Why the need to prove or disprove God?

[Vinayaka]

WHY? This is most likely going to go way off topic, but I'll try. It's a psychological question, not a philosophical one.

It's a fairly common theme on these forums, the atheist-theist argument, and this thread has a good chance of going straight back to that. Please note the bold 'why?

Myself and a few others feel no need to prove anything to anyone, with regard to our belief, or non-belief. So it's puzzling to me to see it so common, as it's outside of my paradigm.

To people who get into this debate ... What difference does it make? Do you feel that by convincing the other side that you're right, and they're wrong, that that will make the world a better place?

To people who don't enter this debate, and watch as outsiders ... what do you think causes it?

 

[Spirit of Light]

WHY? This is most likely going to go way off topic, but I'll try. It's a psychological question, not a philosophical one.

It's a fairly common theme on these forums, the atheist-theist argument, and this thread has a good chance of going straight back to that. Please note the bold 'why?

Myself and a few others feel no need to prove anything to anyone, with regard to our belief, or non-belief. So it's puzzling to me to see it so common, as it's outside of my paradigm.

To people who get into this debate ... What difference does it make? Do you feel that by convincing the other side that you're right, and they're wrong, that that will make the world a better place?

To people who don't enter this debate, and watch as outsiders ... what do you think causes it?

Before i used to believe i had to convince others that God is real, i do not hold this view anymore
People can believe what they want

 

[Unveiled Artist]

WHY? This is most likely going to go way off topic, but I'll try. It's a psychological question, not a philosophical one.

It's a fairly common theme on these forums, the atheist-theist argument, and this thread has a good chance of going straight back to that. Please note the bold 'why?

Myself and a few others feel no need to prove anything to anyone, with regard to our belief, or non-belief. So it's puzzling to me to see it so common, as it's outside of my paradigm.

To people who get into this debate ... What difference does it make? Do you feel that by convincing the other side that you're right, and they're wrong, that that will make the world a better place?

To people who don't enter this debate, and watch as outsiders ... what do you think causes it?

I'm inquisitive. Proof of god ideally comes in experience and it's easier to converse without debate if individuals put interested in each other's views. When experiences aren't shared by believers and nonbelievers aren't open minded it leaves an empty debate...if to call it that.

Also, a lot of believers mistake challenge for argument. I'm sure people who ask for proof really want to know cause they are curious and saying their opinions.

 

[Marcion]

If God could be proven (I'm not talking about experienced) I would not be interested in that God.
It would just be another part of the known reality.

Those who are stuck in the proven/unproven frame feel a bit sad.

 

[Altfish]

WHY? This is most likely going to go way off topic, but I'll try. It's a psychological question, not a philosophical one.

It's a fairly common theme on these forums, the atheist-theist argument, and this thread has a good chance of going straight back to that. Please note the bold 'why?

Myself and a few others feel no need to prove anything to anyone, with regard to our belief, or non-belief. So it's puzzling to me to see it so common, as it's outside of my paradigm.

To people who get into this debate ... What difference does it make? Do you feel that by convincing the other side that you're right, and they're wrong, that that will make the world a better place?

To people who don't enter this debate, and watch as outsiders ... what do you think causes it?

The reason I ask for proof of existence is that so many people try to justify their beliefs based on their god and the books it wrote..
Abortion, sex education, creationism, etc are all inflicted in the name of this person who seems to be illusive to the likes of myself.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

WHY? This is most likely going to go way off topic, but I'll try. It's a psychological question, not a philosophical one.

It's a fairly common theme on these forums, the atheist-theist argument, and this thread has a good chance of going straight back to that. Please note the bold 'why?

Myself and a few others feel no need to prove anything to anyone, with regard to our belief, or non-belief. So it's puzzling to me to see it so common, as it's outside of my paradigm.

To people who get into this debate ... What difference does it make? Do you feel that by convincing the other side that you're right, and they're wrong, that that will make the world a better place?

To people who don't enter this debate, and watch as outsiders ... what do you think causes it?

Coming from you specifically, it makes sense to me that you ask that question.

For the simple reason that I have never had a hindu come upto me, or to my house, to tell me that I should believe in the hindu gods.

But christians and muslims do that all the time. So whenever people tell me that I "should believe X", I'll ask them "why?".
I require rational justification for my beliefs. And that rational justification comes in the form of evidence.

I feel no need to "prove" that no gods exist (even for the simple reason that such a negative is logically impossible to prove).
But whenever someone comes upto me telling me I should believe a certain thing, I will ask about the rational justification that would underpin that belief.

And if that can't be given........


Also, those same christians and muslims who insist that I should believe what they believe... they also try to "force" their beliefs down our throats by getting them legislated. So that's another reason. Incidently, we have quite a hindu community in Belgium yet never have I heard any of them demand that Belgium makes it illegal to eat beef, for example...

Whenever believers try to legislate their religious beliefs, it always concerns christians or muslims.

 

[Sirona]

@Vinayaka I can only speak from an ex-Catholic's perspective but as a Catholic you have to believe the events in the Bible as if they were established facts. You're to rattle off that you do believe in them in the Nicene Creed at Mass every Sunday. And since God has "factually" intervened in the history of mankind, the existence of this God must be just as "factually" provable.

In Hinduism, atman is of the same kind that Brahman is. So you can "feel God" and make statements about what he's like depending on your realization and intuition. In run-off-the-mill Christianity, man belongs to the "material sphere" and God is "pure spirit", the "total other", so you can't "explore" God through Brahman experience in Christianity. Those who try run the risk of being quickly branded as heretics, or they are hidden in monasteries, so that they can have no influence on the world.

 

[ChristineM]

WHY? This is most likely going to go way off topic, but I'll try. It's a psychological question, not a philosophical one.

It's a fairly common theme on these forums, the atheist-theist argument, and this thread has a good chance of going straight back to that. Please note the bold 'why?

Myself and a few others feel no need to prove anything to anyone, with regard to our belief, or non-belief. So it's puzzling to me to see it so common, as it's outside of my paradigm.

To people who get into this debate ... What difference does it make? Do you feel that by convincing the other side that you're right, and they're wrong, that that will make the world a better place?

To people who don't enter this debate, and watch as outsiders ... what do you think causes it?

For me the why is....

When a theist invokes a god in their argument i require evidence for that argument to be satisfied. Without evidence of a point (in this case a god) then all you have is opinion and opinions don't win arguments

 

[Mock Turtle]

Since from a long time I've never felt such a need to prove or disprove the existence of God - recognising my own limitations and possibly that of others too. And similarly, although probably based on more evidence (that makes sense to me), I've never felt the need to search for any spiritual path, although I have looked at the claims of the more notable ones. I preferred wasting my time elsewhere - like psychology or philosophy.

To answer the question though, I suspect insecurity might be one reason as to why many want to prove the existence of God, even when so many are seemingly completely sure in their own minds as to such beliefs. I'm not sure that many feel a need to disprove God rather than just not believing such though. And one other reason for trying to prove the existence of God might be to do with any doctrines held by any particular faith - as to what will happen in the future - and where they might want to regale/inflict such on others who might not already have such beliefs. Which to me strikes of arrogance, but then that often does tend to come from commitment to many religious beliefs. To others it is no doubt just certainty in one's own beliefs and trust in what information one has believed.

 

[sun rise]

Why?

To me, it's a deep human need. When someone loves anything, there's a powerful urge to tell people how wonderful it is and how much meaning and joy it gives you.

It could be the healing power of non-GMO organic carrots, the wonderful taste of 20+ year old scotch, the healing power of painting the walls celadon green or whatever, it's part of human nature.

Why is it part of human nature? We want people to agree and validate our beliefs because we're partly herd animals with I suspect an evolutionary value if the transmitted belief improves survival value.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Myself and a few others feel no need to prove anything to anyone, with regard to our belief, or non-belief. So it's puzzling to me to see it so common, as it's outside of my paradigm.

To people who get into this debate ... What difference does it make? Do you feel that by convincing the other side that you're right, and they're wrong, that that will make the world a better place?

But there are many others who feel it is necessary, their books demand it, their Gods/sons/messengers/manifestations/mahdis demand it, and threaten punishment if people do not do that. It is a holy duty, which reserves a place in heaven for them. They are doing all this to save those who differ with them from eternal hell. The 700 skeletons (till now) in the Canadian Church school demonstrates their love.

I'm sure people who ask for proof really want to know cause they are curious and saying their opinions.

Atheists are not curious about God. They have considered all angles and rejected the idea.They believe that belief in God is ignorance. That is why they challenge theists.

 

[Brickjectivity]

To people who don't enter this debate, and watch as outsiders ... what do you think causes it?

I think it is misdirected compassion perhaps due to some pressure from people who pretend to be supremely spiritually connected. For example a minister may get on stage and talk about how they witness to everyone they meet, pray at 5am every day and occasionally see miracles from God in their lives. They may talk about what God says to them, and then they may challenge the (obviously not as spiritually connected) normal people in the audience to expect the same experiences. This is very common from what I have seen, though I have not traveled extensively. I have seen this in TV style churches, and I've seen it I think in some youtube videos of an imam or two. A person who makes their living being spiritual benefits greatly from being perceived as very spiritually connected. To do this they must set a standard higher than is possible for normal people to obtain or which is so difficult that the person wastes a lot of personal potential attempting it.

Thus people believe that they can and must prove God's existence. Believing one must, means believing it must be possible.

 

[Vinayaka]

It doesn't.

Sorry, I don't understand. What doesn't?

 

[Vinayaka]

The reason I ask for proof of existence is that so many people try to justify their beliefs based on their god and the books it wrote..
Abortion, sex education, creationism, etc are all inflicted in the name of this person who seems to be illusive to the likes of myself.

Thanks for the insight. That's reasonable, as you see it as their reason to justify the behaviours that you disagree with. Perhaps you think if you change their belief, it will follow that those behaviours get changed?

 

[Vinayaka]

For me the why is....

When a theist invokes a god in their argument i require evidence for that argument to be satisfied. Without evidence of a point (in this case a god) then all you have is opinion and opinions don't win arguments

So your entering the foray is only as a counter, something like self-defense? Have you ever had any success with it?

 

[Altfish]

Thanks for the insight. That's reasonable, as you see it as their reason to justify the behaviours that you disagree with. Perhaps you think if you change their belief, it will follow that those behaviours get changed?

I am happy with them holding their belief, just stop trying to inflict their beliefs on others, especially children

 

[Vinayaka]

But there are many others who feel it is necessary, their books demand it, their Gods/sons/messengers/manifestations/mahdis demand it, and threaten punishment if people do not do that. It is a holy duty, which reserves a place in heaven for them. They are doing all this to save those who differ with them from eternal hell. The 700 skeletons (till now) in the Canadian Church school demonstrates their love.Atheists are not curious about God. They have considered all angles and rejected the idea.They believe that belief in God is ignorance. That is why they challenge theists.

So in your view, the reason they do it is because their own doctrine tells them they have to go out and prove it? Can you provide quotes from the Bible or Koran, or even the Vedas or Hindu scripture where it explicitly demands of the followers to go prove God's existence to unbelievers?

 

[Vinayaka]

I am happy with them holding their belief, just stop trying to inflict their beliefs on others, especially children

I concur, in school settings for sure. But in families, the time spent with your kids is so massive, some belief kind of has to rub off. So I think it's a bit unrealistic to expect otherwise.

 

[Vinayaka]

I think it is misdirected compassion perhaps due to some pressure from people who pretend to be supremely spiritually connected. For example a minister may get on stage and talk about how they witness to everyone they meet, pray at 5am every day and occasionally see miracles from God in their lives. They may talk about what God says to them, and then they may challenge the (obviously not as spiritually connected) normal people in the audience to expect the same experiences. This is very common from what I have seen, though I have not traveled extensively. I have seen this in TV style churches, and I've seen it I think in some youtube videos of an imam or two. A person who makes their living being spiritual benefits greatly from being perceived as very spiritually connected. To do this they must set a standard higher than is possible for normal people to obtain or which is so difficult that the person wastes a lot of personal potential attempting it.

Thus people believe that they can and must prove God's existence. Believing one must, means believing it must be possible.

Thanks for your insights ... especially the 'misdirected compassion' part.

 

[stvdv]

Why the need to prove or disprove God?

WHY?

That seems to be a human thing, or maybe more precise a "scientist thing" to feel the need to prove or disprove things (though maybe all have this to a certain extend), that's how they improve their inventions and understanding of the world. So, it seems to me clear why they extend this when searching for God. They just do what they are good in AND what they are used to normally do, when solving something they don't know.

Once you know/experienced God, the need to prove or disprove God does not arise anymore

A human being has various tools at his disposal. It starts with: ego, mind, intellect, memory, 5 outer senses. Then there are emotion, intuition, feeling, conscience, heart. Next there are also the 5 inner senses and the eye of Wisdom, and probably much more, but these I know. Not all are good in all of them. Some are good using their worldly tools, others are good in using their emotional tools and again others do best using their Spiritual tools. So, all people naturally choose those tools which feel best for them, that seems all logical to me.

Those who are busy with "prove and disprove things" are used to use predominantly ego, mind, intellect, 5 outer senses and memory. Others use emotion, feeling, intuition, introspection. And then there are others who use the inner senses or even the eye of Wisdom. To understand the material world it's usually sufficient to use our ego, mind, intellect, 5 inner senses and memory. To solve emotional problems they won't be sufficient, and you need to get in touch with your feelings, emotions, intuition and do some introspection. And to solve spiritual problems you usually need to develop the 5 inner senses and your intuition and preferably your eye of Wisdom. Though, by the Grace of God, it can be Granted to you in a sec anyway. And Love seems to be like a magic wand whatever path you choose.

So, it makes sense to me, that those who are good with their mind and intellect will start with using these and try the scientific way to prove and disprove God. But the spiritual experts (Sages and Saints) teach that those won't be of much help on the spiritual path by themselves. You better develop your heart and feelings and cleanse your mind and heart as well.
@stvdvRF