Correct, but not only that. It exists independent of any mind. I.e. the Simulation Hypothesis (where the universe exists "in the mind" of a computer) is also not scientific.
That's a good expansion on the axiom.
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Correct, but not only that. It exists independent of any mind. I.e. the Simulation Hypothesis (where the universe exists "in the mind" of a computer) is also not scientific.
Of course, I could not know the answer to that.did it exist before you were born?
Wait...are you saying that RF admins aren't part of the collective divine consciousness?
I am not asking if it existed "for you" before your birth.Of course, I could not know the answer to that.
The universe being "orderly" is the assumption that the laws of nature are the same for any time and any location. Many religions rest on a temporary suspension of laws of nature, a.k.a. "magic" or "miracles".Don't understand how "orderly" jumped to magic. Unless you are talking about that which science doesn't address... the spiritual which, iMV, is also orderly, real and knowable. (below)
That results from 1. Science deals only with the natural world.Thus science doesn't deal with the spiritual world but simply doesn't address it
Are you even aware of what the blues do when the reds aren't around?! Harel can tell you!We admins are conscious? If that's anything like 'alert', I can lay that rumor to rest right here and now!
Irrelevant. The assertion is that the universe exists independent of mind. Unless one is tweaking the assertion to mean only some minds (eg mine) then the assertion fails, imo.I am not asking if it existed "for you" before your birth.
I am asking if it existed at all before your birth
I guess you were unclear in your question.Smarty pants. Extinguish all humans, so all human minds. Then, independent of mind, tell me how it can be claimed that the universe exists.
And you asked:In before someone inevitably demands that @Heyo define what he means by 'real' in his first axiom of science...
One can restate his first axiom as "The universe exists independent of our minds."
How can that be known?
When things can change without (explainable, scientific) reason we call that "chaotic".
What is the difference between one mind and multipe minds?Irrelevant. The assertion is that the universe exists independent of mind. Unless one is tweaking the assertion to mean only some minds (eg mine) then the assertion fails, imo.
@Sunstone hint: it's a lot of underhanded misuse of mod privileges. In short, devilry...Are you even aware of what the blues do when the reds aren't around?! Harel can tell you!
If your "that" didn't refer to him knowing my mind, you might want to clear that up - but you also might want to look up the definition of "axiom" before you embarrass yourself.
The universe exists independent of our minds."
I consider that distinction irrelevant to the assertion made above. You either remove "our minds" to make it "some minds" (which I realise is preposterous) or else the claim fails.What is the difference between one mind and multipe minds?
Unless you are claiming that all minds are sharing the same illusion and calling said shared illusion reality
I am sometimes, until I remember that I wouldn't be able to put the really annoying people on ignore...also, I need to maintain my good-guy profile and not do underhanded forumy things.@Sunstone Psshhh Harel's just jealous he's not a mod......
Soin a nutshell, you ask for something to be shown true, then refuse to even listen to it?I consider that distinction irrelevant to the assertion made above. You either remove "our minds" to make it "some minds" (which I realise is preposterous) or else the claim fails.
No I wasn't. Not even "getting" to that stage. All I am saying is that axioms require the human mind to hold them.
A human mind, specifically, do you think? Just figured I'd put on display that any of us can play at this game.No I wasn't. Not even "getting" to that stage. All I am saying is that axioms require the human mind to hold them.
Also, I have a life outside of RF
How can that be known?
DON'T FALL FOR IT @Harel13! You're kinda safe with me!Life outside RF? That's a vicious rumor someone started years ago in a shameless effort to lure attractive youth off RF and into the big cities where they might fall victim to being seduced by dirty old men. I know because I was the one who started the rumor.