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Why would monotheism be a good thing, let alone a necessary one?

Well my guess is that hundreds of books and thousands of careers have been based on this question. I can't claim to bring anything new to the table. It strikes me that my beliefs are consistent with one camp of thought, and yours are consistent with another camp.

I'm not sure I've ever seen any actual arguments in favour, just assumptions. Can you point me in the direction of some?

It took 400 years for the ME to become majority Muslim despite significant financial and social incentives to convert.

This demonstrates that it wasn't simply a case of rulers telling people what to think and them meekly complying.

Not to mention that rulers actually believed in their faith rather than cynically seeing it as a nice tool of control.
 

Acim

Revelation all the time
What I ask here is for some hint or help on why this specific (and IMO rather minor, as all matters that come too close to relying on the belief of the existence of a deity for their significance tend to be) matter is perceived as so significant by many Christians and Muslims.

Word has it that whole denominations refuse to acknowledge specific others as being "true" Christians / Muslims supposedly because they are Trinitarians or are understood for some other reason to be polytheistic. It is, literally, a deal breaker for many people, and I am told that it requires a considerable effort from some in order to keep their faith that others keep true to apparently important monotheism despite what is perceived as indications to the contrary.

Try as I might, I have so far failed to conceive better explanations for so much worry beyond two very weak reasons.

Seems you are overlooking the Gnostic and/or esoteric rationale for monotheism. I think from this perspective there's a simplistic way to present it, but there's also a (far) deeper way to understand it.

I think the simplistic version would be in vein of one God equals one Reality. Heck, I'm tempted to just leave the simplistic right there, because elaborating on that would be going deeper.

But I desire to go a bit deeper anyway and (at least) hint at the other way of understanding why monotheism is sensible.

I would say Love is the One Reality that binds all (truly) existing things together. Through Love all is shared equally, all are in a continuous existence of gaining / growing. In this Reality, there is nothing that takes away from this, even if there is conviction in notion of lack, scarcity, death, etc. Yet, there are beliefs in this world that amount to lack, scarcity, and death (among other possible such beliefs). This sets up another existence, and may even be perceived as 'reality.'

Where things get deep is a) the realization that this has literally zero impact on (actual) Reality and b) that the believer is (entirely) responsible for this worldview, giving it all the meaning it has for own self. In mere words, that might not sound all that deep, but it gets to notion of really why not place any other gods before (the one true) God. It's not a commandment of that God for that God. That God is going to be just fine. Gaining exponentially, nothing to prevent that. It's a commandment for the believer who thinks (holds conviction) in the notion they are 'not of that God.' Or perhaps more like conveying the idea that all such 'gods' would be beneath who you are (in Reality). So, if instead elevating those gods as above you, then that poses a problem (for the believer). In Reality, they are beneath the believer, but are perhaps currently being treated as above the believer and between the one God and Self. Thus, there's a desire (often) to appease the other gods, and their alleged needs, rather than to work directly with what God is asking of the believer, which is really nothing other than reflection of what the believer says they need/desire most right now, of which God has zero problem providing, as long as what is being asked for, actually exists. Hence how this gets esoteric, fast.

I somewhat feel like going on, but mostly feel like halting here for whatever clarification might be sought, or just to leave it here. The only thing I would add is that the last assertion I made is written in vein, for me, that God (via Holy Spirit, or God's communication link to those who hold any level of conviction in notion of 'I am not God') purifies all such requests, such that there is not something that can be put before God and not re-constituted to serve Creation. How that reconstitution looks, exactly precisely quantifiably is not known to this believer (me), yet I have experienced it. More than once, and feel confident everyone has. As an example of what I speak, I may ask God for more money, because I see that as something that is between God and me, as in it has power above my own self and thus is 'higher' than me, but beneath God. While God (I imagine) treats it for the nothingness it actually is, and hear's request of "I'm feeling lack of abundance, please remind me of how abundant I am as God." And how that plays out circumstantially may vary, but the principle (of abundance) would be fairly consistent. The circumstances may be 'vastly different' but all that could be simply filtered through the illusion that it is (thus really no different, but may be treated as otherwise, based strictly on appearances). And I'd just add in kicker that the prayer request could (likely is) answered in a way that is rather immediate, but given that I'm asking for "more money" I may not recognize it being answered immediately, or even possibly see it as not answered at all. I may actually get very clear indication of how abundant I am right now, but overlook that in favor of the god (money) that I've placed between God and me.
 

Sonofason

Well-Known Member
In my mind, one event tends to imply one cause...The Big Bang. This entire creation seems to have been catapulted into existence by one single event occurring in one infinitesimally small location. What is the logic of something coming from virtually what appears to be nothing by multiple causes. What indeed is a SINGULARITY...it sounds like a lot of oneness to me.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
A very pervasive, but completely anachronistic myth.

In this particular case (monotheism, and in particular trinitarianism) I think there's a case to be made.

There seems little doubt to me that Constantine was determined the Church required a single doctrine on it, at least in part because he had merged aspects of Church and State.

Arianism, for example, led to an unstable Church, and therefore represented a risk to the State itself.
 

Kirran

Premium Member
In this particular case (monotheism, and in particular trinitarianism) I think there's a case to be made.

There seems little doubt to me that Constantine was determined the Church required a single doctrine on it, at least in part because he had merged aspects of Church and State.

Arianism, for example, led to an unstable Church, and therefore represented a risk to the State itself.

But monotheism overall stretches across African, Middle Eastern, Indian, Chinese and Japanese traditions. So while Abrahamic monotheism might in some cases have had political connections in this way (in the same as atheism did for the Soviets and the Maoists) it can hardly be said that monotheism itself is about power politics.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
Abrahamic monotheism might in some cases have had political connections...

That's all I'm saying, I never meant "100% of the time".

But seriously, did anyone really think I meant "100% of the time"? And if not, then why bring up the "well not 100% of the time" argument at all?
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
But monotheism overall stretches across African, Middle Eastern, Indian, Chinese and Japanese traditions. So while Abrahamic monotheism might in some cases have had political connections in this way (in the same as atheism did for the Soviets and the Maoists) it can hardly be said that monotheism itself is about power politics.

That's why I said 'in this particular case' and referred to trinitarianism, big fella!
 

Kirran

Premium Member
That's why I said 'in this particular case' and referred to trinitarianism, big fella!

Well I found it a little ambiguous - "in this case (monotheism and especially trinitarianism)" so while I tend to give you the benefit of the doubt by dint of your being you I thought I'd clarify for the sake of readership.

That's all I'm saying, I never meant "100% of the time".

But seriously, did anyone really think I meant "100% of the time"? And if not, then why bring up the "well not 100% of the time" argument at all?

I wasn't responding to you, and actually haven't read your posts in this thread.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Well I found it a little ambiguous - "in this case (monotheism and especially trinitarianism)" so while I tend to give you the benefit of the doubt by dint of your being you I thought I'd clarify for the sake of readership.
Yep, all good.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
I am aware that there is some controversy among the Abrahamics on this matter.

Many people consider the worship of Saints in some segments of Christianity to be a form of polytheism and therefore a deviation from supposedly necessary monotheism.

Some consider Trinitarianism itself a form of polytheism.

Islaam specifically seems to place a good deal of significance to keeping proper monotheism, to the point of insisting that politheism is automatically idolatry and, to the best of my understanding, insisting that we should understand that "God has no partners, no associates" and that it is not proper nor desirable to have intermediaries between a Muslim's relationship with God.

That seems at first glance to imply on disapproval of the regard for the Qur'an as scripture and even of worship of God, but apparently that is not what is meant even by the most extreme interpretations of those principles. Fair enough, although I find the language inaccurate, even misleading, particularly given how seriously Muslims seem to take the matter.

What I ask here is for some hint or help on why this specific (and IMO rather minor, as all matters that come too close to relying on the belief of the existence of a deity for their significance tend to be) matter is perceived as so significant by many Christians and Muslims.

Word has it that whole denominations refuse to acknowledge specific others as being "true" Christians / Muslims supposedly because they are Trinitarians or are understood for some other reason to be polytheistic. It is, literally, a deal breaker for many people, and I am told that it requires a considerable effort from some in order to keep their faith that others keep true to apparently important monotheism despite what is perceived as indications to the contrary.

Try as I might, I have so far failed to conceive better explanations for so much worry beyond two very weak reasons.

1. Peer pressure and social bonding needs.

People will often attempt to build a sense of community by producing issues and lending them significance, underscoring how misled the outsiders who fail to value it are.

Monotheism is as good an issue to be lent significance as any, I suppose, although I don't think that explains the intensity of the passions that some people have on the issue.

2. Pascal's Wager and its variants.

It is all-out contradictory that a sincere monotheist would lend any significance to this glorified joke that is the claim that you better "at least try" to believe "in the right God" in order to avoid "punishment in the afterlife". Yet so many people assure me that they mean it that I can't help but assume that they are sincere. Presumably polytheism, even when not conscious, would be grounds for such punishment.

It makes no sense. Then again Pascal's Wager was never to be taken seriously, as pretty much any serious analysis by any perspective will immediately show.

It makes no theological sense, no religious sense, no rational sense, no moral sense, lacks internal coherence and does not take anthropological reality into consideration. Yet variations of it keep popping up, presumably as significant arguments for belief even, from people that I have no reason to believe to be lying or consciously trolling as they do so.

Even taken together, those two factors seem way too weak to explain the insistence on monotheism and the passions attached to that insistence. Yet I have utterly failed to conceive of any other explanation.

Any ideas on what I may be missing? Maybe it is just that there are indeed many people who take Pascal's Wager seriously, unlikely as that seems to me?


Edited to add: after creating this thread it occurred to me that there may be a third, somewhat more understandable (but not much better) reason.

Belief in monotheism or monocracy may be appealling for people who find in it relief from the terrible stress that is dealing with the diversity of beliefs and ideological stances around.

In a way, it implies that there is no particular need to listen and deal to other people's perspectives, because it is all somehow part of God's plan and he will step in as he sees fit.

I think it is a particularly strong appeal among the Bahais and Ahmadiyya Mulsims, but by no means limited to them.

Just off-hand answer going by the title of the thread.

Monotheism: Promotes unity
Polytheism: Promotes diversity

I like how polytheism addresses life. Monotheism tends to fall on hierarchy and power. Polytheism seems more community.

So, why would monotheism be a good thing?

It would if we saw it as god bringing unity not god as all-powerful.

It would be necessary if we see mono/one as unity because it fosters us to work as a unit with a unit or one foundation as the source not higher or below-just the source that makes the unit run.
 

von bek

Well-Known Member
I like how polytheism addresses life. Monotheism tends to fall on hierarchy and power. Polytheism seems more community.

I feel the same. For me, Paganism is about celebrating THIS life. I am devoted to Artemis because I revere the woods I grew up in. She permeated my childhood, having grown up in the country. She is the goddess of the forests, where I am happy to be, among the trees. I am an animal lover, and She is Queen of animals. I worship Hermes because He is the god of speech and writing. I revere language and story-telling. As a polytheist, I have a variety of deities to call upon as the occasion sees fit. Some I worship daily, such as Artemis. Others I may only call upon or worship at less frequent intervals.
 
In this particular case (monotheism, and in particular trinitarianism) I think there's a case to be made.

There seems little doubt to me that Constantine was determined the Church required a single doctrine on it, at least in part because he had merged aspects of Church and State.

Arianism, for example, led to an unstable Church, and therefore represented a risk to the State itself.

Arianism was really the more monotheistic position though. This is a question of orthodoxy rather than strict monotheism.

While establishing orthodoxy was important to prevent social conflict, it was not the Emperor who decided upon orthodoxy but the bishops (whose views in turn reflected the people). The emperor legitimised/enforced orthodoxy in the name of social harmony rather than created it out of convenience.

Once orthodoxy is established then a rejection of this is ultimately a rejection of the power of the emperor which is why heresy was often violently suppressed.

State polytheism generally had no concept of orthodoxy so could tolerate a diversity of beliefs. State monotheism created the situation where diverse beliefs were a challenge to and a (potentially treasonous) rejection of state power.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Since people do and will naturally develop a diversity of belief stances, it seems to me that state religion - even polytheistic religion - is essentially the acceptance of use of the power of authority in order to suppress freedom of expression and to attempt to supress freedom of thought and belief.

In a way, it is much like conscription. A claim that the need of the state (presumably for the good of the community) trumps (jpun not intended) the individual freedoms and rights.

I suppose it can be appealling for people who feel a dire need for an appearance of unity, even if the price is high.

I am sure that it is a great argument for secularism.
 

omega2xx

Well-Known Member
I am aware that there is some controversy among the Abrahamics on this matter.

Many people consider the worship of Saints in some segments of Christianity to be a form of polytheism and therefore a deviation from supposedly necessary monotheism.

Some consider Trinitarianism itself a form of polytheism.

Islaam specifically seems to place a good deal of significance to keeping proper monotheism, to the point of insisting that politheism is automatically idolatry and, to the best of my understanding, insisting that we should understand that "God has no partners, no associates" and that it is not proper nor desirable to have intermediaries between a Muslim's relationship with God.

That seems at first glance to imply on disapproval of the regard for the Qur'an as scripture and even of worship of God, but apparently that is not what is meant even by the most extreme interpretations of those principles. Fair enough, although I find the language inaccurate, even misleading, particularly given how seriously Muslims seem to take the matter.

What I ask here is for some hint or help on why this specific (and IMO rather minor, as all matters that come too close to relying on the belief of the existence of a deity for their significance tend to be) matter is perceived as so significant by many Christians and Muslims.

Word has it that whole denominations refuse to acknowledge specific others as being "true" Christians / Muslims supposedly because they are Trinitarians or are understood for some other reason to be polytheistic. It is, literally, a deal breaker for many people, and I am told that it requires a considerable effort from some in order to keep their faith that others keep true to apparently important monotheism despite what is perceived as indications to the contrary.

Try as I might, I have so far failed to conceive better explanations for so much worry beyond two very weak reasons.

1. Peer pressure and social bonding needs.

People will often attempt to build a sense of community by producing issues and lending them significance, underscoring how misled the outsiders who fail to value it are.

Monotheism is as good an issue to be lent significance as any, I suppose, although I don't think that explains the intensity of the passions that some people have on the issue.

2. Pascal's Wager and its variants.

It is all-out contradictory that a sincere monotheist would lend any significance to this glorified joke that is the claim that you better "at least try" to believe "in the right God" in order to avoid "punishment in the afterlife". Yet so many people assure me that they mean it that I can't help but assume that they are sincere. Presumably polytheism, even when not conscious, would be grounds for such punishment.

It makes no sense. Then again Pascal's Wager was never to be taken seriously, as pretty much any serious analysis by any perspective will immediately show.

It makes no theological sense, no religious sense, no rational sense, no moral sense, lacks internal coherence and does not take anthropological reality into consideration. Yet variations of it keep popping up, presumably as significant arguments for belief even, from people that I have no reason to believe to be lying or consciously trolling as they do so.

Even taken together, those two factors seem way too weak to explain the insistence on monotheism and the passions attached to that insistence. Yet I have utterly failed to conceive of any other explanation.

Any ideas on what I may be missing? Maybe it is just that there are indeed many people who take Pascal's Wager seriously, unlikely as that seems to me?


Edited to add: after creating this thread it occurred to me that there may be a third, somewhat more understandable (but not much better) reason.

Belief in monotheism or monocracy may be appealling for people who find in it relief from the terrible stress that is dealing with the diversity of beliefs and ideological stances around.

In a way, it implies that there is no particular need to listen and deal to other people's perspectives, because it is all somehow part of God's plan and he will step in as he sees fit.

I think it is a particularly strong appeal among the Bahais and Ahmadiyya Mulsims, but by no means limited to them.

We are so fortunate to have someone in the forum mote intelligent than Pascal. Even if we explained it at a leve even a cave man could understand it, you still would not.

Thank you for confirming the accuracy of 1 Cor 2:14.
 

omega2xx

Well-Known Member
Just off-hand answer going by the title of the thread.

Monotheism: Promotes unity
Polytheism: Promotes diversity

I like how polytheism addresses life. Monotheism tends to fall on hierarchy and power. Polytheism seems more community.

So, why would monotheism be a good thing?

It would if we saw it as god bringing unity not god as all-powerful.

It would be necessary if we see mono/one as unity because it fosters us to work as a unit with a unit or one foundation as the source not higher or below-just the source that makes the unit run.

Monotheism only has one voice for the truth.

Polytheism has many voices and they all say different things. How do you determine which god is the best one to follow?
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Monotheism only has one voice for the truth.

Polytheism has many voices and they all say different things. How do you determine which god is the best one to follow?

You're making two incorrect assumptions here:
  1. That polytheism deals in Absolute Truths - it does not and;
  2. That polytheists must pick one god to worship which is wrong. The clue is in the term 'polytheist'!
 
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