it is with us—to him a day may be a thousand years, and a thousand years only a day. It is not that he is dilatory about keeping his own promise as some men seem to think; the fact is that he is very patient towards you. He has no wish that any man should be destroyed. He wishes that all men should come to repent.

Or, as it was said of Jesus, John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

 

[ppp]

Punishing them severely is not something he wants to do, but this life is a trial and it's the proper response to those who die evil.

It is really not a proper response. It is, in and of itself, an evil response.

 

[Link]

It is really not a proper response. It is, in and of itself, an evil response.

It is an evil response because the proper response to evil is an evil like it. Of course, God is not going to be nice to evil people who refuse to change their ways. Death is a time ticker, we either die in a good state (be patient to reach that) or we die evil (were bold to risk hell and take our chances).

We directed ourselves away from God so God will let us go towards what we wish to run towards. That's justice.

We could've easily turned to God and asked his forgiveness and sought to humble ourselves to his chosen ones, rather then being arrogant towards them.

 

[clara17]

My argument is simple.
It is immoral to send a good person to hell for the sin of worshiping another god.

A girl is born in Pakistan into a Hindu family. Throughout her life she proves over and over again that she is the perfect archetype of a principle centered moral and just person. She has heard about other religions but practices Hindu faith becuse she was born into it.

If Yahweh is the one true God, and heaven and hell exists, then this woman's soul will be tortured in hell for all eternity?

Number one, Yahweh is not the name of God.
Number two, the Bible never says people will be tortured for eternity, it says they will die.
Number three, a lot of people are suffering for lack of knowledge.
And for things that were done
by people who lived long, long before them.
If you are an alcoholic, and abuse your family, it will effect your children, their children, and so on for
who knows how many generations.
That doesnt mean God made those decisions.

 

[clara17]

God is the Lord of all religions so why wouldn’t He accept her Hindu prayers? All humanity are God’s children. God loves Hindus just as He loves Christians, Jews, Muslims and atheists.

Heaven and hell are metaphors for spiritual life or spiritual death. So life is the life of faith and death is the spiritual death of unbelief. If we turn against God and choose a life of crime and violence we will create our own hell, but if we love each other then this world will become like a paradise.

God (the creator) is not the God of ANY religions.
And he wouldn't accept the prayers, the same way you wouldnt accept your
neighbors request to borrow your lawn mower, if he went to someone else's house and asked them to borrow theirs.

 

[Link]

Nothing I can disagree with here. In our Book it says,

PHILLIPS
But you should never lose sight of this fact, dear friends, that time is not the same with the Lord as it is with us—to him a day may be a thousand years, and a thousand years only a day. It is not that he is dilatory about keeping his own promise as some men seem to think; the fact is that he is very patient towards you. He has no wish that any man should be destroyed. He wishes that all men should come to repent.

Or, as it was said of Jesus, John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

It is said Imam Hussain (a) cried for his enemies when he was about to be killed, for he said they will go to hell due to killing him.

The chosen ones are God's sword on earth, he distinguishes good and evil through them, and oppressors oppress due to the hate they have towards them to their followers.

They are sent as a mercy, but if people are ungrateful for God's favors, then the consequences are severe just as the benefits of accepting them are intensely rewarding.

They are meant to be accepted as God's chosen kings and they remain kings inwardly even if not accepted outwardly. Their intercession is by through which God saves souls and intervenes on our misguiding paths through their light. They pull back to God.

Why choose ignorant leaders and people of falsehood over the ones God has chosen for us and reject God's chosen leadership in his chosen ones for people with no proof of authority?

Evil is the choice. We live and die by the decisions we make in regards to the holy souls chosen by God and the holy books that establish their authority.

 

[ppp]

It is an evil response because the proper response to evil is an evil like it.

It is not.

And he wouldn't accept the prayers, the same way you wouldnt accept your
neighbors request to borrow your lawn mower,

Why wouldn't I let my neighbor borrow my lawnmower? And if he did borrow it without my permission, I certainly would not stick him in my basement and torture him. That sounds like demon logic to me. Are you sure you are not worshipping a demon?

 

[Link]

It is not.

It's because you don't know the nature of evil. On day of judgment, the true nature of deeds will manifest. Those who are awake from humans and not under heedless sleep spell of Iblis and his forces, are under the covering of day of judgment already, and to them, it's as if it's events are happening.

You can't asses the proper response to evil if you don't know it's hideous nature.

Part of Islam is to awaken people to the vast difference between evil and good, and that we shouldn't mix the two.

Of course, if we fall and sin, we must repent and not allow our souls to perish. To sin, become evil and try to force God and his chosen to have to accept us or reject them, is an evil that is beyond redemption if we die in that state.

 

[setarcos]

My argument is simple.
It is immoral to send a good person to hell for the sin of worshiping another god.

A girl is born in Pakistan into a Hindu family. Throughout her life she proves over and over again that she is the perfect archetype of a principle centered moral and just person. She has heard about other religions but practices Hindu faith becuse she was born into it.

If Yahweh is the one true God, and heaven and hell exists, then this woman's soul will be tortured in hell for all eternity?

Three things to consider in my opinion.
1) That's an incredibly limited view of justice and comes from the human perspective.
2) God acts according to divine justice not human justice.
3) If the Christian God exists it is absolutely sovereign over its creation and divine justice by definition is always just. Because of the limitations of human understanding divine justice may seem unjust by human standards. This is because humans are subject to degrees of ignorance in their understanding.
That is the theory of Christian divine justice. If you don't believe in a Christian God (Yahweh) then the question is mute. If you do then, no matter how much we wish we knew everything its patently obvious we don't and to dismiss God because of our limitations in understanding is foolish.

 

[ppp]

It's because you don't know the nature of evil.

It's because your god does not meet my minimal standards for morality.

 

[Link]

It's because your god does not meet my minimal standards for morality.

Your standards are made by your caprice. Why should he have to meet them when they aren't rational?

 

[blü 2]

I think every human who doesn't go to God's door and is arrogant towards his treasured signs and guidance and doesn't strive for God and finding his ways and path, can't be righteous, no matter how much they convince themselves.

I think every human who treats others with decency, respect and inclusion is thereby living a moral life regardless of her or his views respecting religion.

And watching the Taliban taking over Afghanistan, I feel little but revulsion and contempt for their violent, murderous, misogynist smugness, which they profess in the name of their god.

 

[ppp]

Your standards are made by your caprice. Why should he have to meet them when they aren't rational?

Actually mine are not caprice. They are founded in the facticity of my biology. Your god's morality, however, is entirely caprice. You claim that morality is merely what ever your god happens to say it is. That is the very definition of caprice. Or, if you like, whimsey.

 

[clara17]

Obviously, Yahweh is a fictional national God. Uprgaded to supreme during the Greek occupation.

"Hellenistic traits adopted by Judaism:
-Other deities, who had previously been associated with national destiny (e.g., Zeus, Yahweh, and Isis), were raised to the status of transcendent, supreme .

Deu 4:35: It was shown to you that there is no other God.
(before the people were even in the land Israel, not a Hellenistic trait later adopted)

-this led to a change from concern for a religion of national prosperity to one for individual salvation, from focus on a particular ethnic group to concern for every human. The prophet or saviour replaced the priest and king as the chief religious figure. "

Really? When did that happen?

(Isaiah 56 among countless other scriptures before the Hellenistic period says he is saviour of all, not just Israel.)

-his process was carried further through the identification of the experiences of the soul that was to be saved with the vicissitudes of a divine but fallen soul, which had to be redeemed by cultic activity and divine intervention. This view is illustrated in the concept of the paradoxical figure of the saved saviour, salvator salvandus.

Saved savior? Redeemed by cultic activity? What Bible translation are you reading?