Will there be freewill in the afterlife?

[Sleeppy]

They rot, and you don't really need data, simple observation will tell you this every time.

In this case, you do. What scientifically, is the physical decay process? Decay describes a rearranging of physical material. Energy is released and redistributed.

We actually decay regularly. We die, regularly. We release, intake, and transform energy incessantly. You aren't the same as you were at any other moment in time, but not wholly different either. Etc. Etc.

Is simple observation enough for beings of limited perceptive ability, to find truth? Only through time, and trial and error.

 

[Demonslayer]

What scientifically, is the physical decay process?

It's very well defined and documented, and obviously a lot different than things like shedding skin and hair that you reference as the 'decay' we all go through while we are living.

My point was you ask what happens when we die, and the answer is we rot and it's readily observable. Any postulation that a personality escape pod goes flying out of us when we die, carrying off our vital us-ness to some wondering post-death life is wishful thinking at best.

 

[Sleeppy]

It's very well defined and documented, and obviously a lot different than things like shedding skin and hair that you reference as the 'decay' we all go through while we are living.

My point was you ask what happens when we die, and the answer is we rot and it's readily observable. Any postulation that a personality escape pod goes flying out of us when we die, carrying off our vital us-ness to some wondering post-death life is wishful thinking at best.

Actually, no different. It's all the same basic process, with variance only according to amount of energy and time of release. (Information on the Periodic table of elements, if not mistaken).

Your next point is fine. That does sound like wishful thinking. Reminds me of "spooky action at a distance".

 

[Demonslayer]

Actually, no different. It's all the same basic process,

The removal of oxygen from the system makes it markedly different. I may not smell great in the morning, but it's nothing compared to a week old corpse.

Your next point is fine. That does sound like wishful thinking.

It would be nice though, wouldn't it!

 

[Sleeppy]

It would be nice though, wouldn't it!

It would be nice though, wouldn't it!

Or more of the same.

Just to get an idea about how often we regenerate. Cell lifespan data: http://topics.info.com/_2676

Even certain brain cells have been shown to regenerate: http://www.webmd.com/brain/news/20000306/get-smart-brain-cells-do-regrow-study-confirms


Consciousness is local to an organism, in the sense that brain cells are local to the brain. -- Think about that. The sole purpose of consciousness, or brain cells, is to receive and/or rearrange energy, or information.

RNA exists in every cell. RNA functions as DNA's messenger. The foundation of human physical consciousness is our DNA. Human consciousness itself arises out of the relationships manifested between cells. DNA is the playbook; RNA the coach; brain cells are like quarterbacks. Consciousness can be affected by cell health, or decay- we know this.


Reproduction is actually resurrection. Sexual reproduction is the most obvious form of reproduction, but certainly not the only form. Reincarnation is actually just that subconscious reaction to an organisms decay: "energy can neither be created, nor destroyed".

 

[OurCreed]

Really?

Pretty sure we still argue about that and why would all powerful god have human morality?

God doesn't possess any moral values, He is a neutral being. However, He has attributes, and out of His attributes, moral values are formed. That means from His very nature moral values are derived from.

I know mine aren't merciful at least they don't torture you forever for not believing in them though.

Please stop making strawman arguments. The Qur'an teaches that hell is temporary whereas heaven is forever. On top of that, God doesn't torture anyone, you torture yourself. When you drink alcohol and do drugs while pregnant, you are killing your own child in your womb by the choices you make. That is the same thing as hell. You create your own hell.

 

[OurCreed]

Yes, but they will exist separately or not? I think you said that one place had only good and the other only evil. Do heaven and hell communicate in any way so that people can stll make sense of their ups or downs?

If not, then how does the soul of a very young child know where she is?

Ciao

- viole

Firstly, we don't know what happens to young children when they die. There is one interpretation of the Qur'an that says that all human beings actually had a life before the one we had here on earth. So we were alive in a different place before our life here on earth, and then we died in that world and were born into this world. Some died very early on when they came to this world and others lived their normal lifetimes and some lived to be very old.

Second, regarding heaven and hell. The two are one and the same, just different states or feelings a person will experience. Heaven will be good whereas hell will feel bad. The Qur'an confirms that the people in heaven will understand that it is good.

2;25
"And give good tidings to those who believe and do righteous deeds that they will have gardens [in Paradise] beneath which rivers flow. Whenever they are provided with a provision of fruit therefrom, they will say, "This is what we were provided with before." And it is given to them in likeness. And they will have therein purified spouses, and they will abide therein eternally."

So the Qur'an says here that the good things the people will get in heaven, they will know it is good because they recognize that they were given these good things before, as in this world. Probably in different forms, but nevertheless, recognize that it is good.

The following verses also give us a good insight.

70;40-47
"In Paradise they will ask one another about the guilty, “What has caused you to enter Hell?” They will say: “We were not of those who used to offer the prayer, nor did we feed the poor; and we used to talk falsehood with vain talkers and we used to belie the Day of Recompense, until there came to us (the death) that is certain.”"

So the people of paradise will understand what is evil, but since they are in a near presence to God, they will not be affected by any evil.

39;61
"And Allah will save those who feared Him by their attainment; no evil will touch them, nor will they grieve."

 

[syo]

In my religion there is no freewill after death.

 

[viole]

Firstly, we don't know what happens to young children when they die. There is one interpretation of the Qur'an that says that all human beings actually had a life before the one we had here on earth. So we were alive in a different place before our life here on earth, and then we died in that world and were born into this world. Some died very early on when they came to this world and others lived their normal lifetimes and some lived to be very old.
"

Well, that is a pity, for what happens to children is the soft belly of any theology based on Hell and Heaven. When a Christian says they go to Heaven by default, she generates the counterfactual conclusion that we should envy little children dying very young, for getting a basically risk free ticket to eternal bliss. What have they done to deserve such a favor? Assuming, they know what good is, since they never experienced its opposite, of course.

But I an intrigued. You seem to indicate an interpretation of your Scriptures that supports a form of reincarnation. But it fails the first empirical and logical test, i am afraid. Empircal because I cannot remember anything of my previous life and, therefore, it is as if never happened. Logical because if I remember nothing of my previous life, how do I know I will remember something in the next?

In my opinion all this is an unnecessary complication of something fundamentally simple.

Ciao

- viole

 

[JustWondering]

That's why the test is so difficult, there can be no such thing as good without bad, no more than left without right, they define each other.

Can you ever really do something 'good', if you literally have no alternative? So it must be a free choice, and so in heaven, we have free will, but we have learned to only use it to choose good.

If you can only do good in heaven and never evil then free will must be limited or removed, yes?

 

[JustWondering]

I would say man created evil, not god.

God created two equally opposing conditions, gravitation and radiation that he used to create the universe and everything in it. That evil crap is all on us. The only blame you can put on god is for giving us free will and the ability to act like morons.
Just sayin :/

If there is a god I don't think it's that interested in what we do. From my experience and observation the universe works as if there is no god or if there is one, it is letting things unfold as they will without interfering.

 

[ronandcarol]

Will there be freewill in the afterlife?
If your reference to afterlife is Heaven, freewill won't be an issue. Those that Love, worship and honor God here on earth will be spending eternity, Loving, worshiping, and honoring Him in Heaven also. Freewill comes into play when a person wants to do something that is usually not in line with what God has planned. In heaven we will all be doing the things that are in line with God's plan and will for His children. Just my humble thoughts.

ronandcarol

 

[Guy Threepwood]

If you can only do good in heaven and never evil then free will must be limited or removed, yes?

sorry for late reply

Meaning you have the free will, but choose to use it only for good...

Let's say you used to drink too much, and then learned to abstain- and never touched a drop ever again.

That doesn't mean you lost any free will does it? It just means you learned to use it more wisely.

 

[Bird123]

For religions that put emphasis on this life being a test because we have freewill and can make bad/wrong decisions, will people have freewill in the afterlife? If freewill makes people so unpredictable that we need to be tested in the first place, what will keep them from making bad/wrong decisions in the afterlife? Will our freewill be removed? Will freewill be limited in some fashion so transgressions can't be made? If our freewill will be removed or limited later, what purpose is there in testing us at all?

OK, how about this one? Instead of a test. life is the education of God's children. When one makes a bad choice to begin with, God, in time, returns that choice back to us. We learn by living all sides of that choice. Once all sides are discovered, intelligence makes the right choice. Through our new found knowledge and wisdom, that particular bad choice is no longer a viable choice even though we are still capable of making that choice. Through the eons of existence, understanding and wisdom add up. There must come a time when the bad choices are no longer choices to us at all. Perhaps that is the time when we will no longer require physical bodies.

We are all at different levels on our journeys. There are many bad choices that exist that I could never make. Since this is a multilevel classroom, each has things they could never choose and things they choose they should never do. That is the nature of living our education.

If it were like religion teaches in addition having freewill, the war in heaven would start even before the first day was done.

Since mankind's greatest problem is that everybody wants to rule the world, it would convert into everybody wants to rule heaven. Ah yes,Paradise at last!!!!

 

[JustWondering]

OK, how about this one? Instead of a test. life is the education of God's children. When one makes a bad choice to begin with, God, in time, returns that choice back to us. We learn by living all sides of that choice. Once all sides are discovered, intelligence makes the right choice. Through our new found knowledge and wisdom, that particular bad choice is no longer a viable choice even though we are still capable of making that choice. Through the eons of existence, understanding and wisdom add up. There must come a time when the bad choices are no longer choices to us at all. Perhaps that is the time when we will no longer require physical bodies.

We are all at different levels on our journeys. There are many bad choices that exist that I could never make. Since this is a multilevel classroom, each has things they could never choose and things they choose they should never do. That is the nature of living our education.

If it were like religion teaches in addition having freewill, the war in heaven would start even before the first day was done.

Since mankind's greatest problem is that everybody wants to rule the world, it would convert into everybody wants to rule heaven. Ah yes,Paradise at last!!!!

Thanks for replying, didn't really answer my question though.

 

[JustWondering]

sorry for late reply

Meaning you have the free will, but choose to use it only for good...

Let's say you used to drink too much, and then learned to abstain- and never touched a drop ever again.

That doesn't mean you lost any free will does it? It just means you learned to use it more wisely.

So behavior is what is most important. I know that touching the stove while it is on will burn me. So, even if given an eternity of opportunities to I'd never of my free will touch a stove while its on. Does an eternal hell make sense if behaviors can be learned? Wouldn't people be able to learn to conform their behaviors to god's standards while in hell and then go to heaven? If not, are some people just incapable of conforming to god's standards?

 

[VioletVortex]

I think the afterlife is more free than this world.

If there was no free will in the afterlife, I obviously wouldn't know, but I'd rather go to the Christian concept of Hell speaking from this world. Better burn in Hell than be a puppet in heaven! Any god who is a threat to the individual power of my soul is not an entity to be worshipped, the way I see it.