Yadavas Hebrews farmers. How come Jews thought Hebrews were slaves?

[firedragon]

I tired to look up other Greek Interlinear for Genesis 13 to see if they mentioned "Egypt" by whatever name. The only other interlinear (attached) also gives no "Egypt."

Please don't say "only other" because what you really mean is "only other that you can find on the internet".

Try a Lexicon. If you want a name, try Johan Lust & Erik Eynkel. It's a lexicon of the Septuagint. Also, you can try Marcus J Borg.

Also, in the link you gave of a greek internet link of Genesis 13, the fifth word is Egypt.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Lol. I gave you all the details already Dr. Bharat. Every single thing you said was already given, and I even gave you the exact reference of the exact verse to check on the exact extant manuscript. I have a feeling you are not attempting to understand anything whatsoever. It's bad scholarship and extremely bad temperament of a scholar.

In order to confirm or deny a codex using or not a particular Hebrew word, it is absolutely nonsensical to look for Hebrew words in a greek book. I can't believe the world has come to this level of low.

Let me ask you something. Forget "Mitsrayim". Can you show me the plural "Im" in any Greek document ever found in history? One book in history. Just show the plural "im". This is like looking for the English word Thames in the Sanskrit book Yajurved or an arabic book Qur'an. This is absurd. I have never experienced such thinking.

Different languages could only have translations.

Let me make a challenge to you Dr. Bharat so that rather than asking for so many details you will do one single research.

Show me one single manuscript of the Septuagint ever found in the history of the world with the word "Mitsrayim".

Can you?

Secondly Dr. Bharat. Your research method is so poor. It's purely like an absolute amateur or a brand new sophomore doing quick googling as research. Well, honestly even a sophomore will read up.

The Codex Sinaiticus (I am saying this for the umpteenth time) is the oldest existing extant septuagint manuscript so far found. If it does not have some parts of the book, look in the parts that are available.

Again, your research is like losing your key in the park but searching for it at home because you have a light bulb at home. that's not how you do research. Buy a flashlight, and go to the park, and look for the key where you dropped it.

Firstly, for a person speaking about septuagint so much you should have known where to look and for what in the first place. Second, you should have the humility as a Phd in any field make some effort and ask questions where ever necessary. I made the effort to look for the word you require, take screen shots, circle them, give you the greek, give you the translation, give you the manuscript, and give you even the website to see the manuscript. Still you are talking about confirming if a Hebrew word for Egypt is existing in a greek manuscript.

I have never heard anything absurd in my life from a scholar who has written a book on the subject.

Pl provide a word by word Greek English interlinear of sinaticus. I cannot find it. Maybe results will astonish you.

 

[firedragon]

Pl provide a word by word Greek English interlinear of sinaticus. I cannot find it.

Modern day Septuagint traditions are based on Sinaiticus. If you study a little on the septuagint, you would know.

I cannot find it. Maybe results will astonish you.

That's just wishful thinking because you are not a person who does good research.

I can see you will not do any proper research other than quick internet searches Dr. Bharat, but just being pragmatic, I can recommend Vetus Testamentum as of course worked on by experts in the field. But sorry to say when you are looking hard for an absurd confirmation bias it won't work. I can't believe you are looking for a Hebrew name for Egypt in a Koine Greek writing. It's probably the most unbelievable thing I have seen by someone who claims to have done the research. Unbelievable.

I think Dr. Bharat, what you are looking for is quick googling, uninvested so called "research" done within a few minutes, and maybe not even google translate. I remember a guy who claimed to be a scholar in this forum came out and said an arabic sentence I wrote here was about gold because he had gone and done a google translate.

Please do some research. At least try taking the snapshot of the Seutuagint manuscript from Sinaiticus I gave you and send it to a scholar in the United States, give the exact reference of the verse I gave you to the scholar and ask him what it translates into. At least do that. I know it's a little bit of work, but as a genuine layman in the field that's the least one could do.

But if you are willing to spend two hours on the topic which is a little better, you will look at the Greek text I gave you, go through the Greek alphabet and look a bit in a Strongs lexicon.

You know something? I just typed "Egypt" in google translate. It actually gives the Greek text. Have you even looking at it and seeing if the images I gave you with the word circled for your convenience are similar? Is not that something any one could do?

Unbelievable.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

I am not convinced by translations. "based on Sinaiticus" means that the translator may have added Egypt. Just send me link of the original Sinaiticus with Interlinear translation. That alone will indicate whether Egypt was mentioned in Sinaiticus or not. I also would like you to provide a link in support of your assertion that available LXX was based on Sinaiticus. Yet one more problem is that only fragments of Sinaiticus are available. So I do not know whether the particular translation given by you is original or interpolation.

 

[rosends]

I don't have a Sinaiticus with interlinear. I have the Septuagint interlinear which I lined up with the Sinaiaticus. It seems like a lot of Sinaiaticus is missing (including all of Exodus) but I found mention of Egypt in Numbers 20. I put red brackets around KAI (and) in order to ground this, and I underlined in purple the word corresponding to Egypt. The resolution isn't great, but this should give you a start

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

I don't have a Sinaiticus with interlinear. I have the Septuagint interlinear which I lined up with the Sinaiaticus. It seems like a lot of Sinaiaticus is missing (including all of Exodus) but I found mention of Egypt in Numbers 20. I put red brackets around KAI (and) in order to ground this, and I underlined in purple the word corresponding to Egypt. The resolution isn't great, but this should give you a start
View attachment 65795

That helps. Thx. Now the question is whether the content of an event can be dated by the ms in which it is mentioned? Exodus took place in c. 1500 bce. Sinaiticus was composed in 350 ce. Masoretic around 800.900 ce. The info was carried orally or otherwise for 1850 and 2400 years respectively. How do we know which is more authentic? For example a history of ww2 written in Germany in 1944 does not mean that it is more authentic than a history written in the UK in say 1960. Further, I would like you to guide as to why Egypt not mentioned in the interlinear I sent.

 

[River Sea]

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala how exciting @sayak83 knows about Vaivaswat Manu and flood - here's what sayak83 wrote in another thread.

The actual story was from Manu of the Hindu scriptures of course. They circulated it elsewhere once humans repopulated the earth from Indus Valley after the flood...

I refence what sayak83 wrote in this thread
Bible, the foundational book of books?

Oh @sayak83 I'm so thrill you know about Vaivaswat Manu., I wasn't expecting this when browsing through this whole forum, as it seems so difficult to find people who knows., how come its so hard to find people who knows about Vaivaswat Manu?

Please meet @Bharat Jhunjhunwala he knows too.

Because you know about Vaivaswat Manu., I'm now curious, have you ever heard about Yadavas Hebrews as farmers and practiced the profession of cattle rearing in Indus Valley before Exodus, if so, I wonder if this might had help when traveling from Indus Valley to Yisrael during Exodus era? Because of the skills they known as they understood the land and how to survive, would you think so too? Or can you tell me more about Yadavas Hebrews that you know of?

I'm so excited to meet you Sayak83 and hear your thoughts.

 

[River Sea]

humans repopulated the earth from Indus Valley after the flood

@sayak83 @Bharat Jhunjhunwala

The Meena Community believes it has descended from Vaivaswat Manu so knows about flood at Jalore near in the Indus Valley., however what about the rest of India, is this common knowledge in India. Does the Gautamji Temple, Jalore, help teach this? How did this knowledge not be known to all living on earth but changed to the Noah flood instead?

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

@sayak83 @Bharat Jhunjhunwala

The Meena Community believes it has descended from Vaivaswat Manu so knows about flood at Jalore near in the Indus Valley., however what about the rest of India, is this common knowledge in India. Does the Gautamji Temple, Jalore, help teach this? How did this knowledge not be known to all living on earth but changed to the Noah flood instead?

Rest of India knows about the Flood. Various locations for the Flood are suggested. I find this to be credible. Gautamji Temple is located right in the middle of the Fllod area. It tells of Meena community but even here there is no assertion that the Flood took place here.
The Flood legend was carried from here to across the world. The Hebrews carried this legend with them at 1500 BCE. They gave the name Noah to Manu: Manu > Manowah > Noah.

 

[River Sea]

Rest of India knows about the Flood. Various locations for the Flood are suggested. I find this to be credible. Gautamji Temple is located right in the middle of the Fllod area. It tells of Meena community but even here there is no assertion that the Flood took place here.
The Flood legend was carried from here to across the world. The Hebrews carried this legend with them at 1500 BCE. They gave the name Noah to Manu: Manu > Manowah > Noah.

Rest of India knows about the Flood and I learn this from you @Bharat Jhunjhunwala

So as everyone in India knows., I didn't know 'till you told me...

So what caused the world not to know what all Indians in India know?

How did Hebrews from places other then India their believes became dominated that then caused Indian beliefs from India to not be known., what causes that?

 

[River Sea]

I understand Krishna was from the King Yadu line. Am I understanding this correctly?

The Greeks referred to the Jews as Judeos, or Jah deos or Yadavas, meaning people of Ya or descendants of Yadu, one of the sons of Yayati

 

[dybmh]

I understand Krishna was from the King Yadu line. Am I understanding this correctly?

I think it is a mistake to ascribe this quantity, magnitude, of significance to a single very common syllable. "Ya" linguistically is simple and easy to say. Naturally, it will be common among geographically diverse people without any other significance beyond it is easy to say.

It is easy to say. That's the most likely reason both cultures have it included in their language. Nothing more.

Are you from this yadava region, my friend? Are you seeking an explanation for your own unique experiences?

 

[crossfire]

Mitsrayim is located in Indus Valley India - showing archeologist evidence baking bricks with straw, in Egypt, KMT, Kemet build with stone no need for straw. So what caused this reidentify where Mitsrayim is located in Egypt, KMT, Kemet?

In Ancient Egypt, stone was usually reserved for temples. Mudbrick was used for other buildings, including royal palaces. Ancient moulds for mudbricks have been found in Egypt, as well as paintings depicting mudbrick making on tomb walls.

The Global Egyptian Museum | Mud bricks

In Egypt, mud bricks were made of Nile mud, a mixture of clay and sand, sometimes mixed with bits of straw or animal droppings. This was mixed with water to form a malleable mass and then pressed into moulds. These moulds, of which we have some actual examples as well as miniature models, were rectangular with an open top and bottom. The lump of clay was then left in the sun to dry. Very occasionally, and mainly in the Roman period, the mud bricks were also baked in a kiln. The making of mud bricks is illustrated in models from the Middle Kingdom and on tomb walls. Most of the mud bricks made in this way were a handy size, but mud bricks of up to a meter in length have also been found. The oldest mud bricks have been found in tombs dating from the Predynastic Period at Naqada and in royal tombs at Abydos. Tombs from the 1st and 2nd Dynasties at Saqqara and Abydos are also constructed of mud brick. A mud brick fortification was built at Abydos in the 2nd Dynasty, the walls of which were more than ten meters high. The Middle Kingdom pyramids were also partly built of mud brick. Even when stone was readily available as a building material for tombs and temples, mud brick continued to be used to build houses and palaces.
​

 

[crossfire]

I've been reading
Common Prophets
Of the Jews, Christians, Muslims
and Hindus
By Bharat Jhunjhunwala

I hope that helps understanding where my questions are coming from.
I'll see if I can find it in the Torah too., I'm still seeking to understand what are all the reasons why Ptolemy is so involved in the Torah for.. What causes these interests?

If you are only going by the written records, then the Yadavas of the Indus Valley would likely include the descendants of Abraham through his late-life wife Keturah. He sent these sons away with gifts while he was alive. (Genesis 25:1-6)
The book of Job mentions that Job was living in the land of the East, and one of his friends mentioned was Bildad the Shuhite, possibly a descendant of Shuah, one of the sons of Abraham from his wife Keturah. (Job 2:11)

 

[dybmh]

what caused this reidentify where Mitsrayim is located in Egypt, KMT, Kemet?

It's not a re-identify. Mitzrayim MEANS restriction or bondage. In other words, it's the place where the Jewish people were enslaved. Unless there is a story of slavery in this other region, then applying the name "mitzrayim" to it would be ...

Well, again, I ask.

My friend, Why is it so important to rewrite this story and place the Jewish people in this region? Where is the attachment to this comming from?

 

[dybmh]

If you are only going by the written records, then the Yadavas of the Indus Valley would likely include the descendants of Abraham through his late-life wife Keturah. He sent these sons away with gifts while he was alive. (Genesis 25:1-6)
The book of Job mentions that Job was living in the land of the East, and one of his friends mentioned was Bildad the Shuhite, possibly a descendant of Shuah, one of the sons of Abraham from his wife Keturah. (Job 2:11)

Where are you finding the lineage of Keturah which places her in the Indus valley? The only clues to her past in the text come from her name, as far as I know.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I find it deeply offensive to view these attempts by some of the Indians in the forum to misappropriate Jewish stories. It is no less wrong than dressing up as an Indian stereotype for Halloween.

 

[crossfire]

Where are you finding the lineage of Keturah which places her in the Indus valley? The only clues to her past in the text come from her name, as far as I know.

Not necessarily Keturah herself, but her sons (and their descendants) whom Abraham sent away. Although Job's land of Uz is not as far away as the Indus Valley, his friend Bildad the Shuhite does suggest that at least some of these sons (Shuah) did go to the east.

 

[dybmh]

Not necessarily Keturah herself, but her sons (and their descendants) whom Abraham sent away. Although Job's land of Uz is not as far away as the Indus Valley, his friend Bildad the Shuhite does suggest that at least some of these sons (Shuah) did go to the east.

Job wasn't Jewish according to the story.

I'll look into those descendants, thanks.

 

[crossfire]

Job wasn't Jewish according to the story.

I'll look into those descendants, thanks.

I'm not saying Job was Jewish. I'm saying he lived in the land of the east, in Uz. This separation from Abraham took place before there were Jews. The text itself says that Abraham sent the sons of his concubines off to the east. (Gen 25:1-6)