Would there still be wars and great historical empires if the first human ancestors did not sin?

[Political Commentator]

Genesis 3:6 - So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate.

Genesis 3:7 - Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings.

Romans 5:12 - Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned —

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So do you think that there would still be military conflict and great historical empires if the First Human Ancestors did not sin in the Garden of Eden?

Would there still be any need for great military commanders - e.g. such as Alexander, Hannibal, Caesar, Marlborough, Wellington and Napoleon etc. - if Adam and Eve did not sin in the first place?

 

[rusra02]

Genesis 3:6 - So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate.

Genesis 3:7 - Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings.

Romans 5:12 - Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned —

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So do you think that there would still be military conflict and great historical empires if the First Human Ancestors did not sin in the Garden of Eden?

Would there still be any need for great military commanders - e.g. such as Alexander, Hannibal, Caesar, Marlborough, Wellington and Napoleon etc. - if Adam and Eve did not sin in the first place?

No. Instead, Adam and Eve would still be enjoying perfect life, along with countless descendants sharing in making the earth a global paradise. The military leaders you mentioned, and many others, have succeeded only in bringing misery and death to millions; in fact, scores of millions.

 

[Political Commentator]

The military leaders you mentioned, and many others, have succeeded only in bringing misery and death to millions; in fact, scores of millions.

Granted that this is true, why do we still admire people such as Caesar and Napoleon etc?

If God never intended such military conflict to arise does it imply that one's admiration cannot be a result of the original divine nature given to us by God; but instead, do you suppose that such admiration is a sign of humanity's fallen nature, and a result of the fallen lineage created by the Sin of Adam and Eve?

 

[rusra02]

Granted that this is true, why do we still admire people such as Caesar and Napoleon etc?

If God never intended such military conflict to arise does it imply that one's admiration cannot be a result of the original divine nature given to us by God; but instead, do you suppose that such admiration is a sign of humanity's fallen nature, and a result of the fallen lineage created by the Sin of Adam and Eve?

The latter, IMO. 1 John 3:10-12 explains; "The children of God and the children of the Devil are evident by this fact: Whoever does not practice righteousness does not originate with God, nor does the one who does not love his brother. For this is the message that you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another; not like Cain, who originated with the wicked one and slaughtered his brother." I believe the seemingly endless slaughter is evidence of Satan's influence over mankind. (1 John 5:19)

 

[allison21]

So do you think that there would still be military conflict and great historical empires if the First Human Ancestors did not sin in the Garden of Eden?

No, I believe that there would be a true Heaven on Earth, with all creatures living in harmony. However, I believe that because God knew that Adam and Eve would sin, leading humankind down this more destructive path, he must have created the Earth in spite of, or maybe even because of, that knowledge.
If Adam and Eve hadn't been the first ones to mess up and ruin utopia, then someone else down the line (most likely sooner rather than later) would have - God gave us free will, after all, and us humans are prone to making mistakes.

Granted that this is true, why do we still admire people such as Caesar and Napoleon etc?

If God never intended such military conflict to arise does it imply that one's admiration cannot be a result of the original divine nature given to us by God; but instead, do you suppose that such admiration is a sign of humanity's fallen nature, and a result of the fallen lineage created by the Sin of Adam and Eve?

I think that what people admire about great military 'heroes' is the knowledge and power they possessed, as well as their skills to think strategically in effective ways. Granted, there are probably some who admire these conquerors for their ability to brutally murder many people at a time, but I'd like to think that most admirers keep to the former explanation. For my part, I respect their intelligence, but wish they hadn't used it in such ways.
I'm not sure if it's a coincidence or not, but I noticed that your original list of military heroes doesn't contain many modern names. Perhaps, given time, people are more willing to forget the bad a person did and remember them only for their positive qualities?

 

[Deeje]

No, I believe that there would be a true Heaven on Earth, with all creatures living in harmony. However, I believe that because God knew that Adam and Eve would sin, leading humankind down this more destructive path, he must have created the Earth in spite of, or maybe even because of, that knowledge.
If Adam and Eve hadn't been the first ones to mess up and ruin utopia, then someone else down the line (most likely sooner rather than later) would have - God gave us free will, after all, and us humans are prone to making mistakes.

Without sin, humans are not at all prone to making "mistakes". Adam and his wife did not make a mistake and neither did the 'serpent'. All made deliberate choices by exercising their free will in opposition to their Creator's instructions. If Adam and his wife had remained obedient to the only command there was that carried the death penalty, they would still be alive today with all their children, enjoying the fruits of their labors.

There was no "natural" cause of death in Eden. The "tree of life", which was freely accessible in the beginning, guaranteed everlasting life, right here on earth as long as they remained obedient. (Gen 3:22-24) No human was ever meant to live in heaven.....God already had a huge spiritual family there....humans were made to live on earth as caretakers of this planet and the other creatures who shared life here.

I think that what people admire about great military 'heroes' is the knowledge and power they possessed, as well as their skills to think strategically in effective ways. Granted, there are probably some who admire these conquerors for their ability to brutally murder many people at a time, but I'd like to think that most admirers keep to the former explanation. For my part, I respect their intelligence, but wish they hadn't used it in such ways.

If humans had remained obedient, no military actions would ever have taken place. There would have been nothing to fight over. No divisive religion, no national barriers, no unshared resources, no divorce, no abuse of free will. We would all have respected what God gave to us collectively and shared everything we had as his spiritual children.

I'm not sure if it's a coincidence or not, but I noticed that your original list of military heroes doesn't contain many modern names. Perhaps, given time, people are more willing to forget the bad a person did and remember them only for their positive qualities?

Its a funny thing about "fame" and "infamy"...it depends on which side of the fence one is on......the difference between villain and hero is in the eye of the beholder.

It is how God views a person that matters at the end of the day.

 

[allison21]

Without sin, humans are not at all prone to making "mistakes". Adam and his wife did not make a mistake and neither did the 'serpent'. All made deliberate choices by exercising their free will in opposition to their Creator's instructions. If Adam and his wife had remained obedient to the only command there was that carried the death penalty, they would still be alive today with all their children, enjoying the fruits of their labors.

Sorry, I used the wrong word in my first message - by mistake I meant they screwed up by choosing disobedience, not mistake as in accident - my bad. I agree with you that if not for deliberate sin, the world would still be at peace.

 

[adamberkey]

Genesis 3:6 - So when the woman saw that the tree...

When man was placed in the Garden God gave him the ability to choose, but until man partook of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, man was not accountable for his choices. True agency is man's indepedence from God. God's purpose for us is to develop the attributes of perfection according to the laws that govern mankind. Adam could not pursue that without becomming an agent unti himself, independent to God. As long as Adam remained in the Garden he would been locked in a state of innocence and perfection, not knowing good from evil, not being accountable for his choices. Until Adam partook of the fruit, all things were trapped in the same state of innocence and perfection, and Adam knowing not that he was naked had no desire nor understanding of procreation through reproduction, having never gain any knowledge of it.
Adam was not accountable for his sinsuntil after he partook of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge. Having partaken of the fruit of that tree, god then placed an angel with a flaming sword to block the Tree of Life to prevent Adam of partaking of it while in his fallen state, lest he live forever in his sins that he might commit now that he was fallen man and accountable for his sins as a true independent agent to himself and capable of refusing to observe law.

 

[ronandcarol]

Would there still be wars and great historical empires if the first human ancestors did not sin?
'What if' questions are always fun to think about. It would be nice to think that IF they would have told that serpent to get lost, all would be better to day. After all God did create a perfect, sinless world. BUT, would someone else down the line introduce sin the this world? Would someone else utilize their free-will to do something else to displease God? Yes, what-if questions are fun to imagine.

ronandcarol

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Would there still be wars and great historical empires if the first human ancestors did not sin?
'What if' questions are always fun to think about. It would be nice to think that IF they would have told that serpent to get lost, all would be better to day. After all God did create a perfect, sinless world. BUT, would someone else down the line introduce sin the this world? Would someone else utilize their free-will to do something else to displease God? Yes, what-if questions are fun to imagine.
ronandcarol

All that was needed was one faithful person and there would never be anyone down the line to introduce sin because the 'sin issue' would have already been settled by the one faithful one. In other words, if Adam had Not listened to Eve, then Adam would be forever held up as being faithful, so there would be No need to keep any future rebel around to disturb a beautiful paradisical Earth. Jesus likens the founding of the world of righteous mankind as starting with faithful Abel at Matthew 23:35. So, on that basis Abel will always stand as a shining example, thus No need to think God would ever again need to allow someone to displease Him. The executional words from Jesus' mouth will keep the Earth free from sin and wicked rebellion - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16; Psalms 92:7

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

No. My personal take on the Garden of Eden and the first (human) sin was that the Garden was a higher spiritual plane and we had perfected bodies.The sin was falling out of harmony with God, which plunged us into a lower realm that is more distant from God and where our bodies are prone to aging, illness, injury and death. I think the original state of reality was akin to a merger of Heaven and Earth, such as what will pass at the Eschaton when all things are made anew.

So no, I don't think there would've been any wars, conquests or empires because there would not have been any primordial strife to begin with. We would be experiencing the Beatific Vision and never left it. That's my personal interpretation of it, anyway.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Granted that this is true, why do we still admire people such as Caesar and Napoleon etc?
If God never intended such military conflict to arise does it imply that one's admiration cannot be a result of the original divine nature given to us by God; but instead, do you suppose that such admiration is a sign of humanity's fallen nature, and a result of the fallen lineage created by the Sin of Adam and Eve?

Yes, humanity's fallen nature as mentioned at James 4

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Would there still be wars and great historical empires if the first human ancestors did not sin?
'What if' questions are always fun to think about. It would be nice to think that IF they would have told that serpent to get lost, all would be better to day. After all God did create a perfect, sinless world. BUT, would someone else down the line introduce sin the this world? Would someone else utilize their free-will to do something else to displease God? Yes, what-if questions are fun to imagine.
ronandcarol

To me, if there would have been just one faithful person on Earth, then there would be No need to settle the issue of sovereignty today.
That is why the blame is placed on father Adam at Romans 5:12
If a rebellious person arose there would be No need to keep that person alive because the faith of another could be pointed out.
Since there was No one faithful ( Satan, Adam or Eve ) then that raised the question of who can rule best.
By Adam breaking God's ' do not eat ' Law, then Adam was taking the Law out of God's hands and placing the Law into man's hands.
Thus, Adam set up People Rule as being superior to God's Rule. Only the passing of time would show who can rule best.
Man's history, I believe, has now proven beyond doubt that man can't direct his step - Jeremiah 10:23; Jeremiah 17:9
So, that is why God will soon have Jesus, as Prince of Peace, step in to usher in Peace on Earth among men of goodwill.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Genesis 3:6 - So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate.

Genesis 3:7 - Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings.

Romans 5:12 - Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned —

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So do you think that there would still be military conflict and great historical empires if the First Human Ancestors did not sin in the Garden of Eden?

Would there still be any need for great military commanders - e.g. such as Alexander, Hannibal, Caesar, Marlborough, Wellington and Napoleon etc. - if Adam and Eve did not sin in the first place?

No.

 

[Nadia Faiazova]

If Adam and Eve didn't sin, we would have never heard of the term "war" or "opposition". Why we can say so? God once declared that the thoughts he is thinking toward those who love him- are the thoughts of peace and not of calamity. In accordance to Jeremiah 29:11.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

If Adam and Eve didn't sin, we would have never heard of the term "war" or "opposition". Why we can say so? God once declared that the thoughts he is thinking toward those who love him- are the thoughts of peace and not of calamity. In accordance to Jeremiah 29:11.

Good points ^ above ^ because even if someone after a faithful Adam and Eve would have come along there would be No need to keep that rebel (one who does Not love God) alive to disturb the paradisical edenic peace on earth.