Wolves in sheep's clothings when the light inside is darkness.

[QuestioningMind]

You thinking is wrong... Why do you do evil/sin? Because you choose to do evil.
Satan knew right and wrong...

22.And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:


Like Adam and Eve they were all created with free will so they can choose what they do. Just as you choose what they do.
God does not do evil he is a just God as our laws show us we like justice too. It prevents chaos.
But God created all things good. Satan and the angels who followed chose to do evil.
They knew what was right and wrong. God did not make them do wrong. They chose hence the reason they will be punished.

But mankind did not know till they ate the fruit. Hence one man brought death to all mankind. Christ brings life to all mankind.

Simple when we have the truth to see that God is not responsible for anyone who chooses to sin when they know right from wrong.
Satan lied to Eve and he is responsible for the all and evil.

An all-powerful all-knowing God that exists beyond space and time created Satan with free will. An all-powerful all-knowing God that exists beyond space and time would also know that His Satan creation would choose to bring 'evil' into the world. IF this all-powerful all-knowing God created Satan knowing Satan would bring evil into the world, then God IS responsible for bringing evil into the world. If God is indeed the creator of EVERYTHING then He must take responsibility for the bad and not just take credit for the good.

This all-powerful all-knowing God created A&E KNOWING that his Satan creation would try and deceive them, yet He failed to provide A&E with any concept of what lying and deception is, thus ensuring that they would in fact be deceived. One deceived He blames A&E for exercising their free will, yet He refuses to take any responsibility for failing to properly prepare and educate A&E about dealing with his evil creation Satan. If a parent allows their child to walk to school along, but fails to ever teach them about the possible dangers of strangers trying to lure them into their car, you CAN blame the child for freely choosing to get into the car, but the Majority of the blame would fall upon the parent for failing to properly educate the child about the dangers that existed outside of the home.

 

[Nigel]

What part are humans playing without even realising it?

We play all parts, deliberately. We are God and Satan. You could say God is Satan. The central premise of Christianity is, here is what God wants you to do, if you don't do it you are going to a lake of fire to burn and suffer for ever.....but God loves you. This is about control and self delusion.

 

[Evie]

Th

Christians didn't need any help from their Satan to do terrible things in the name of the bleeding Nazarene. The most dangerous possible person, after all, is someone who's convinced they know the will of their God.[/QUOTT

 

[Evie]

We

It's funny that those who loudly warn of evil disguised as good never consider their own church.

Well said

 

[Evie]

Th

Th[/QUOTEThy. The Will of God is written down in the Bible so that there can be no mistake. Anything anyone tries to say is the will of God can be tested as to it being true or false by seeing if it is in the Bible, God's Written Word. And God would have made sure His Written Word is exactly how He intended. No human hand could cause it, or could have ever caused it to be otherwise.

 

[Evie]

When we debate religions and look through history at the evil done using religion as a screen.
Do we as human beings really recognise the evil taking place before us?
Discuss the religions which mankind have hijacked to use as a defense for doing evil and yet the religion does not teach such evil.

Then look at Satan and how he might be behind all these things in order to destroy as many human lives as
possible.

We expect an anti-Christ we expect many things to happen and all evil, destructive and devastating to many.
God has warned that people perish for lack of knowledge and that is a lack of love of truth.

I understand this is a heavy topic intellectually and religiously. Sometimes we have to test our trains of thought and where we are going regarding those thoughts about religion, mankind and the future. Especially when it comes to God, Man and Satan in religious teachings.


So discuss the history and where you can see these things having happened.

What part are humans playing without even realising it?

What part? Now there's a question worth thinking about. I would like to hear the thoughts of others regarding that question.

 

[Evie]

Y

Good and Evil are subjective, one man's good is another man's evil. You are still caught up in circular reasoning.

You said evil cannot come out of good yet God, all good, DID create Lucifer. And Lucifer desired the seat in Heaven occupied by Christ. Satan had ungodly intent. But Lucifer was 'born into existence from God'. Unless God is both good and evil how can Lucifer's existence be explained.? Does our human limited mind have a 'false conception' of good and evil?

 

[Ingledsva]

Define how Satan as a serpent tempted Eve?
How and why would the disciples say:-
King James Bible
Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

We know from Job that Satan is the tempter and we know that God has the final say over life and death.
Jesus never gave into temptation he used the word of God and the truth against Satan.
Job did not sin by blaming God he knew that though God allowed these things he was not the sender
nor was he the author of the things Satan did. We see in Christ God put an end to those thing the accuser fell
when it came to Christ believers. God and the Angels existed all intelligent and powerful in their own dominion and power.

We have to acknowledge that Satan is a real entity and person but not the same as God.

I don't actually agree with that.

1. It doesn't say Satan tempted Eve. It says Nachash/Serpent did. And we know they were surrounded by followers of Serpent religions.

2. In Tanakh, Tempting/TESTING is Satan's assigned job. If found wanting - he brings you before YHVH to condemn you.

Zec 3:1 And he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him.

Psa 109:6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand. 109:7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin.

Job 1:8 And said YHVH to Satan, do put your regard upon my servant Job for there is none like him on the earth, a man pious and upright, fearing Elohiym and turning from wickedness.

There is no evil autonomous Satan in Tanakh. Christians added that stuff.

3. One would assume in the story, that YHVH would send his Tester Satan to TEST Jesus, - to make sure he was ready, - before he started on his mission.

4. Where does it actually say Satan fell?

*

 

[EtuMalku]

Y

You said evil cannot come out of good

yet God, all good, DID create Lucifer. And Lucifer desired the seat in Heaven occupied by Christ. Satan had ungodly intent. But Lucifer was 'born into existence from God'. Unless God is both good and evil how can Lucifer's existence be explained.? Does our human limited mind have a 'false conception' of good and evil?

Where are you getting this nonsense from?

 

[Evie]

Where are you getting this nonsense from?

Ezekiel 28. 15 God's written Word

 

[Ingledsva]

Which if taken as it was meant when said and written then you would know Christians were thrown out of the synagogues and their families did not want anything to do with them.
It is really easy for those who understand the context Christ is speaking in, and what he is referring to.

Look at Saul/Paul he held the cloaks of those who stoned Stephen, he persecuted the followers of Christ. So you appear unable to read the bible in context doing what many do because they don't actually understand what Christ is saying.

John baptised with water and Christ with the Holy Spirit.
Christ brought the word of God. " My words are Spirit and they are life."
Ephesians tells us that as part of the armour of God we are to take the SWORD which the Spirit gives which is the word of God.

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

The sword Christ is referring to is the Word of God which he brought and which divides us all. Those who are born of the Spirit have been rejected
by family and others for over 2,000 years. The prophets were murdered by the Jews simply because they did not like the truth.
Not many people do like truth and so they perish. We see Christians were tortured and put to death for the truth.
You need to study the truth of the OT and then you can relate to what is being said in the NT.

Mat 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

That sword is specifically a machaira, - a war dirk - a short sword for hand to hand fighting.

He mentions the same swords in other verses.

Luk 22:35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.

Luk 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Luk 22:37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.

Luk 22:38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

Obviously he thinks real swords are needed here.

*

 

[Evie]

In reading Ezekiel 28. Especially verse 15, I ask the question how evil can be brought forth from God. God is ALL goodness or He would not BE God. So how was iniquity found in Lucifer, god's Highest Angel?

 

[Evie]

In reading Ezekiel 28. Especially verse 15, I ask the question how evil can be brought forth from God. God is ALL goodness or He would not BE God. So how was iniquity found in Lucifer, god's Highest Angel?

And more can be seen of God's written Word regarding Lucifer. In Isaiah. 14: 12 -14. And Revelation.20: 10

 

[Evie]

Where are you getting this nonsense from?

 

[Evie]

I replied: Ezekiel 28 : Specifically verse 15. But all is relevant.

 

[Ingledsva]

Where did you get the information from? Nachash also refers to 'shining one' and even fortune telling as part of divination.
What you have not done is shown ANYTHING from the bible the OT to support what would be seen as a poor attempt to bring this thread off course.

We have several threads on this subject - you should read them.

Tanakh does not use Satan in that text even though he is mentioned in other texts. When put to writing, - they knew very well about Satan, - and did NOT use that name in the Genesis text.

We do not see the name Satan with the word serpent, anywhere in Tanakh.

Also we are told in Gen 3 that the Nachash/serpent is part of the earth's animal creation, before Adam and Chavvah. And we are told he is condemned to be a real serpent crawling on his belly for the rest of his life. How exactly is a real serpent your evil Satan idea?

Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the Nachash/serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

Thus obviously not Satan.

*

 

[Evie]

J.

We have several threads on this subject - you should read them.

Tanakh does not use Satan in that text even though he is mentioned in other texts. When put to writing, - they knew very well about Satan, - and did NOT use that name in the Genesis text.

We do not see the name Satan with the word serpent, anywhere in Tanakh.

Also we are told in Gen 3 that the Nachash/serpent is part of the earth's animal creation, before Adam and Chavvah. And we are told he is condemned to be a real serpent crawling on his belly for the rest of his life. How exactly is a real serpent your evil Satan idea?

Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the Nachash/serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

Thus obviously not Satan.

*[/QUOTE. Interesting train of thought. Even though it is not exactly relevant to Wolves in Sheeps clothing, Wolves are those with evil intent hide that evil intent behind ( within) guises of holiness and good intentions',

 

[Evie]

J.

I had never considered the serpent as being a created animal. And serpents still exist. Why would Lucifer assume the guise if a serpent?

 

[Ingledsva]

Ezekiel 28. 15 God's written Word

There is no Lucifer in Tanakh.

And - Those verses are talking about a King of Babylon.

*

 

[Evie]

We have several threads on this subject - you should read them.

Tanakh does not use Satan in that text even though he is mentioned in other texts. When put to writing, - they knew very well about Satan, - and did NOT use that name in the Genesis text.

We do not see the name Satan with the word serpent, anywhere in Tanakh.

Also we are told in Gen 3 that the Nachash/serpent is part of the earth's animal creation, before Adam and Chavvah. And we are told he is condemned to be a real serpent crawling on his belly for the rest of his life. How exactly is a real serpent your evil Satan idea?

Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the Nachash/serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

Thus obviously not Satan.

*

What are the names of the threads? Maybe they can explain how the evil ( iniquity) in Lucifer came to exist, when Lucifer was created, born into existence, from an ALL GOOD perfect Being. GOD?