Wrapping my head around this...

[Unveiled Artist]

I know many people define atheist differently. Most on RF don't claim "knowledge that god doesn't exist" just lack of belief on a sliding scale.

I am an hardstone, cold, point blank atheist. Always was, always will be. (Maybe gnostic is better? I have knowledge that god doesn't exist... that aside)

1. God of abraham is said to be a being or spirit. How can he be a spirit when he has no body with whom that spirit comes from? (To Muslims, Jews, Christians, and others that don't believe in jesus or that jesus is god)

2. In mainstream christianity (since I don't know about Islam and Judaism) jesus is god. Now I've seen spirits. Every spirit I've seen and experienced was once a human. So, this makes more sense that jesus is a spirit. Since god has no physical attributes, he can't be nor represent god. I heard all the arguments before. It just leaves me thinking: If jesus is god, the father, then who is his father? If jesus and god are separate (one human and one being) and they are both god, then what defines god since he is would either be a spirit with no physical representation of him or a human in and of itself?

3. God is said to be consciousness. Do you guys mean the mind? Is god part of your mind and "he's" creating your thoughts and emotions? Neurons moving through parts of your brain does that. Thoughts are collective thoughts picked up by your brain like 0011s to a computer and translated into thoughts that are only restated in the brain. Nothing new from inside out. We just can't label it. So, if god is consciousness, wouldn't everyone acknowledge consciousness and given they have a mind and thoughts, wouldn't everyone already interpret their thoughts as greater then themselves? Is this type of god selective or is this type of god an emotion or something you can't define?

4. God is said to be everywhere and everything. Pantheism. Energy is everywhere and in everything. Energy (heat and all of that) creates and sustains life. So, taking spiritual terminology out, is god energy? I can't think of another term to use if it isn't energy because no other term to me captures the fact of how life begins, lives, and dies. I know it sounds like a cold way to describe god, but is god in pantheism an elegant way of saying god is energy?

5. God is said to be object(s) and people(s) for that matter of worship. What's the real purpose of worship? Of course even us atheist are grateful to others, our environment, and ourselves. It has nothing to do with our religions since everyone can experience the same thing regardless their religion or lack thereof. What is the reason of holding things "sacred"? I mean, you can still live life in gratitude et cetera without singling out an aspect of reality rather than considering all reality and everything and everyone sacred.

6. Last, god is said to be a mystical experience. Something greater (or undefined). Maybe defined my mythology, who knows. For another thread, perhaps. However, mystical experiences cannot happen without our involvement in our environment and people. How we put together pieces of our lives and patterns are not universal. If god is an experience, and everyone has experiences, wouldn't this mystical experience be universal? A fact. Something that is a part of life that all can share in? Why "mystical" though? Of course, some feelings are hard to explain. Why are they special?

Basically, what is a god? (I asked this before but kind of asking it in questions in hopes someone would actually read the thread and think about what I'm asking before replying).

If you can't describe it, then how is it more of a god than my not able to explain an physical and mental experience to my psychologist which may or may not be related to depression or anxiety?

Yes, I've had "mystical" experiences but I don't all them that since I don't like the sacred-concept and putting things and people above or below myself. Last question, once you put something or someone above or below yourself in sacredness, you make whatever it is you worship a god. Do you really need to do this to understand the mystery of life?

Can't experiences be experiences? and why do you guys need a purpose or origin when our purpose and origin are unfolding daily? It's not a big bang. It's not from a creator. It just is.

You can quote scripture but I would love to ask the same things to Moses and Jesus but they aren't alive right now, so basically you're telling me words of Moses and the apostles not jesus and most definitely not god.

Okay. I let this gather dust but if you reply please be polite. I put some people on ignore unfortunately because with all my threads they post something rude and completely irrelevant.

 

[james bond]

>>I am an hardstone, cold, point blank atheist. Always was, always will be.I am an hardstone, cold, point blank atheist. Always was, always will be.<<

I recently got a stronger definition of atheist from academia and that is an atheist is one who disavows the existence of God. Previously, I thought it was one who doesn't believe in the existence of God. To me, this means you're eliminating someone else's thinking who believes or may believe in the existence of God completely. The thinking is it's not ok, I can't accept your way of thinking. Your thoughts and ideas are eliminated. This is what today's secular science has done, so I think that the stronger definition is correct even though it makes secular science not be actual science anymore. In the past, the scientific search for knowledge and truth was always open to a different view if it could be explained scientifically or even philosophically..

So, for me to answer your questions I don't see a point. Instead, why do you have questions or why do you want to know? The answers seem simple enough.

For example,

1. God the Father is considered spirit, i.e. invisible, and has been described as spirit in several places in the Bible. That said, he's also been described with human features in several other places in Scripture. Thus, people have described having had interactions with God in seeing and touching God in these passages. This means we acknowledge God exists in two ways. One is invisible. We can't see him in our material world. The other is God exists anthropomorphically. He can be seen and touched as human-like that we can refer to. Maybe the person who sees him can actually see and interact with him, but somebody witnessing the event may not be able to. This leads us to how God is depicted in his relationships and historical events with us. It seems that we had more experiences with God in the past, but we are having less experiences with God now in the present. That's just my opinion. It could be that we aren't writing these down anymore. And I'm not sure if that means or implies anything.

You mention that you are spiritual, but I can't relate to that because of not having any experience. I can understand that a person existed at one time and now you can contact said person in another world. This spirit may be experienced as having human form. Or is this person completely invisible and there is no way to describe said spirit?

 

[CogentPhilosopher]

I know many people define atheist differently. Most on RF don't claim "knowledge that god doesn't exist" just lack of belief on a sliding scale.

I am an hardstone, cold, point blank atheist. Always was, always will be. (Maybe gnostic is better? I have knowledge that god doesn't exist... that aside)

1. God of abraham is said to be a being or spirit. How can he be a spirit when he has no body with whom that spirit comes from? (To Muslims, Jews, Christians, and others that don't believe in jesus or that jesus is god)

2. In mainstream christianity (since I don't know about Islam and Judaism) jesus is god. Now I've seen spirits. Every spirit I've seen and experienced was once a human. So, this makes more sense that jesus is a spirit. Since god has no physical attributes, he can't be nor represent god. I heard all the arguments before. It just leaves me thinking: If jesus is god, the father, then who is his father? If jesus and god are separate (one human and one being) and they are both god, then what defines god since he is would either be a spirit with no physical representation of him or a human in and of itself?

3. God is said to be consciousness. Do you guys mean the mind? Is god part of your mind and "he's" creating your thoughts and emotions? Neurons moving through parts of your brain does that. Thoughts are collective thoughts picked up by your brain like 0011s to a computer and translated into thoughts that are only restated in the brain. Nothing new from inside out. We just can't label it. So, if god is consciousness, wouldn't everyone acknowledge consciousness and given they have a mind and thoughts, wouldn't everyone already interpret their thoughts as greater then themselves? Is this type of god selective or is this type of god an emotion or something you can't define?

4. God is said to be everywhere and everything. Pantheism. Energy is everywhere and in everything. Energy (heat and all of that) creates and sustains life. So, taking spiritual terminology out, is god energy? I can't think of another term to use if it isn't energy because no other term to me captures the fact of how life begins, lives, and dies. I know it sounds like a cold way to describe god, but is god in pantheism an elegant way of saying god is energy?

5. God is said to be object(s) and people(s) for that matter of worship. What's the real purpose of worship? Of course even us atheist are grateful to others, our environment, and ourselves. It has nothing to do with our religions since everyone can experience the same thing regardless their religion or lack thereof. What is the reason of holding things "sacred"? I mean, you can still live life in gratitude et cetera without singling out an aspect of reality rather than considering all reality and everything and everyone sacred.

6. Last, god is said to be a mystical experience. Something greater (or undefined). Maybe defined my mythology, who knows. For another thread, perhaps. However, mystical experiences cannot happen without our involvement in our environment and people. How we put together pieces of our lives and patterns are not universal. If god is an experience, and everyone has experiences, wouldn't this mystical experience be universal? A fact. Something that is a part of life that all can share in? Why "mystical" though? Of course, some feelings are hard to explain. Why are they special?

Basically, what is a god? (I asked this before but kind of asking it in questions in hopes someone would actually read the thread and think about what I'm asking before replying).

If you can't describe it, then how is it more of a god than my not able to explain an physical and mental experience to my psychologist which may or may not be related to depression or anxiety?

Yes, I've had "mystical" experiences but I don't all them that since I don't like the sacred-concept and putting things and people above or below myself. Last question, once you put something or someone above or below yourself in sacredness, you make whatever it is you worship a god. Do you really need to do this to understand the mystery of life?

Can't experiences be experiences? and why do you guys need a purpose or origin when our purpose and origin are unfolding daily? It's not a big bang. It's not from a creator. It just is.

You can quote scripture but I would love to ask the same things to Moses and Jesus but they aren't alive right now, so basically you're telling me words of Moses and the apostles not jesus and most definitely not god.

Okay. I let this gather dust but if you reply please be polite. I put some people on ignore unfortunately because with all my threads they post something rude and completely irrelevant.

Sounds like gnostic atheism.

In other words you assert that there are no deities.

I am an agnostic atheist.

In other words I assert it is unlikely that there are any deities.

I do not think we can categorically rule out the deistic notion of deity for example.

 

[sun rise]

To me it does not matter if you dislike the word "God" and prefer to use words like "Truth", "Joy" and "Love". It's all the same to me no matter what label you pin on it. And sometimes labels can be a barrier.

I personally am attracted to songs with lyrics like this that speak of "Godliness" but that's me:

Life is a joy for all to share,
So Leave your prison house of self
And walk a world that you’ve never known.
Love will open its hidden realms
And show you the face of the true self you are,
Son of the cosmos, daughter of stars.
Godliness is yours when love is what you are.

 

[Jeff Strehlow]

Carlita; since you are also interested in Mahayana Buddhism, I'd like to respond from a Mahayana Buddhist's perspective and try to connect it to Christianity.

You are interested in knowing who/what you are and interested in knowing who/what God is. Well, you are the enlightened mind. You are Buddha. That's the real you. In the later part of the Saddharma Pundarika Sutra, the Tathagata explained that he has always existed. As a Buddha he saw that he always existed and was always a Buddha, but at some point earlier--before he was enlightened--don't you think that he thought that he was subject to birth and death? Sure his physical body was subject to birth and death, but his physical body didn't constitute him. Well the same is the case with you. Does this enlightened mind consist of spirit/matter or energy? No. It is simply enlightenment.

Personally, I think that it's possible that the real meaning of God in Christianity might be this enlightened mind, but that the vast majority of people misunderstand and think that God is some guy. I've been saying on this board that I am an atheist because I don't believe in this "guy", but I definitely do believe in the enlightened mind. Remember what some famous Zen masters said. They said "mind is Buddha". They were speaking of the minds of all sentient beings, and that includes your mind.

 

[bobhikes]

What is God, God is simply that extra help a person needs when things get

If you can't describe it, then how is it more of a god than my not able to explain an physical and mental experience to my psychologist which may or may not be related to depression or anxiety?

Yes, I've had "mystical" experiences but I don't all them that since I don't like the sacred-concept and putting things and people above or below myself. Last question, once you put something or someone above or below yourself in sacredness, you make whatever it is you worship a god. Do you really need to do this to understand the mystery of life?

Can't experiences be experiences? and why do you guys need a purpose or origin when our purpose and origin are unfolding daily? It's not a big bang. It's not from a creator. It just is.

God is not anything more than a personal psychologist but why do we need a psychologist. What makes you need another to help with your problems? You've had mystical experiences but you claim that you don't put them above or below you. What makes them mystical?

The constant is that all of us are surprised and overwhelmed by life at times. A person that is detached from our life and can understand and be helpful is always welcome. For most of us that is god. For you it is a confident or a psychologist. God exists in us, God is our moral compass, God has our best interest. Yes God could just be a voice in our heads but why is another humans voice better. Why should we listen to someone we need to pay for help. How can you be sure this person is understanding you as well as you understand yourself?

Many say technological advances and discoveries have lessened our need for god but I disagree I say it is pharmaceutical and psychological advances and there availability that have curtailed the need for God and I am not sure it is a good thing.

 

[Fool]

I know many people define atheist differently. Most on RF don't claim "knowledge that god doesn't exist" just lack of belief on a sliding scale.

I am an hardstone, cold, point blank atheist. Always was, always will be. (Maybe gnostic is better? I have knowledge that god doesn't exist... that aside)

1. God of abraham is said to be a being or spirit. How can he be a spirit when he has no body with whom that spirit comes from? (To Muslims, Jews, Christians, and others that don't believe in jesus or that jesus is god)

IMO it was called "he" because of the patriarchal society that it came from and the mysogyny that women were property.

2. In mainstream christianity (since I don't know about Islam and Judaism) jesus is god. Now I've seen spirits. Every spirit I've seen and experienced was once a human. So, this makes more sense that jesus is a spirit. Since god has no physical attributes, he can't be nor represent god. I heard all the arguments before. It just leaves me thinking: If jesus is god, the father, then who is his father? If jesus and god are separate (one human and one being) and they are both god, then what defines god since he is would either be a spirit with no physical representation of him or a human in and of itself?

mind is the creator, brahman is the creator.

Mind is the Creator

3. God is said to be consciousness. Do you guys mean the mind? Is god part of your mind and "he's" creating your thoughts and emotions? Neurons moving through parts of your brain does that. Thoughts are collective thoughts picked up by your brain like 0011s to a computer and translated into thoughts that are only restated in the brain. Nothing new from inside out. We just can't label it. So, if god is consciousness, wouldn't everyone acknowledge consciousness and given they have a mind and thoughts, wouldn't everyone already interpret their thoughts as greater then themselves? Is this type of god selective or is this type of god an emotion or something you can't define?

IMO our bodies are like radio transceivers because electricity is a basic form of all nature.

4. God is said to be everywhere and everything. Pantheism. Energy is everywhere and in everything. Energy (heat and all of that) creates and sustains life. So, taking spiritual terminology out, is god energy? I can't think of another term to use if it isn't energy because no other term to me captures the fact of how life begins, lives, and dies. I know it sounds like a cold way to describe god, but is god in pantheism an elegant way of saying god is energy?

again electricity is a basic part of nature and consciousness is electrical impulses.

5. God is said to be object(s) and people(s) for that matter of worship. What's the real purpose of worship? Of course even us atheist are grateful to others, our environment, and ourselves. It has nothing to do with our religions since everyone can experience the same thing regardless their religion or lack thereof. What is the reason of holding things "sacred"? I mean, you can still live life in gratitude et cetera without singling out an aspect of reality rather than considering all reality and everything and everyone sacred.

“One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.” Albert Einstein

6. Last, god is said to be a mystical experience. Something greater (or undefined). Maybe defined my mythology, who knows. For another thread, perhaps. However, mystical experiences cannot happen without our involvement in our environment and people. How we put together pieces of our lives and patterns are not universal. If god is an experience, and everyone has experiences, wouldn't this mystical experience be universal? A fact. Something that is a part of life that all can share in? Why "mystical" though? Of course, some feelings are hard to explain. Why are they special?

Basically, what is a god? (I asked this before but kind of asking it in questions in hopes someone would actually read the thread and think about what I'm asking before replying).

If you can't describe it, then how is it more of a god than my not able to explain an physical and mental experience to my psychologist which may or may not be related to depression or anxiety?

Yes, I've had "mystical" experiences but I don't all them that since I don't like the sacred-concept and putting things and people above or below myself. Last question, once you put something or someone above or below yourself in sacredness, you make whatever it is you worship a god. Do you really need to do this to understand the mystery of life?

Can't experiences be experiences? and why do you guys need a purpose or origin when our purpose and origin are unfolding daily? It's not a big bang. It's not from a creator. It just is.

You can quote scripture but I would love to ask the same things to Moses and Jesus but they aren't alive right now, so basically you're telling me words of Moses and the apostles not jesus and most definitely not god.

Okay. I let this gather dust but if you reply please be polite. I put some people on ignore unfortunately because with all my threads they post something rude and completely irrelevant.

God is Love. Love is the greatest mystery of all. Spooky action at a distance.

thats all mysticism is:


LOVE, i want something just like this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Twilight Hue]

I know many people define atheist differently. Most on RF don't claim "knowledge that god doesn't exist" just lack of belief on a sliding scale.

I am an hardstone, cold, point blank atheist. Always was, always will be. (Maybe gnostic is better? I have knowledge that god doesn't exist... that aside)

1. God of abraham is said to be a being or spirit. How can he be a spirit when he has no body with whom that spirit comes from? (To Muslims, Jews, Christians, and others that don't believe in jesus or that jesus is god)

2. In mainstream christianity (since I don't know about Islam and Judaism) jesus is god. Now I've seen spirits. Every spirit I've seen and experienced was once a human. So, this makes more sense that jesus is a spirit. Since god has no physical attributes, he can't be nor represent god. I heard all the arguments before. It just leaves me thinking: If jesus is god, the father, then who is his father? If jesus and god are separate (one human and one being) and they are both god, then what defines god since he is would either be a spirit with no physical representation of him or a human in and of itself?

3. God is said to be consciousness. Do you guys mean the mind? Is god part of your mind and "he's" creating your thoughts and emotions? Neurons moving through parts of your brain does that. Thoughts are collective thoughts picked up by your brain like 0011s to a computer and translated into thoughts that are only restated in the brain. Nothing new from inside out. We just can't label it. So, if god is consciousness, wouldn't everyone acknowledge consciousness and given they have a mind and thoughts, wouldn't everyone already interpret their thoughts as greater then themselves? Is this type of god selective or is this type of god an emotion or something you can't define?

4. God is said to be everywhere and everything. Pantheism. Energy is everywhere and in everything. Energy (heat and all of that) creates and sustains life. So, taking spiritual terminology out, is god energy? I can't think of another term to use if it isn't energy because no other term to me captures the fact of how life begins, lives, and dies. I know it sounds like a cold way to describe god, but is god in pantheism an elegant way of saying god is energy?

5. God is said to be object(s) and people(s) for that matter of worship. What's the real purpose of worship? Of course even us atheist are grateful to others, our environment, and ourselves. It has nothing to do with our religions since everyone can experience the same thing regardless their religion or lack thereof. What is the reason of holding things "sacred"? I mean, you can still live life in gratitude et cetera without singling out an aspect of reality rather than considering all reality and everything and everyone sacred.

6. Last, god is said to be a mystical experience. Something greater (or undefined). Maybe defined my mythology, who knows. For another thread, perhaps. However, mystical experiences cannot happen without our involvement in our environment and people. How we put together pieces of our lives and patterns are not universal. If god is an experience, and everyone has experiences, wouldn't this mystical experience be universal? A fact. Something that is a part of life that all can share in? Why "mystical" though? Of course, some feelings are hard to explain. Why are they special?

Basically, what is a god? (I asked this before but kind of asking it in questions in hopes someone would actually read the thread and think about what I'm asking before replying).

If you can't describe it, then how is it more of a god than my not able to explain an physical and mental experience to my psychologist which may or may not be related to depression or anxiety?

Yes, I've had "mystical" experiences but I don't all them that since I don't like the sacred-concept and putting things and people above or below myself. Last question, once you put something or someone above or below yourself in sacredness, you make whatever it is you worship a god. Do you really need to do this to understand the mystery of life?

Can't experiences be experiences? and why do you guys need a purpose or origin when our purpose and origin are unfolding daily? It's not a big bang. It's not from a creator. It just is.

You can quote scripture but I would love to ask the same things to Moses and Jesus but they aren't alive right now, so basically you're telling me words of Moses and the apostles not jesus and most definitely not god.

Okay. I let this gather dust but if you reply please be polite. I put some people on ignore unfortunately because with all my threads they post something rude and completely irrelevant.

I'm fairly sure you have heard of the terms, "Mind over matter, matter over mind".

I think, whenever one takes in the context the properties of mind and matter, and examine how it produces various effects, you can then understand better the outcomes by which people arrive at things. Some more or less outlandish than the last.

I think this serves as a fairly useful and practable template that can help explain various outcomes that we see from ourselves and others, by just noticing how mental and tactile functions produce the many results that are based upon those interactions, and the results forthwith.

It helps brings about a clearer picture I think as to answering the how's and why's so many varied views and opinions manifest and are expressed, along with your own personal view and take on things that get brought into the mix that can help answer the questions that come from it all.

 

[Thief]

I know many people define atheist differently. Most on RF don't claim "knowledge that god doesn't exist" just lack of belief on a sliding scale.

I am an hardstone, cold, point blank atheist. Always was, always will be. (Maybe gnostic is better? I have knowledge that god doesn't exist... that aside)

1. God of abraham is said to be a being or spirit. How can he be a spirit when he has no body with whom that spirit comes from? (To Muslims, Jews, Christians, and others that don't believe in jesus or that jesus is god)

2. In mainstream christianity (since I don't know about Islam and Judaism) jesus is god. Now I've seen spirits. Every spirit I've seen and experienced was once a human. So, this makes more sense that jesus is a spirit. Since god has no physical attributes, he can't be nor represent god. I heard all the arguments before. It just leaves me thinking: If jesus is god, the father, then who is his father? If jesus and god are separate (one human and one being) and they are both god, then what defines god since he is would either be a spirit with no physical representation of him or a human in and of itself?

3. God is said to be consciousness. Do you guys mean the mind? Is god part of your mind and "he's" creating your thoughts and emotions? Neurons moving through parts of your brain does that. Thoughts are collective thoughts picked up by your brain like 0011s to a computer and translated into thoughts that are only restated in the brain. Nothing new from inside out. We just can't label it. So, if god is consciousness, wouldn't everyone acknowledge consciousness and given they have a mind and thoughts, wouldn't everyone already interpret their thoughts as greater then themselves? Is this type of god selective or is this type of god an emotion or something you can't define?

4. God is said to be everywhere and everything. Pantheism. Energy is everywhere and in everything. Energy (heat and all of that) creates and sustains life. So, taking spiritual terminology out, is god energy? I can't think of another term to use if it isn't energy because no other term to me captures the fact of how life begins, lives, and dies. I know it sounds like a cold way to describe god, but is god in pantheism an elegant way of saying god is energy?

5. God is said to be object(s) and people(s) for that matter of worship. What's the real purpose of worship? Of course even us atheist are grateful to others, our environment, and ourselves. It has nothing to do with our religions since everyone can experience the same thing regardless their religion or lack thereof. What is the reason of holding things "sacred"? I mean, you can still live life in gratitude et cetera without singling out an aspect of reality rather than considering all reality and everything and everyone sacred.

6. Last, god is said to be a mystical experience. Something greater (or undefined). Maybe defined my mythology, who knows. For another thread, perhaps. However, mystical experiences cannot happen without our involvement in our environment and people. How we put together pieces of our lives and patterns are not universal. If god is an experience, and everyone has experiences, wouldn't this mystical experience be universal? A fact. Something that is a part of life that all can share in? Why "mystical" though? Of course, some feelings are hard to explain. Why are they special?

Basically, what is a god? (I asked this before but kind of asking it in questions in hopes someone would actually read the thread and think about what I'm asking before replying).

If you can't describe it, then how is it more of a god than my not able to explain an physical and mental experience to my psychologist which may or may not be related to depression or anxiety?

Yes, I've had "mystical" experiences but I don't all them that since I don't like the sacred-concept and putting things and people above or below myself. Last question, once you put something or someone above or below yourself in sacredness, you make whatever it is you worship a god. Do you really need to do this to understand the mystery of life?

Can't experiences be experiences? and why do you guys need a purpose or origin when our purpose and origin are unfolding daily? It's not a big bang. It's not from a creator. It just is.

You can quote scripture but I would love to ask the same things to Moses and Jesus but they aren't alive right now, so basically you're telling me words of Moses and the apostles not jesus and most definitely not god.

Okay. I let this gather dust but if you reply please be polite. I put some people on ignore unfortunately because with all my threads they post something rude and completely irrelevant.

and dust you will be

my description of God is Almighty
which should be self explanatory

your denial appears hard fast

so....there would be no point in allowing your spirit any continuance

hoping for your sake you do not follow your body into the ground
eternal darkness is physically real

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Hmm.

I recently got a stronger definition of atheist from academia and that is an atheist is one who disavows the existence of God.

I think the term you're looking for is anti-theist. Someone who is against god. I wasn't raised religious nor did my parents teach me about any faith. I wasn't in a christian area like I am here so I had no direct influence from christians and any other religion for that matter to consider god, buddha, or any religion at all. I would have never tried to conform to christianity (the foundations) if I didn't move here.

It is sad that many people disavow god. Many do because of the people rather than the actual lack of belief. A lot of which on RF I feel people are conflicted in faith and that's why they ask questions. Those I think two actual atheists who knows nor experience god's existence I don't see interact on the boards much. They literally said they know on RF unlike others who are on a sliding scale of knowledge and belief.

Fortunately, I have read the bible but I like to have someone's personal opinion. It would be nice to interview Moses, Jesus, and the Apostles but I can't. That, and I believe people in the bible and wrote the bible wrote scripture from their inspiration they received from god not god writing through them.

Hmm. I never heard a christian actually say god is anthropomorphic. I always hear it from non-christians but never got that impression when I practiced. Maybe it's a doctrinal thing?

It's confusing how a spirit can exist without once being human. We experience a lot of spiritual things, well a lot of us do, but I don't attribute them to a being unless it's a family member or related to my ancestry historical, blood, or land. Outside of that, beyond experiencing the spirit of jesus, I have no other foundation to describe god apart from the attributes the bible (and other sacred books) give him. That's like defining me by my personality but never saying what a human being actually is without regard to personality and characteristics that shape it.

 

[Brickjectivity]

To me it does not matter if you dislike the word "God" and prefer to use words like "Truth", "Joy" and "Love". It's all the same to me no matter what label you pin on it. And sometimes labels can be a barrier.

I personally am attracted to songs with lyrics like this that speak of "Godliness" but that's me:

Life is a joy for all to share,
So Leave your prison house of self
And walk a world that you’ve never known.
Love will open its hidden realms
And show you the face of the true self you are,
Son of the cosmos, daughter of stars.
Godliness is yours when love is what you are.

Leave it to sunrise123 to cut through all the complicated paperwork and get down to writing the check!

 

[james bond]

Hmm.



I think the term you're looking for is anti-theist. Someone who is against god. I wasn't raised religious nor did my parents teach me about any faith. I wasn't in a christian area like I am here so I had no direct influence from christians and any other religion for that matter to consider god, buddha, or any religion at all. I would have never tried to conform to christianity (the foundations) if I didn't move here.

It is sad that many people disavow god. Many do because of the people rather than the actual lack of belief. A lot of which on RF I feel people are conflicted in faith and that's why they ask questions. Those I think two actual atheists who knows nor experience god's existence I don't see interact on the boards much. They literally said they know on RF unlike others who are on a sliding scale of knowledge and belief.

Fortunately, I have read the bible but I like to have someone's personal opinion. It would be nice to interview Moses, Jesus, and the Apostles but I can't. That, and I believe people in the bible and wrote the bible wrote scripture from their inspiration they received from god not god writing through them.

Hmm. I never heard a christian actually say god is anthropomorphic. I always hear it from non-christians but never got that impression when I practiced. Maybe it's a doctrinal thing?

It's confusing how a spirit can exist without once being human. We experience a lot of spiritual things, well a lot of us do, but I don't attribute them to a being unless it's a family member or related to my ancestry historical, blood, or land. Outside of that, beyond experiencing the spirit of jesus, I have no other foundation to describe god apart from the attributes the bible (and other sacred books) give him. That's like defining me by my personality but never saying what a human being actually is without regard to personality and characteristics that shape it.

Anthropomorphic descriptions are in Scripture as well as God being invisible. Jacob even wrestles with God. I learned it here:
What is an anthropomorphism?

What about your mystical experiences? Were they with human spirits since you do not believe in the existence of God? We're not talking about ghosts as they do not exist (human supernatural). Once someone dies, what happens to the spirit from a spiritualist pov? What I was getting at by bringing up anthropomorphism was. are the still of human form or do they still keep some traits? Even a voice, I would say is human since we can have different languages. I would think it would be recognizable if it's someone you know. By mystic, I'm assuming it's different from intuition, your conscience or hearing the little voice in your head to not do something or having some great idea.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Anthropomorphic descriptions are in Scripture as well as God being invisible. Jacob even wrestles with God. I learned it here:

Interesting. I haven't really fully understood nor seriously questioned how a spirit who was not once a human can have human characteristics. Then, some tell me that he already has characteristics and we took from him rather than the other way around.

What about your mystical experiences? Were they with human spirits since you do not believe in the existence of God? We're not talking about ghosts as they do not exist (human supernatural). Once someone dies, what happens to the spirit from a spiritualist pov? What I was getting at by bringing up anthropomorphism was. are the still of human form or do they still keep some traits?

Thank you for asking.

Yes. We believe that spirits were once humans (souls of the deceased) with whom after death still are present on earth to take care of us in prayer, communion, and so forth. The spirit I saw is what I read is a "restless spirit". My family never called it anything, though. He had the appearance of a middle age man and always walked from our bedroom to the restroom and back. We believe that spirits or the deceased stay on the property where they died. I was told the house was built on cemetery property. I don't know how true that is but the area we lived has a lot of "dead" there.

As for spiritualism itself, I plan to go to their church sunday. They do believe in "an intelligence" but what we do have in common and it's a strong part of their faith is the communication with loved ones and the deceased in general. It's the minimal definition of a spiritualist. The practice of being a medium and communicating with the spirits.

From my experience, yes, they have "human" traits. I never thought about that until now, actually (weird connection) Loved ones still love their family members and when in prayer you connect by learning about them more and basically talking and conversing. In some ways you can say that the experience of a spirit or soul of the disease is how what you do mirrors a lot of traits they have and passed on to their future generations.

When I think of anthropomorphism, I think science fiction. God having a body like casper or so have you and he's moving around actually loving people and talking with folks. I had someone yell in my ear "NO" once years ago. It was a warning and saved me from danger. Can't remember what. Another incident was in 2014 when my grandmother saved me from getting hit by a car. So instead of an "mystical" experience, you actually hear the voice NO and actually feel pressure and a hand push you back. So, it's not attribution. It's spirits actually interacting with you. The more I learn about other religious views, the more new age it sounds. I never got that impression from spirit-uality, really.

Even a voice, I would say is human since we can have different languages. I would think it would be recognizable if it's someone you know. By mystic, I'm assuming it's different from intuition, your conscience or hearing the little voice in your head to not do something or having some great idea.

I've never thought of actually the voice being in English rather than just any other language. Since No isn't a universal phrase, it could be from someone I know. It happened so long ago, I honestly couldn't tell you more other than it scaring the, cough, mess out of me.

Without the human christ, I honestly can't figure how god can exist from a Jewish, Muslim, Bahai etc perspective. Not that in the perspective that jesus is god, but that he is an actual physical attribute people assigned to god. Outside of that, I have no leg to stand on but the testimony and stories of abrahamic scriptures.

 

[Diak (Jack) Anosh]

I have knowledge that god doesn't exist.

Hard to say you don't know God exists; harder to say you do know God does not exist.

That kinda goes along with my own observation that you cannot prove your great, great grandparents existed, apart from testimony of your parents and grandparents. At least that's normal for most people. They take other people's word for it, up to and including Historians, who reportedly are telling us of things that happened centuries ago, from testimonies of witnesses alleged to be from that time.

Kinda like the scriptures.

1. God of abraham is said to be a being or spirit. How can he be a spirit when he has no body with whom that spirit comes from? (To Muslims, Jews, Christians, and others that don't believe in jesus or that jesus is god)

Doesn't that assume a Spirit requires a body for its existence? According to scripture, God breathed into Adam's nostrils, the breath of life, and Adam became a living soul.

When Adam died, the Spirit left the body to return to god who gave it, and the body returned to the dust of the earth, whence it came.

Upon resurrection, Spirit reunites with body and Man becomes an eternal soul.

2. In mainstream christianity (since I don't know about Islam and Judaism) jesus is god.

That's not "Mainstream Christianity, that's "ORTHODOX DOCTRINE."

Orthodoxy took off from truth centuries ago to create from non-scriptural sources, the doctrine and "Theology" of Trinitarianism.

Mainstream Christianity (and there are a lot of us) still accept what scripture has to say about things.

And it is scripture by which God tells us of Himself, and of Man, and of things eternal.

And it is in the scriptures we learn there was never a triune God of Israel.

I cannot say there was never a triune God because many of the Gods were presented as triune beings, which is where the ORTHODOX POSITION got its beginning.

But Jehovah, God of Israel, was not one of them. He is in fact, the "Only True God" if we can learn to trust Jesus of Nazareth's testimony.

Look at what else Jesus said that contradicts "ORTHODOXY'S POSITION:
"Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me (MONON) alone: and yet I am not (MONOS) alone, because the Father is with me. (John 16:32) That little word "Alone" is translated from the Greek "MONOS" which is an adjective, while MONON is the Adverb equivalent, both meaning the same things, adverb "only" - Adjective "alone" -

When the Father and the Son are separated, they are both and each, monon = only= Adverb equivalent to adjective monos = alone = adjective equivalent to adverb monon.

Jehovah had already established His exclusive right to claim deity -
KJV 2 Kings 19:19 Now therefore, O LORD our God, I beseech thee, save thou us out of his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that thou art the LORD God, even thou (MONOS) only.

LXE 2 Kings 19:19 And now, O Lord our God, deliver us out of his hand, and all the kingdoms of the earth shall know that thou (MONOS) alone art the Lord God.

Jehovah God has already told us in Isaiah, that He, The Father, created heaven and earth monos.

[Isa 37:16,20]
Isaiah 37:16 O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou monos (alone), of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou hast made heaven and earth.

Isaiah 37:20 Now therefore, O LORD our God, save us from his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that thou art the LORD, even thou monos (only).

Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens monos (alone); that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Nehemiah 9:6 Thou, even thou, art LORD monos (alone); thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.

NEH 9:6
THOU.......su (singular)
ART........ei (singular)
LORD.....kurios -(HEBREW JEHOVAH)(singular)
ALONE...monos (singular)

Psalm 86:10 thou art God monos (alone).
THOU......su (singular)
ART........ei (singular)
THE........o` (singular)
GOD.......Theos (singular)
ALONE...monos (singular)

It means Jesus was not there creating with him. If he was, where was he? He was not with, beside [Isa 44:6]; before, after [Isa 43:10]; or "other" [Isa 44:8].

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

In Gen 17:1 God introduced Himself to Abraham thusly:
EGW = first-person-singular pronoun ="I"
EIMI = first-person-singular present active verb ="am"
O' = singular definite article = "the"
THEOS = Nominative masculine singular noun = "God"

LAW
a)Gen 17:1 EGW EIMI O' THEOS
b)Gen 26:24 EGW EIMI O' THEOS
c)Gen 31:13 EGW EIMI O' THEOS
d)Gen 46:3 EGW EIMI O' THEOS
e)Exo 3:6 EGW EIMI O' THEOS

PSALMS
f)Psa 45:11 EGW EIMI O' THEOS

PROPHETS
g)Isa 45:22 8)Isa 46:9 9)Isa 48:17 EGW EIMI O' THEOS

NEW COVENANT
h)Mat 22:32 EGW EIMI O' THEOS

God introduced himself to Moses as a first-person-singular "being;" i.e., there is only one person in the "person-singular" being.

In Exo 3:14 God introduced himself to Moses using singular pronoun, singular verb, singular definite article and singular verb participle.
EGW EIMI O' WN = "I AM THE BEING."

EGW = first-person-singular pronoun ="I"
EIMI = first-person-singular present active verb ="am"
O' = singular definite article = "the"
WN = Singular participle = "Being"

"Singular" participle means there is only one person in "The Being."

Again, the number of "Persons" in God is a matter of Grammatical Principle, not comparison definition. No one has to prove God is a person, and no one has to prove God is not three persons, because the grammatic principle deals with precisely that issue. THERE IS NO TRINITY-GOD OF ISRAEL.

That should be enough to burden you till you ask for the next chapter.

 

[YmirGF]

Sounds like gnostic atheism.

In other words you assert that there are no deities.

I am an agnostic atheist.

In other words I assert it is unlikely that there are any deities.

I do not think we can categorically rule out the deistic notion of deity for example.

A gnostic atheist is just an agnostic atheist with more mileage.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Please please do not quote scripture. I've read the bible and if you are a child of christ, I will take your word for it.

That kinda goes along with my own observation that you cannot prove your great, great grandparents existed, apart from testimony of your parents and grandparents. At least that's normal for most people. They take other people's word for it, up to and including Historians, who reportedly are telling us of things that happened centuries ago, from testimonies of witnesses alleged to be from that time.

That's a weird comparison. My great great grandparents existed because I exist. They were human. I am human. God is a spirit being of some sort. You are not. I can't see the connection. My family are all made up of blood and so forth. God is not. So, ...

Doesn't that assume a Spirit requires a body for its existence? According to scripture, God breathed into Adam's nostrils, the breath of life, and Adam became a living soul.

Yes. Without scripture or any sacred text, in life yes, for a spirit to exist it would have to be part of the body somehow. Without the body (any person and any living plant or animal), what is the spirit of?

The OP isn't specific to christianity. People say that god is the "breathe of life." Energy and oxygen is the "breathe of life." Just I choose to see it more important or sacred than just energy and oxygen etc. No supernatural component. Spirits are a part of like just like we are.

When Adam died, the Spirit left the body to return to god who gave it, and the body returned to the dust of the earth, whence it came.

Upon resurrection, Spirit reunites with body and Man becomes an eternal soul.

If you like. It's a belief not a fact.

That's not "Mainstream Christianity, that's "ORTHODOX DOCTRINE."

Orthodox christianity does not believe jesus is god. Jesus never claimed he was. Catholicism made that claim. Christianity is built up on the divinity of christ. However you define that divinity is up to the christian. Unfortunately, no one christian has a universal christian definition of christ's divinity. So it's hard to say what is mainstream if going by whats written just what the Church believed in since all other denominations came from the Church.

Orthodoxy took off from truth centuries ago to create from non-scriptural sources, the doctrine and "Theology" of Trinitarianism.

Judaism is the truth in abrahamic view. Christianity morphed that throughout Church history. I don't agree with trinitian view. Spirit can't come from god. That's redundant. Christ can't be god. Christ is a human. and so forth..

But I honestly don't know your point. All the scripture you posted would be best suited for scriptural debates and people who believe what you do. For me and many non-believers, unless you're talking about scholarship, history, or so have you, it doesn't mean much but supporting your statement.

In other words, we need a common foundation of truth for both parties if there is a formal debate or conversation. At least that, or just keep it short and explain what you mean instead.

 

[james bond]

Interesting. I haven't really fully understood nor seriously questioned how a spirit who was not once a human can have human characteristics. Then, some tell me that he already has characteristics and we took from him rather than the other way around.



Thank you for asking.

Yes. We believe that spirits were once humans (souls of the deceased) with whom after death still are present on earth to take care of us in prayer, communion, and so forth. The spirit I saw is what I read is a "restless spirit". My family never called it anything, though. He had the appearance of a middle age man and always walked from our bedroom to the restroom and back. We believe that spirits or the deceased stay on the property where they died. I was told the house was built on cemetery property. I don't know how true that is but the area we lived has a lot of "dead" there.

As for spiritualism itself, I plan to go to their church sunday. They do believe in "an intelligence" but what we do have in common and it's a strong part of their faith is the communication with loved ones and the deceased in general. It's the minimal definition of a spiritualist. The practice of being a medium and communicating with the spirits.

From my experience, yes, they have "human" traits. I never thought about that until now, actually (weird connection) Loved ones still love their family members and when in prayer you connect by learning about them more and basically talking and conversing. In some ways you can say that the experience of a spirit or soul of the disease is how what you do mirrors a lot of traits they have and passed on to their future generations.

When I think of anthropomorphism, I think science fiction. God having a body like casper or so have you and he's moving around actually loving people and talking with folks. I had someone yell in my ear "NO" once years ago. It was a warning and saved me from danger. Can't remember what. Another incident was in 2014 when my grandmother saved me from getting hit by a car. So instead of an "mystical" experience, you actually hear the voice NO and actually feel pressure and a hand push you back. So, it's not attribution. It's spirits actually interacting with you. The more I learn about other religious views, the more new age it sounds. I never got that impression from spirit-uality, really.



I've never thought of actually the voice being in English rather than just any other language. Since No isn't a universal phrase, it could be from someone I know. It happened so long ago, I honestly couldn't tell you more other than it scaring the, cough, mess out of me.

Without the human christ, I honestly can't figure how god can exist from a Jewish, Muslim, Bahai etc perspective. Not that in the perspective that jesus is god, but that he is an actual physical attribute people assigned to god. Outside of that, I have no leg to stand on but the testimony and stories of abrahamic scriptures.

My post was to get away from discussing your interpretation of Christians believing in a spirit. I was interested more in what you thought was spiritual. I just found out that believing in God as spirit means two separate things as described in the Bible. Some Christians believe God only talked to Adam and there is disagreement as if he actually appeared. In most illustrations, God does appear. However, in some, he is depicted as invisible. For example, the famous Michaelangelo Book of Genesis depictions on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel shows a God touching Adam. He is in the clouds so I assume he is spirit, but is illustrated as a fatherly figure. The Bible also describes parts of human anatomy such as God's face, his hands or feet is several places during his interactions with people in the Bible. All of this is explained as God is both spirit (actually states invisible) and anthropomorphic. I think just the fact that he speaks means he's human. For example, Adam receives instructions from God, but wouldn't understand if it was a bark or odd sound. He could understand if it was telepathic, but it's not described as such. Thus, the conclusion is he can represented as human even though he may be visible only to the person(s) he wishes to appear to.

Isn't it true of seances or any encounter with a spirit such as the one you had? The person hears a voice or maybe sees a vision. I don't think a woman would hear her husband's voice as female. It would have to sound like her husband. Same for the other witnesses or else they would have a hard time believing. Thus, I would think any sighting or hearing would imply the spirit has human qualities unless it's some other type of animal.

The closest experience I had with a spirit was my girl friend, her sister and another friend stayed at a remote house in the forest where her grandmother lived one weekend. It was remote. We drove about 1/2-hour from the nearest town and inhabitants. She lived by herself since her husband passed on, and had a shotgun she knew how to use. I woke up to get some water and while walking through the dining room, I felt cold and could sense a presence. My gf came behind me a bit later and we were in the same room. After I got my water and she went to the bathroom, we talked about what we experienced. She said she felt another presence in the room and felt cold, too. We could have both imagined it or talked ourselves into this, as both she and her sister heard stories of the house being haunted by the spirit of the grandfather. The stories were in jest, but ones we told each other often before the visit. They were different occurrences at the house and not the same one. My memory is fuzzy now, but some may be of someone seeing an apparition, heard a weird sound or experienced something. A few may be that seeing an old man, i.e. the grandfather. Thus, now that I learned about it, the anthropomorphic piece was missing in my experience. It could be we just scared ourselves into it.

 

[Diak (Jack) Anosh]

Please please do not quote scripture. I've read the bible and if you are a child of christ, I will take your word for it.


That's a weird comparison. My great great grandparents existed because I exist. They were human. I am human. God is a spirit being of some sort. You are not. I can't see the connection. My family are all made up of blood and so forth. God is not. So, ...

So, who did Cain and Able smile sweetly and raise their arms to be picked up by "Great Grampa or Great Granma?

Yes. Without scripture or any sacred text, in life yes, for a spirit to exist it would have to be part of the body somehow. Without the body (any person and any living plant or animal), what is the spirit of?

And where did you get THAT conclusion from? Certainly not from what a "Spirit" told you.

The OP isn't specific to christianity. People say that god is the "breathe of life." Energy and oxygen is the "breathe of life." Just I choose to see it more important or sacred than just energy and oxygen etc. No supernatural component. Spirits are a part of like just like we are.

I know of no scripture that says God is the breath of life. The closest I know of to that is - "The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life."(Job 33:4)

The "breath of the almighty" is not consistent with "The breath, the almighty."

QUOTE="Carlita, post: 5168668, member: 55631"] If you like. It's a belief not a fact.

I thought you said you read the scriptures. Then you would know it is a scriptural fact. "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."(Ecc 12:7)

QUOTE="Carlita, post: 5168668, member: 55631"]Orthodox christianity does not believe jesus is god.[/quote]

In the sixth century, one who called himself the pope, declared the deity of Jesus to be equal with God, and declared that "belief" to be "ORTHODOXY."

THAT is when "ORTHODOXY" became an entirely different proposition. Because no one living at the time had the courage nor the backing to counter His statement with truth.

QUOTE="Carlita, post: 5168668, member: 55631"]Jesus never claimed he was. Catholicism made that claim. Christianity is built up on the divinity of christ. However you define that divinity is up to the christian. Unfortunately, no one christian has a universal christian definition of christ's divinity. So it's hard to say what is mainstream if going by whats written just what the Church believed in since all other denominations came from the Church.[/quote]

Actually they FELL from Christianity.
To say something "Comes from" may be mistaken to mean it "improved to believe" or "Grew to understand..." both of which are in error.

QUOTE="Carlita, post: 5168668, member: 55631"]Judaism is the truth in abrahamic view. Christianity morphed that throughout Church history. I don't agree with trinitian view. [/quote]

Judaism is the truth given by God to Abraham, and to Moses through the Covenant of law. Christianity is the result of that prophecy, when God in fact DID give them a new covenant.
"And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of fleshEzekiel 11:19)

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was a husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.(Jeremiah 31:31-33)

QUOTE="Carlita, post: 5168668, member: 55631"]Spirit can't come from god. That's redundant.[/quote]

Nope: That's SCRIPTURE:
"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."(Ecc 12:7)

QUOTE="Carlita, post: 5168668, member: 55631"] Christ can't be god. Christ is a human. and so forth..
[/quote]

With THAT I am in agreement. Because "Christ" MEANS Anointed of God. God anoints MEN he does not anoint Gods, in fact He denies all Gods other than Himself.

 

[Diak (Jack) Anosh]

My great great grandparents existed because I exist.

Now THAT'S WEIRD. Truth is, YOU exist because your progenitors preexisted you; And because God created our primary progenitors.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Now THAT'S WEIRD. Truth is, YOU exist because your progenitors preexisted you; And because God created our primary progenitors.

Take god out, yes. Sorry, it's the other way around. I exist because of my parents and so forth on back. I don't know who came first; and, I really have no reason to know. But, I can't figure out how god figures into it, though.