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Witches and witchcraft

SugarOcean

¡pɹᴉǝM ʎɐʇS
What does the bible and it's followers have against Witches and Witchcraft,I'm looking for real and real convincing reasons?
Well, it began with King James as the scriptures against Witchcraft would come into print.This is a very brief synopsis so as to answer your pointed question. You can learn more at this site:
Story Behind King James Bible

James commissioned what we know today as the King James Bible. The process that began so as to print the Bible began in 1604. The Bible was printed in 1611 and under James authority thanks to Johannes Gutenberg's invention of the printing press in 1451 .

James arranged for the converted passage in the transcript of Exodus 22:18 that originally read, thou shalt not suffer a poisoner to live, to read as, thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
This was because James blamed a coven of witches for the sinking of one of his ships. He also believed a coven was conspiring through magic to remove him from the throne. Condemning witches by "God's word", gave power to the throne, at a time when there was no separation of church and state, to root out his problem with witches.
King Solomon employed magic in his time. He also had multiple wives and many concubines. And Solomon remains as one of the wisest men of all time, in the eyes of the Christian faith. This makes for a conflict in matters of Witchcraft being condemned by God while one of the wisest Hebrews to ever live, according to Hebrew tradition and scripture, employed their power while on the throne.


edited to remove double word use
 
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Diamond

Member
Well, it began with King James as the scriptures against Witchcraft would come into print.This is a very brief synopsis so as to answer your pointed question. You can learn more at this site:
Story Behind King James Bible

James commissioned what we know today as the King James Bible. The process that began so as to print the Bible began in 1604. The Bible was printed in 1611 and under James authority thanks to Johannes Gutenberg's invention of the printing press in 1451 .

James arranged for the converted the passage in the transcript of Exodus 22:18 that originally read, thou shalt not suffer a poisoner to live, to read as, thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
This was because James blamed a coven of witches for the sinking of one of his ships. He also believed a coven was conspiring through magic to remove him from the throne. Condemning witches by "God's word", gave power to the throne, at a time when there was no separation of church and state, to root out his problem with witches.
King Solomon employed magic in his time. He also had multiple wives and many concubines. And Solomon remains as one of the wisest men of all time, in the eyes of the Christian faith. This makes for a conflict in matters of Witchcraft being condemned by God while one of the wisest Hebrews to ever live, according to Hebrew tradition and scripture, employed their power while on the throne.
Thanks a lot, that is what I was looking for, a reason all the hate for witches began. I appreciate it.
 

Diamond

Member
I believe it works through demonic powers.
no,witchcraft is not through demonic powers for real witches that use it for good,however there are some individuals who proclaim to be witches who do use witchcraft for evil,or wrong doings,we have no part in that circle do not associate ourselves with those individuals.A true witches way is to help for the greatest good and harm none,if we do it will come back 3 fold!!
anyone who uses demonic powers is called a satanist and they consider "Satan" as there head.Most witches don't even believe in "Satan",that is a creation entity that Christians acknowledge,not witches,we believe that evil and negative spirits do exist,and we try to protect ourselves from such.
Lots of people prejudge us by hear-say they don't research for themselves!! or find out what is true.we love all life forms and we are earth people who cherishes nature and it's beauty. Spells are nothing more then prayers maybe using different tactics to accomplish the spells,we may operate in a different manner and believe certain things that the average Christian doesn't. Witch is just a name for a human being who believes that they have abilities and powers to make what Christians call "miracles", we call them manifestations,we believe we can more energy for what is desired to be.Some worship Gods and Goddesses and some worship a Creator Christians call "God"not all witches are the same,there's a lot of different kinds,such as Garden witches,Celtic witches,Wicca witches,Wicca shamanism green witches,Hereditary witches,Greece-roman witches,Cabot witches,Christian witches,Dianic witches, Alexandrian witches,Eclectic witches,Solitary witches and a few more. We don't have a Manuel such a "the bible" but there are books we read and learn that are written by other Wicca,witches & etc. we don't have to deal with dogma of religions or denominations. Many witches such as myself follow "new age" practices and philosophies and spirituality.We are the same as any other human being;believe it or not.We aren't ugly old witches with warts that puts curses on people.I myself give my credit to the Creator of heaven and earth, for he is the one who equipped me with my abilities and psychic powers and guides me each day!!what we see is the human flesh our soul lives in,so we can identify each other while we are on earth,I personally believe everyone is psychic,most just don't believe so therefore they don't use it. Back in time they hid these abilities because of the belief that we were of the devil, so we hid our meetings and etc. not because we were a cult doing evil. Now, we are starting to come out and not be scared or ashamed of our beliefs, but some still keep it hush hush because of family,friends and co workers who still believe it is evil doing? maybe one day all people will accept us without judgement and hate or fear,maybe one day.anyway,I've said enough just wanted to shed some light on what witchcraft and witches truly is.We operate out of Love and Divine.
 

UpperLimits

Active Member
He means that the Abrahamic religions believe that only they have truth and all other religions are evil lies. Pluralist religions like most of the indigenous polytheistic religions or major religions like Hinduism view truth as multi-faceted and do not judge the religious beliefs of others. It's just seen as another way of viewing reality and it's not a bad thing. The Baha'i religion is really not inclusive because it expects everyone to eventually convert to it. Even the religions it twists and distorts in an effort to assimilate it, they view as wrong and their religion as superior. They also do not recognize polytheistic indigenous religions as actual religions. They're actually very insulting. Pretty much the only time non-Abrshamics get mad at Abrahamics is because of how the Abrahamics treated us in the past and how they still do treat us now. If they left people alone and respected difference, no one would have a problem.
Haven't studied this a lot, have you? Interesting opinion though.....
 

Zita

Solitary Eclectic Witch
The Bible is "old". There was no internet, less books and lots of illiterate people. Fear is a big challenge to overcome in all humans. Fear is a major useful emotions to control humans

Once I was hacked by a Nigerian hacker who demanded money. I wrote back to him "I spend 10 years in India and am pretty good in witchcraft ... don't you dare threaten me again or I will use my black magic on you". I never heard again of this African hacker.

In short: It's just fear and ignorance that people are against Witches and Witchcraft. The Church is known to be an institute of big power for many centuries. There is only 1 way to gain/keep power and that is to manipulate people and using fear is a good one for that. Witchcraft is a good one to use, because no one can proof anything, and the unknown is scary to the unenlightened soul

Very well put, I have 3 friends who are witches and one is wiccan, they are very peaceful people who truly operate out of love, most people are still caught up in the false acquisitions and assume everything that they have been told was correct, no one takes the time to research and find out the truth and of course that bible is the main problem and belief of religious people, they would probably be shocked to learn what they really are about.
people think they operate from the devil, far from the truth they don't even believe in the Christians entity devil, they believe that evil is in the human mind and action of the individual they do perform spells but not to curse people or manipulate others or conjure up demons to go and kill or harm someone.
they have to live by the Wiccan creed or the witches creed both of which states that they are to harm no one or harmful actions to anyone, if they practice this type of spells, they will have it fall back on them 3 fold and it will be ugly because they operate out of universal love.
they believe that we are all one and should help each other when needed and do kind deeds regularly, they cast spells to heal, assist, spiritual guidance,rid someone of mental distress, help someone in any way they can, as well as to assist themselves in different matters, do as you will but harm no one is their motto
. there love and feel connected with nature and the beautification of nature, and taking care of earth like picking up trash thrown around, planting follows taking walks in the woods and meditating outside under the moon that sort of things,also they do not bash other religions at all, they respect other peoples choice, and they don't try to shove there on others or argue to defend themselves they are comfortable in their own skin.
They are very private people who continually seek and learn about ways to be spiritual beings, they do use divination to receive guidance from spiritual beings , to reach their higher self and enlightenment. there's much more. It does bother most of them that people still have fear and hatred of them because they still believe the lie about them, that originated in the olden days.
Witchcraft is actually a spiritual path it was considered the old religion,but they prefer a spirituality practice.They will not deny the fact that there are some individuals who call themselves witches that do black magic to harm others,but there is no associations with them and they aren't truly witches by nature.You have the good and the bad ones, just like there are good and bad Christians, it's life. Just thought I'd shed a little light on the situation.:hearteyes:
 

Zita

Solitary Eclectic Witch
If an American criticised me for showing an English knight with cross of Saint George, I might not write it on RF but I know what I would think.
Bloomin' foreigners! :p

The OT mention of ''shall not suffer witches to live' could be s mis-translation. After all Jewish Kings sought the guidance of seers such as the Witch of Endor.

Christians looking for an excuse to condemn witchcraft will quote the Bible Suffer not a witch to live, from Exodus 22:17. This passage has been translated many times. In the older versions of Exodus, the meaning was "Thou shall not suffer a sorceress to live."In this particular setting, a sorceress referred to a poisoner,a murderer.The original meaning was "suffer not a murderer to live"which eventually got confused with the word witch, causing misunderstandings to this day.
 

Firemorphic

Activist Membrane
Christians looking for an excuse to condemn witchcraft will quote the Bible Suffer not a witch to live, from Exodus 22:17. This passage has been translated many times. In the older versions of Exodus, the meaning was "Thou shall not suffer a sorceress to live."In this particular setting, a sorceress referred to a poisoner,a murderer.The original meaning was "suffer not a murderer to live"which eventually got confused with the word witch, causing misunderstandings to this day.

Someone brought this up a little while ago, it's clear from both other non-KJV translations and the original Hebrew, that it doesn't say "witch". And that witches themselves are a modern mythology (like Satanists), later being appropriated in the Neopagan revival starting late 19th century and transformed into various Neopagan movements/traditions last century.

One translation I read actually said "someone that has intercourse with animals should not have the right to live" (paraphrasing).
 

Zita

Solitary Eclectic Witch
That was a bit inconsiderate of me. I didn't mean to imply you were stupid. I don't believe you are. And I hope we can be friends. I have at least one relative into the new age stuff. But I have to be be honest with you about witchcraft. Even though the meaning of witch/wizard/magic is linked with wisdom. It's not the wisdom of God.

You may believe you're a white witch. But, since you made this thread to get the Christian POV; I'll tell you I don't believe in white witchcraft.

  • Psychic abilities are not necessarily fake; but granted to people by spirits entities
  • White witches can't win against black magic because the game is rigged.
  • The only way to beat satan is with Jesus Christ on your side; not spirit guides.
  • You can't beat satan with witchcraft.
  • Christianity is not witchcraft and Solomon wasn't a witch. The wisdom of God is different and holy.
So I don't mean any offense. Just giving you my POV since you made this thread to find out what Christians think. Obviously I'm not all Christians. But this is from my own personal research/knowledge.
Thank you for your post, I appreciate your words, and we are friends.;)
 

Zita

Solitary Eclectic Witch
Someone brought this up a little while ago, it's clear from both other non-KJV translations and the original Hebrew, that it doesn't say "witch". And that witches themselves are a modern mythology (like Satanists), later being appropriated in the Neopagan revival starting late 19th century and transformed into various Neopagan movements/traditions last century.

One translation I read actually said "someone that has intercourse with animals should not have the right to live" (paraphrasing).
wow, that is a crazy translation!!!!
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Once I was hacked by a Nigerian hacker who demanded money. I wrote back to him
"I spend 10 years in India and am pretty good in witchcraft ... don't you dare threaten me again or I will use my black magic on you".
I never heard again of this African hacker.
Glad he listened, because my Master told me "Hurt Never" ... but I was quite sure me mentioning "Black Magic" would do the trick

they don't even believe in the Christians entity devil, they believe that evil is in the human mind and action of the individual

My Master taught the same and this is how I looked at "the Devil" as long as I can remember (luckily this Bible-virus did not get to me)
Christians are against Black Magic, not realizing that them telling others "If you don't follow Jesus you go to Hell" is exactly Black Magic
Proof is obvious: I met so many Christians who are stiff frightened for this imaginative Hell (created by the Pope/Church using indulgences)
I met a man who said "I do voodoo and killed Osho and will kill you, unless you pay me 50 dollars (in India)"
Another woman believed when a man told her, got very sick and died because she believed the man telling her this
Ironically those Christians accuse others of witchcraft, who don't practice it, but they themselves practice witchcraft
Ironically those Christians talk about "the Anti Christ" ... but IMHO they are "Anti Christ" themselves (according to their own definitions)

I have 3 friends who are witches and one is wiccan, they are very peaceful people who truly operate out of love
they don't even believe in the Christians entity devil, they believe that evil is in the human mind and action of the individual
Wiccan creed or the witches creed both of which states that they are to harm no one or harmful actions to anyone
they believe that we are all one and should help each other when needed and do kind deeds regularly, they cast spells to heal, assist, spiritual guidance
they don't try to shove there on others or argue to defend themselves they are comfortable in their own skin
they do use divination to receive guidance from spiritual beings , to reach their higher self and enlightenment
It does bother most of them that people still have fear and hatred of them because they still believe the lie about them
Witchcraft is actually a spiritual path it was considered the old religion,but they prefer a spirituality practice
They will not deny the fact that there are some individuals who call themselves witches that do black magic to harm others..no associations

Thank you, very good post ... I only know "very" nice witches, who live like you describe in your reply
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Christians looking for an excuse to condemn witchcraft will quote the Bible Suffer not a witch to live, from Exodus 22:17.
Yes.

This passage has been translated many times. In the older versions of Exodus, the meaning was "Thou shall not suffer a sorceress to live."In this particular setting, a sorceress referred to a poisoner,a murderer.The original meaning was "suffer not a murderer to live"which eventually got confused with the word witch, causing misunderstandings to this day.

Excellent work!
Could you show us the translation trail from the original word thru' 'sorceress' and on to 'murderer', please? That would help because many RF members are keen scholars and would like to be able to demonstrate this same translation point in the future.

Thankyou. :)
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Christians looking for an excuse to condemn witchcraft will quote the Bible Suffer not a witch to live, from Exodus 22:17. This passage has been translated many times. In the older versions of Exodus, the meaning was "Thou shall not suffer a sorceress to live."In this particular setting, a sorceress referred to a poisoner,a murderer.The original meaning was "suffer not a murderer to live"which eventually got confused with the word witch, causing misunderstandings to this day.

Jesus could well have been titled as a Sorcerer

In the gospels he has been called a carpenter(english) and a tecton (Greek) but since tecton could mean 'highly skilled' or 'wise' (the word technology comes from it) Jesus could have been a handworker in stone, bone, wood or even metal. But Jesus's special reputation was as a healer and worker of miracles!

The Eastern Aramaic word is 'Nagar' or 'Nagatta' and this is associated with 'crafting' in the Sorcerer sense.

A word related to Nagar is Nachash = Serpent as in 'hissing' an incantantion. Snake (serpent) in Indian is 'Naga', and 'Nagash' in Syrian (Babylon) and also 'Nachash in the Bible. All of these words are associated with Sorcery and Magic. I have read (from @Ingledsva) that one word in the bible shows Nachash as whispering or hissing an incantation.

Another word related to Nagar is 'Kharash'.

Obviously a person like Jesus who could do what Jesus did would be called a Sorcerer, as the words above were/are used.

OK?? ... crafting............ sorcerer ...... Kharash and tekton ... nagar ... nacash ... nagash ... magic.

And Healers were often associated with magic.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
The Eastern Aramaic word 'Nagar' or 'Nagatta' and this is associated with 'crafting' in the Sorcerer sense.

An even closer aramaic word is n'chash. It has identical spelling as Nachash ( nun-ches-shin ).

n'chash is Bronze, an alloy of copper.

hyperlink >>> biblehub.com - Strong's Hebrew: 5174. נְחָשׁ (nechash) -- copper, bronze

Bronze is a very useful metal for crafting. I if wonder copper's material properties are reflected in Wiccan / Witch craft?

hyperlink >>> wikipedia.org - Bronze

@Diamond ,

Is bronze significant in your ritual, practice, or beliefs?
 
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1213

Well-Known Member
What does the bible and it's followers have against Witches and Witchcraft,I'm looking for real and real convincing reasons?

I think it is because it is connected to evil spirits, which can lead to many evil deeds.
 

Zita

Solitary Eclectic Witch
Someone brought this up a little while ago, it's clear from both other non-KJV translations and the original Hebrew, that it doesn't say "witch". And that witches themselves are a modern mythology (like Satanists), later being appropriated in the Neopagan revival starting late 19th century and transformed into various Neopagan movements/traditions last century.

One translation I read actually said "someone that has intercourse with animals should not have the right to live" (paraphrasing).
Someone brought this up a little while ago, it's clear from both other non-KJV translations and the original Hebrew, that it doesn't say "witch". And that witches themselves are a modern mythology (like Satanists), later being appropriated in the Neopagan revival starting late 19th century and transformed into various Neopagan movements/traditions last century.

One translation I read actually said "someone that has intercourse with animals should not have the right to live" (paraphrasing).
Witches existed before modern mythology,It was not until 1000AD that the practice of witchcraft and witches invoked the wrath of priests,and Christianity feeling like if it wasn't of their religion it was evil,Witchcraft was seen as a religion of the ancient. The 1st crusade against witches was held in 1022AD when a witch was burned to death.
An even closer aramaic word is n'chash. It has identical spelling as Nachash ( nun-ches-shin ).

n'chash is Bronze, an alloy of copper.

hyperlink >>> biblehub.com - Strong's Hebrew: 5174. נְחָשׁ (nechash) -- copper, bronze

Bronze is a very useful metal for crafting. I if wonder copper's material properties are reflected in Wiccan / Witch craft?

hyperlink >>> wikipedia.org - Bronze

@Diamond ,

Is bronze significant in your ritual, practice, or beliefs?
definitely, thanks for that info!!!
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
An even closer aramaic word is n'chash. It has identical spelling as Nachash ( nun-ches-shin ).

n'chash is Bronze, an alloy of copper.

hyperlink >>> biblehub.com - Strong's Hebrew: 5174. נְחָשׁ (nechash) -- copper, bronze

Bronze is a very useful metal for crafting. I if wonder copper's material properties are reflected in Wiccan / Witch craft?

Maybe.
I expect that bronze production was just one of many industries carried out by tecton's, nagarras or magi etc.

The Cornish have an Oral Tradition that Jesus visited Cornwall with the trading merchant 'Joseph of Arimathea. Tell this to the average audience and you get hoots of laughter, but since Cornwall exported more tin that anywhere else that is known, since the Phoenicians traded with Cornwall for tin for thousands of years, since their main ports were Sidon and Tyre and since Jesus knew these ports and visited them in the gospels, when individual pieces of info like this 'click' then they can often be right, if not always.

There's much more in the Jesus story than was needed or wanted by Christianity, methinks.
 
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