Women should keep silent in the assembly?

[Shakeel]

Or they could both meet the burglar armed and dangerous.

Sure, but I just can't see that man as a gentleman.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Where does it say that?

It is the very nature of all the epistles.

The epistles written by Paul to the various Gentile churches were responses to epistles that they wrote to him.

You think he just wrote random letters to churches he hasn't been to in years without any knowledge or context of what they were doing?

He was answering their questions and addressing their concerns.

The fact that we don't have the original epistles written by the leaders of these churches is one of the reasons the Pauline epistles can be hard to interpret.

It is literally like having the answers but not knowing the questions. It can be confusing.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Why do you assume that your God is intelligent in the first place?

I believe in God but the character of God in the bible is dumber than a stick. People with double digit IQs are smarter.

Again, we are speaking about -> Not to be interrupting at the meeting.

Bull. Can men interrupt? And unless her husband is the clergy, why the hell ask him in the first place? He's just as much a member of the lay people as she is.

Just as Eve was Not Adam's head. Even Christ has a Head over him - 1 Corinthians 3:23 Christ belongs to God.

I'll get my Word of God from God, thanks, and not Paul.

Eve did not rebel, she was deceived.

Plus she wasn't deceived. The serpent was the only honest character in the scene.

I don't think you have to be as smart as God. Surely we can understand a rule such as this with our own reason and knowledge of the nature of men and women.

I love how we're made in God's image but we can't do what God does. It was what God feared most in Genesis. If we were biologically incapable, then why worry?

“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with painful labor you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.”

The amusing thing is that all the curses God does is ultimately defeated by mere humans.

God: Ok, so Adam -- you gotta WERK.
Adam: LOL. Ok, I'll have my people invent tractors.
God: Ok, so Eve -- you get painful childbearing.
Eve: LOL. Ok, I will have my people invent painkillers.
God: Ok, so humanity -- no buildings over a floor.
Everyone: LOL. That's what steel is for.
God: Well, crap -- no more understanding different languages.
Everyone: LOL. That's what translators are for.

Seems like every time God curses us in Genesis, we just work around it.

Well you're here arguing against the Bible. I bet there are even more things about the Bible you don't accept as well.

Life got much better when I finally realized I had been committing idolatry by giving ink and paper more authority than it warranted.

Everybody wants to rule the world.

Such small thinking. Typical.

Spiritual understanding" is wanting to do God's will - not inflate your own ego.

And yet you're fine telling God whom He can and cannot "hire" to have spiritual understanding. Good luck with that.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

And a man, too. Biology 101

I would like to apologize for my earlier comment. I meant no ill will to men who get pregnant. Trans lives matter. <3

Indeed, I'd LOVE to pop Paul's tiny mind by forcing him to face a trans man or woman? Or a nonbinary person. Can they speak or not?

At any rate, since you like the bible so much, a girl gets pregnant WITHOUT a man but I never see a man get knocked up. And they didn't even have the benefit of genetic fertility treatments and such. There are virgin births all the time nowadays. Y'all need uteruses way more than we need penises. Biology 201.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

To have a wife going to work while the man takes care of the house? Having the wife go grocery shopping while the man cooks?

And so when burglars come the husband hides in the bedroom and the wife goes to the door with a bat or a gun or something and deals with it - protects the husband and his dignity. Agree to that with a straight face and I believe your sincerity in your wish for equality.

I'm the one who owns swords, not any man in my household.

Or they could both meet the burglar armed and dangerous.

Just as long as they aren't these idiots:

They look like Bond parody villains.

 

[Shakeel]

girl gets pregnant WITHOUT a man

Do explain how you can get pregnant without a man.

 

[epronovost]

Do explain how you can get pregnant without a man.

Same-Sex Mice Parents Give Birth to Healthy Brood

Ta-da. Isn't science a pretty crazy thing? We have yet to do it for humans since, much like cloning, there isn't any real need for it and it would cost a lot of money, but its entirely possible to create a human with two women or even just one woman we would just need to try it out.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

And yet you're fine telling God whom He can and cannot "hire" to have spiritual understanding. Good luck with that.

I don't recall saying that anywhere.

Conversely - in the post you quoted me from I said,

"There is nothing wrong with a woman gaining "spiritual understanding" - considering that that is the goal of this whole thing - just as there is nothing wrong with a man gaining a more mothering nature toward his children.

However - no matter how mothering he becomes - he is not the children's mother - and she will always be the ultimate authority over their children.

So - no matter how much "spiritual understanding" a wife has - it is not her duty - and she should be doing what she can to help her husband fulfill that duty - just as he should be helping her fulfill her duties regarding the children."

Take the U.S. President and Vice President - each has their own duties and roles to perform.

It does not matter if the Vice President believes themselves to be more Presidential than the President - they are not the President.

It does not matter if the President believes themselves to be wiser than the Vice President - they cannot cast the tie-breaking vote in the Senate.

One of the husband's primary roles or duties is to be the spiritual leader of the family - the wife cannot take that from him.

She can support him in his role - inspire him to do better if she believes he is not fulfilling his calling - but it is his responsibility.

Just as he should not take children away from his wife and their mother just because he believes that he is better suited to the role than she is.

If he believes she is not fulfilling her calling - he should support her in some way - so she can better fulfill her responsibility.

They need to support each other in whatever way they both agree is best - without usurping the primary roles or duties of the other.

Of course - just like how a President or Vice President can be impeached and removed from office - a husband or wife can be removed from their calling.

But until that happens - they have their primary roles or duties to fulfill - and I believe that divorce should not be an option - exempting cases of abuse and infidelity.

So - I don't believe people should divorce just because they start to irritate one another.

It's kinda like the two impeachments of President Trump - there was no evidence of any crime - they did it just because they didn't like him.

Using impeachment as a political weapon - rather than a legal one.

I don't think divorce should be used as such a weapon.

 

[danieldemol]

Sure, but I just can't see that man as a gentleman.

You can't see a man as a gentleman because his wife is not a chicken?

How strange.

ETA: Keep in mind women are often the first educators of a child, if the mother is a chicken she will not be a positive role model for promoting courage in the children.

In my opinion.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Take the U.S. President and Vice President - each has their own duties and roles to perform.

That's a pretty crappy example. A romantic relationship works nothing like that.
And, by the way, it's happened on many occasions throughout history that the VP has stepped up to assume the role and powers of President, especially on a temporary basis. A few times it's been a bit more permanent than that.

 

[Bird123]

I believe in God but the character of God in the bible is dumber than a stick. People with double digit IQs are smarter.


Bull. Can men interrupt? And unless her husband is the clergy, why the hell ask him in the first place? He's just as much a member of the lay people as she is.


I'll get my Word of God from God, thanks, and not Paul.


Plus she wasn't deceived. The serpent was the only honest character in the scene.


I love how we're made in God's image but we can't do what God does. It was what God feared most in Genesis. If we were biologically incapable, then why worry?


The amusing thing is that all the curses God does is ultimately defeated by mere humans.

God: Ok, so Adam -- you gotta WERK.
Adam: LOL. Ok, I'll have my people invent tractors.
God: Ok, so Eve -- you get painful childbearing.
Eve: LOL. Ok, I will have my people invent painkillers.
God: Ok, so humanity -- no buildings over a floor.
Everyone: LOL. That's what steel is for.
God: Well, crap -- no more understanding different languages.
Everyone: LOL. That's what translators are for.

Seems like every time God curses us in Genesis, we just work around it.


Life got much better when I finally realized I had been committing idolatry by giving ink and paper more authority than it warranted.


Such small thinking. Typical.


And yet you're fine telling God whom He can and cannot "hire" to have spiritual understanding. Good luck with that.

Widen your view. Look in the mirror. Have you attempted to control the actions of another? Never? Tell me what you do instead.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

That's a pretty crappy example. A romantic relationship works nothing like that.

A marriage is not just a romantic relationship though.

Obviously romance and attraction need to be present in a functional marriage - but I believe that isn't even scratching the surface.

I believe that marriage is one of the the greatest tools that God has given to Mankind to help them become perfected Beings.

So - no - it was not a "pretty crappy example" - you just aren't on the same page as I am.

I believe that people thinking that marriage is just a romantic relationship is one of the leading causes of divorce today.

And, by the way, it's happened on many occasions throughout history that the VP has stepped up to assume the role and powers of President, especially on a temporary basis.

The same could be said of marriage.

Sometimes when the husband or wife is temporarily down and out the other spouse has to step up and take on their primary roles.

I mentioned that a few times in my other posts.

A few times it's been a bit more permanent than that.

Sadly the same is true of marriage - either divorce or death.

There are times when it is necessary when the husband or wife has to permanently take on the primary roles of their missing spouse.

That is not the ideal though - which has been the topic of this discussion - the ideal that God has set up.

I know there probably better examples than the USP and VP - but I think it's a "pretty okay example".

 

[Fallen Prophet]

You can't see a man as a gentleman because his wife is not a chicken?

How strange.

ETA: Keep in mind women are often the first educators of a child, if the mother is a chicken she will not be a positive role model for promoting courage in the children.

In my opinion.

Even though I agree that women are the first educators and they should be positive role models - I think he was saying that he couldn't view the man who hid in his bathroom - rather then defending his home and family - as a gentleman.

Not that the man's wife being by his side defending their home was what made him not a gentleman.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Or they could both meet the burglar armed and dangerous.

My wife better not do this - I'd be so distracted by my erection - I'd probably get us both killed.

WOMEN + GUNS = SEXY AS ALL HOLY HELL!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I know there probably better examples than the USP and VP - but I think it's a "pretty okay example".

No, it's not, because their roles are legally defined. A marriage is not. Ideally a marriage is a partnership, not rank and hierarchy.
To me it all seems silly to have "primary roles" that have to go to one or the other. Both should help and be involved with child rearing. Both should contribute to housework. Things should be equal.

That is not the ideal though - which has been the topic of this discussion - the ideal that God has set up.

God also set up a system where it's believed a woman will bleed if she's a virgin. That's not necessarily true, but lots of women were undoubtedly put to death because of this dumb law and practice and belief.
According to what god set up, a husband can sell his kids into slavery, with the sons being set free eventually and the daughters never going free.
What your god thinks is ideal is totally unacceptable and highly immoral.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

My wife better not do this - I'd be so distracted by my erection - I'd probably get us both killed.

WOMEN + GUNS = SEXY AS ALL HOLY HELL!

*gag*
More silliness.

 

[danieldemol]

Even though I agree that women are the first educators and they should be positive role models - I think he was saying that he couldn't view the man who hid in his bathroom - rather then defending his home and family - as a gentleman.

Not that the man's wife being by his side defending their home was what made him not a gentleman.

Let's let him speak for himself.

In my opinion.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Let's let him speak for himself.

In my opinion.

Ironic coming from the guy who put words into the guy's mouth..

But you're right - I should leave it to him to straighten you out.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

No, it's not, because their roles are legally defined. A marriage is not. Ideally a marriage is a partnership, not rank and hierarchy.
To me it all seems silly to have "primary roles" that have to go to one or the other. Both should help and be involved with child rearing. Both should contribute to housework. Things should be equal.

You saying all this proves that you didn't read my previous posts.

I have talked about all of this ad nauseum already.

Your comments would be relevant if you were talking about what I actually said - rather then what you think I have said.

God also set up a system where it's believed a woman will bleed if she's a virgin. That's not necessarily true, but lots of women were undoubtedly put to death because of this dumb law and practice and belief.
According to what god set up, a husband can sell his kids into slavery, with the sons being set free eventually and the daughters never going free.
What your god thinks is ideal is totally unacceptable and highly immoral.

You are referencing the Law of Moses - which is not what we are talking about at all.

The Law of Moses was set up to be a harsh taskmaster - to keep the House of Israel humble.

I am talking about the original - universal - cosmic - design of God.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

*gag*
More silliness.

This is literally the first "silly" thing I have said on this thread.

I have been serious about everything else.