Why So Much Trinity Bashing?

[walt]

I came not for the healthy but for the sick. LOL

To make it short, I used to have the Trinity booklet from the WT that I studied, and I believed in the things I was learning, but soon after, I became an atheist. After coming out of atheism, I decided to restudy the booklet, but this time, looking up their references and comparing the actual quotes. What I found stunned and angered me. I found lies upon lies. I love people including the JWs. So, I never hold back the things I learn.

You sound like a very nice person. God bless you.

I would like to be your friend in Christ Jesus and his Father, so we believe differently, I hope that would be okay?

 

[walt]

Do you know that the scripture shows that Jesus says if you pray to him and ask him anything, he will do it?



John 14: 14 reads,

• If you ask me for anything in my name, I will do it.

In the word-for-word translation, it reads this way.

• 14 ἐάν if ever τι anything αἰτήσητέ YOU should ask με me ἐν in τῷ the ὀνόματί name μου of me τοῦτο this ποιήσω. I shall do.

Acts 4:10,12 and 22:16

• “Let it be known to all of YOU and to all the people of Israel, that in the name of Jesus Christ the Naz·a·rene´, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead… there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.’ ‘…Rise, get baptized and wash your sins away by your calling upon his name.’”

Jesus said at John 6:45:

• “Everyone that has heard from the Father and has learned comes to me.”

If you have learned from Jehovah, you are commanded to “come to” Jesus. Have you come to Jesus by asking Him to wash away your sins and to give you eternal life? How can you “listen to” Jesus voice if you don’t communicate with Him in prayer? How can you receive “everlasting life” if you don’t ask Jesus to give it to you? Jesus said at John 14:6:

• “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

The scriptures I find are no better than yours. I think it is very challenging to figure anything out. Especially when so many Bibles disagree in the wording! It makes it hard to find agreement, but I know with perseverance it can be done. Maybe if we put our heads together?

I have throughout the last 20 years, I don't know what to do about doubts.. So I just break the doubt into pieces, and I take each piece and see what the Bible says and of course I pray, so with each little piece of doubt, I keep working on it until the doubt is zero. And actually over time I think of little things too, that make me feel better in doing what Jesus says.

 

[walt]

The scriptures I find are no better than yours. I think it is very challenging to figure anything out. Especially when so many Bibles disagree in the wording! It makes it hard to find agreement, but I know with perseverance it can be done. Maybe if we put our heads together?

I have throughout the last 20 years, I don't know what to do about doubts.. So I just break the doubt into pieces, and I take each piece and see what the Bible says and of course I pray, so with each little piece of doubt, I keep working on it until the doubt is zero. And actually over time I think of little things too, that make me feel better in doing what Jesus says.

Thank You for your Kindness

 

[walt]

I came not for the healthy but for the sick. LOL

To make it short, I used to have the Trinity booklet from the WT that I studied, and I believed in the things I was learning, but soon after, I became an atheist. After coming out of atheism, I decided to restudy the booklet, but this time, looking up their references and comparing the actual quotes. What I found stunned and angered me. I found lies upon lies. I love people including the JWs. So, I never hold back the things I learn.

You sound like a very nice person. God bless you.

Sometimes I ask myself, what is the most powerful Question I could ask myself, so that when I get the answer, I can be the best person I can possibly be for Jesus and His Father. I look for an answer that will motivate me to the highest degree and make me feel great!

I ask questions and get answers directly from Jesus and The Father's word, which provides for me endless rewards!

 

[Hockeycowboy]

This from Wikipedia concerns me about Jehovah's Witnesses.

Jehovah's Witnesses - Wikipedia

Jehovah's Witnesses' doctrines are established by the Governing Body.[287][288] The denomination does not tolerate dissent over doctrines and practices;[289] members who openly disagree with the group's teachings are expelled and shunned.[205] Witness publications strongly discourage followers from questioning doctrine and counsel received from the Governing Body, reasoning that it is to be trusted as part of "God's organization".[289] It also warns members to "avoid independent thinking", claiming such thinking "was introduced by Satan the Devil"[290][291] and would "cause division".[292] Those who openly disagree with official teachings are condemned as apostates who are "mentally diseased".[211][293]....

Jehovah's Witness publications state that consensus of faith aids unity, and deny that it restricts individuality or imagination.[302] Historian James Irvin Lichti has rejected the description of the denomination as "totalitarian".[303] Sociologist Rodney Stark states that Jehovah's Witness leaders are "not always very democratic" and that members "are expected to conform to rather strict standards," but adds that "enforcement tends to be very informal, sustained by the close bonds of friendship within the group", and that Witnesses see themselves as "part of the power structure rather than subject to it."[74] Sociologist Andrew Holden states that most members who join millenarian movements such as Jehovah's Witnesses have made an informed choice,[304] but that defectors "are seldom allowed a dignified exit",[211] and describes the administration as autocratic.[287]

Some Jehovah's Witnesses describe themselves to academics as "Physically In, Mentally Out" (PIMO); these individuals privately question certain doctrine but remain inside the organization to keep contact with their friends and family.[175

Anyway, I ask you to think for yourself when it comes to whatever is the rationale that independent thinking was introduced by Satan.

I’m glad that this article has references from JW sources to support most of these claims.
I would suggest that these be read. “From the horse’s mouth”, as they say.

Many of the other references I noticed are not from JW sources, but tend to be biased, as the references are from those who have either been disfellowshipped, or are hostile to JW’s.

If you had lived in Jesus’ day and wanted to learn the truth about Him, would you have asked the Pharisees? Or Judas?

All of our meetings & teachings are open to the public. Grief, we go house-to-house! If we weren’t confident in our message, and in having God’s & Jesus’ support, do you think we would do that, not knowing who we will speak with? Not knowing who’s behind the door?

Have a good day.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

You could find 100 scriptures that seem to prove a belief. So can I find 100 scriptures. This could go on forever.

Yes, you are right, walt. And even some of the ones we could use to support Jehovah as the true God, which view Jesus upheld, most translations have removed His name; thereby creating even more confusion!

Did Jesus know this would happen? When you read Jesus’ prophetic words at Matthew 7:21-23…foretelling that “powerful works” would be performed by those claiming to be His followers, but it would be without His backing … we can see misleading Satanic influences. So I’d say yes, Jesus knew. Errant doctrines would easily arise.

But Jesus, in His God-given wisdom, cut through all that never-ending doctrinal searching, by saying (@ John 13:34,35) ‘look at how those claiming to be my disciples love.’

“All will know” by looking at how Jesus’ followers behave & treat others. Despite godless (governmental, social, etc.) influences. Once that search is satisfied, then a person should look at what the denomination teaches.


How do the churches fair, in this regard? What is their reputation?

We know ours.

 

[walt]

Yes, you are right, walt. And even some of the ones we could use to support Jehovah as the true God, which view Jesus upheld, most translations have removed His name; thereby creating even more confusion!

Did Jesus know this would happen? When you read Jesus’ prophetic words at Matthew 7:21-23…foretelling that “powerful works” would be performed by those claiming to be His followers, but it would be without His backing … we can see misleading Satanic influences. So I’d say yes, Jesus knew. Errant doctrines would easily arise.

But Jesus, in His God-given wisdom, cut through all that never-ending doctrinal searching, by saying (@ John 13:34,35) ‘look at how those claiming to be my disciples love.’

“All will know” by looking at how Jesus’ followers behave & treat others. Despite godless (governmental, social, etc.) influences. Once that search is satisfied, then a person should look at what the denomination teaches.


How do the churches fair, in this regard? What is their reputation?

We know ours.

I really feel, I know you would agree, kindness is the best of everything for everybody!

 

[SLPCCC]

Jesus also did not say to pray to him, nor the Spirit of God - which would be the case if these two were indeed ‘God’.

I know it’s plain and simple but we must remember that the delusion is a STRONG ONE, as it is written:

• ‘God will send them a strong delusion such that they will believe the lie’

We cannot get away from this as a FACT and we see it in action right here among the majority posters. Should we believe that it could be any other way - and this is authoritatively true:

• ‘The word that comes out of my (YHWH) mouth will by no means return to me until it has achieved that which it was sent out to achieve’

What do you think about this?

John 14: 14 reads,

• If you ask me for anything in my name, I will do it.

Look it up in a word-for-word translation, it reads this way.

• 14 ἐάν if ever τι anything αἰτήσητέ YOU should ask με me ἐν in τῷ the ὀνόματί name μου of me τοῦτο this ποιήσω. I shall do.

Acts 4:10,12 and 22:16

• “Let it be known to all of YOU and to all the people of Israel, that in the name of Jesus Christ the Naz·a·rene´, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead… there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.’ ‘…Rise, get baptized and wash your sins away by your calling upon his name.’”

Jesus said at John 6:45:

• “Everyone that has heard from the Father and has learned comes to me.”
• “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

 

[Soapy]

​

Psalm 82​

A psalm of Asaph.​

​

1 God presides in the great assembly; he renders judgment among the “gods”: 2“How long will you a defend the unjust​

and show partiality to the wicked? 3 Defend the weak and the fatherless; uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed.​

4 Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked. 5“The ‘gods’ know nothing, they understand nothing.​

They walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken. 6“I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’​

7 But you will die like mere mortals; you will fall like every other ruler.” 8 Rise up, O God, judge the earth, for all the nations are your inheritance.​

There are two main views:

1) The “gods” are supernatural beings who rule under God. says, “God presides in the great assembly; he gives judgment among the gods.” Some interpret this passage as God warning that those in the divine council who continue making unjust decisions will die “like mere mortals” and “fall like all other rulers”

2) The “gods” are human magistrates, judges, and rulers who have been granted authority in the earth. In this view, the whole point of is that earthly judges must act with impartiality and true justice, because even judges must stand someday before the Judge. 6 and 7 warn human magistrates that they, too, must be judged: “I said, ‘You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High.’ But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler.” According to this view, God has appointed men to positions of authority in which they are considered as gods among the people.

When Jesus quotes this Psalm, Jesus’ is pointing to this: you charge me with blasphemy based on my use of the title “Son of God”; yet your own Scriptures apply the same term to others besides God. If those who hold a divinely appointed office or those who have a divine position in the spiritual realm can be considered “gods,” how much more can the One whom God has chosen and sent.

Once again, these are not gods who create. These are rulers.

‘Gods’ means ‘Mighty Ones’…. ’Rulers’…the ones endowed with authority over others, makers and keepers and administrators of the law.

And though there are MANY MIGHTY ONES in Heaven (Angels) and in creation (Humanity) FOR US (true believers) there is only ONE who is ALMIGHTY - The God over all whom are called Gods - The Mightiest one over all who are classed as ‘Mighty’.

Majesties (Kings and Princes), Magistrates, Judges, Priests and High Priests, Teachers of the Law, Keepers of the Law: ‘Police Officers’, etc.

 

[walt]

Do you know that the scripture shows that Jesus says if you pray to him and ask him anything, he will do it?



John 14: 14 reads,

• If you ask me for anything in my name, I will do it.

In the word-for-word translation, it reads this way.

• 14 ἐάν if ever τι anything αἰτήσητέ YOU should ask με me ἐν in τῷ the ὀνόματί name μου of me τοῦτο this ποιήσω. I shall do.

Acts 4:10,12 and 22:16

• “Let it be known to all of YOU and to all the people of Israel, that in the name of Jesus Christ the Naz·a·rene´, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead… there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.’ ‘…Rise, get baptized and wash your sins away by your calling upon his name.’”

Jesus said at John 6:45:

• “Everyone that has heard from the Father and has learned comes to me.”

If you have learned from Jehovah, you are commanded to “come to” Jesus. Have you come to Jesus by asking Him to wash away your sins and to give you eternal life? How can you “listen to” Jesus voice if you don’t communicate with Him in prayer? How can you receive “everlasting life” if you don’t ask Jesus to give it to you? Jesus said at John 14:6:

• “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

Could we share strategies in how we both find as much truth as possible in agreement?

 

[Brian2]

Please explain how Psalm 22:10 says that Jesus became a "godman" or God in the flesh equal to the other two supposed members of a Trinity?. Thank you for referencing that Psalm though.

I should have put an apostrophy after Jesus. "He became Jesus' God when Jesus became a man, as Psalm 22:10 tells us."
Psalm 22:10 From birth I was cast upon You; from my mother’s womb You have been my God.

So we can see that Jesus Father became His God when Jesus became a man.

 

[Brian2]

For example.. Say a person has a belief in the Trinity.
Does Jesus and his Father give us details that instruct us to believe this way?

I too have a belief and every detail is explained by Jesus and his Father combined, to support my belief.

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. --John 3:16

Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. --John 17:3

A voice came from the cloud, saying, “This is my Son, whom I have chosen; listen to him.” --luke 9:35

While he was still speaking, a bright cloud covered them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!” --Matthew 17:5

Not all scriptures can explain fully, every detail of a person's belief 100%.

If you have any suggestions or a better way? I am open to learning anything that will help me better understand Jesus words.

I thought you are a Jehovah's Witness.
Are all JW beliefs explained in the Bible or is the Bible explained to JWs by the Governing Body?
My belief that Jesus is the creator and was not created is shown in the Bible.
John 1:2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.

 

[SLPCCC]

Could we share strategies in how we both find as much truth as possible in agreement?

Sure, the best strategies are found in scripture. You will know them by their fruits is a phrase from the Bible, spoken by Jesus in Matthew 7:1612.

​

• 16 You will know them by their fruits. . . 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

When I apply this, I usually look for honesty as a good fruit and deceit as a bad fruit. A tree that is producing bad fruit cannot be trusted. Jesus said that "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So, this tree cannot change. Once a bad tree it is always a bad tree (unless it's a person who truly repents).

If we consider a prophet, organization, church, religion, book, preacher, or even a person as a tree and apply this strategy, it can help us make wise decisions. In verse 15 of this same chapter, it warns that this tree (false prophets, organization, church, religion, book, or even a person) can "come to you in sheep’s clothing". So, we need to expect to see good fruits and be able to see through its good fruits in order to see the bad fruits.

For example: When I studied the Trinity Booklet from the WT, the person who gave it to me was a very good person (good fruit). But when I looked up references in the booklet, I found lies in it, as they misquoted most of their sources (bad fruit). As a result, this helped me make the wise decision of not trusting the publishers (the Bad Tree producing bad fruit).

I hope this helps as a start.

 

[SLPCCC]

Yes, you are right, walt. And even some of the ones we could use to support Jehovah as the true God, which view Jesus upheld, most translations have removed His name; thereby creating even more confusion!

We know ours.

If Jesus and the apostles had thought it essential to use the name Jehovah, the Gospels would have used the name Jehovah. The Gospels in the New Testament did not use the name Jehovah not one. Jesus and the apostles did not think using the name Jehovah. Whenever Jesus talks about God’s “name,” that name is always Father, not Jehovah.

In the model prayer that Jesus taught his disciples to pray notice how that prayer begins in both Matthew and Luke:

“Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified” (Matt. 6:9)
“Father, let your name be sanctified” (Luke 11:2)

Notice that Jesus did not teach his disciples to address the Father in prayer as “Jehovah God,” as Jehovah’s Witnesses routinely do, but simply as “Father” or “our Father.” Jesus refers to the “Father” ten times in the immediate context of the Prayer in Matthew 6:1-18 and three times in Luke 11:1-13. The Father is not called “God” or “Lord” even once in either of these passages. If context means anything, the name that Jesus wants his disciples to use and for the honor of which they are to pray is the name Father.

In John 5:43, Jesus stated, “I have come in the name of my Father”. Here again, Jesus does not use the name Jehovah at all. Jesus refers to the “Father” five times in the immediate context (John 5:36-45), never to Jehovah, though he does refer to “God” twice in this passage (5:42, 44).

The evidence is overwhelming that the “name” that Jesus revealed to his disciples was not Jehovah but the name Father. Jews occasionally referred to God as Father before Jesus came, but Jesus was unique in making this practice central to the faith life of his disciples. In none of the Gospels does Jesus ever express any concern or expectation that his disciples will use the divine name.

The name that was the focus of the apostles’ preaching and teaching was the name Jesus, not the name Jehovah. The name of Jesus is in fact the dominant focus of the preaching and teaching of the apostles throughout the Book of Acts. There are 28 distinct references to Jesus’ “name” in Acts (2:38; 3:6, 16; 4:7, 10, 12, 17, 18, 30; 5:28, 40, 41; 8:12, 16; 9:15, 16, 27, 28 [29 KJV]; 10:43, 48; 15:26; 16:18; 19:5, 13, 17; 21:13; 22:16; 26:9).

 

[SLPCCC]

If you had lived in Jesus’ day and wanted to learn the truth about Him, would you have asked the Pharisees? Or Judas?

All of our meetings & teachings are open to the public. Grief, we go house-to-house! If we weren’t confident in our message, and in having God’s & Jesus’ support, do you think we would do that, not knowing who we will speak with? Not knowing who’s behind the door?

Have a good day.

I find your comments interesting. I remember a JW telling me, "If you want to know that praying to saints is wrong, would you go to a Catholic book?" He answered for me and said, "No!" Then he offered me a magazine on how Catholicism was wrong. Here, it seems, you are saying the opposite, "Go to the horse's mouth." I think both sides should be heard, including neutral sources (three is better than one). It's good to compare and contrast from all three remaining neutral. I wouldn't just go to the horse's mouth (not that that's what you are saying). They or it can be lying.

 

[Soapy]

What do you think about this?

John 14: 14 reads,

• If you ask me for anything in my name, I will do it.

Look it up in a word-for-word translation, it reads this way.

• 14 ἐάν if ever τι anything αἰτήσητέ YOU should ask με me ἐν in τῷ the ὀνόματί name μου of me τοῦτο this ποιήσω. I shall do.

Well, it must be pointed out that only in the gospel of John do we get this type of saying. It must be questioned as to why only ‘John’ expresses the request directive.

But reading what it says (John 14:14) “In my name” means:

• ‘With integrity, truthful, with reverential honesty, in righteousness, in unselfishness… etc’ - “As Jesus Christ would do…”

It is not as simple as adding, “… In Jesus’ name” to the end of a prayer TO GOD; The Father… as appears to be the manner of prayers today.

However, I feel that Jesus is saying that anything PRAYED FOR ‘in his NAME (as above)’ he will pass onto the Father and HE (the Father) will give it to the prayerer (?) or do it.

I would note that nothing of selfishness, nothing of personal desire, nothing irreverent, nothing unrighteous (revenge, gain, whims… etc), is entertained by God.

All requests to God are done through PRAYERS - Jesus tells to pray to the Father; pray to God. We are never instructed or commanded to pray to Jesus!!!

We ARE instructed to pray TO the Father IN JESUS’ name… (what does ‘in his name’ mean (see above))

When this kind of uncertainty of scripture directive is come across, I look to what it really means or MEANT TO REALLY MEAN. Could the verses have been altered to claim that hesus is claiming glory for himself (e.g. ‘Ask me anything and I will give it to you’.

You will notice that earlier, in John 14:16, Jesus says that he will ask the Father and He (the Father) will give the believers a new (another in place of him, Jesus) advocate to remain with them. Why does Jesus here ‘asks the Father’ but later says ‘Ask me’.

Acts 4:10,12 and 22:16

• “Let it be known to all of YOU and to all the people of Israel, that in the name of Jesus Christ the Naz·a·rene´, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead… there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.’ ‘…Rise, get baptized and wash your sins away by your calling upon his name.’”

Again, ‘the name of’ means ‘in the style, the manner, the method, the way of’ the person who’s name is stated.

‘I have come IN THE NAME OF THE KING’… The king sent me and I have come to do as he would have done….
‘I am speaking in the name of my Father’ - I’m speaking what I Father would speak!

‘In Jesus’ name’: What Jesus’ REPRESENTS.
There is no Salvation unless you are what Jesus represented: Truth, honesty, integrity, reverence to the Father, selflessness, righteousness, …’the Name’ of Jesus Christ.

Remember, the noun ‘Jesus’, is actually, “YESHUA” (‘Joshua’) so it is not the personal moniker since there are and were many people called ‘Joshua’ (Yeshua) even before and after the one from Nazareth, son of Mary, the virgin.

And… The son of Man taken up to Heaven and seated next to the Father is… GIVEN ANOTHER NAME GREATER THAN THAT OF THE ANGELS…

Jesus said at John 6:45:

• “Everyone that has heard from the Father and has learned comes to me.”
• “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

Yes, this is true. Jesus Christ is the MEDIATOR, the gatekeeper to access to the Father. No one may access the Father except they go through Jesus - that Jesus allows them access. Therefore, this adds fuel to the claim that we must pray IN THE NAME of Jesus in order to access the generosity of the Father.

 

[SLPCCC]

Well, it must be pointed out that only in the gospel of John do we get this type of saying. It must be questioned as to why only ‘John’ expresses the request directive.

But reading what it says (John 14:14) “In my name” means:

• ‘With integrity, truthful, with reverential honesty, in righteousness, in unselfishness… etc’ - “As Jesus Christ would do…”

It is not as simple as adding, “… In Jesus’ name” to the end of a prayer TO GOD; The Father… as appears to be the manner of prayers today.

However, I feel that Jesus is saying that anything PRAYED FOR ‘in his NAME (as above)’ he will pass onto the Father and HE (the Father) will give it to the prayerer (?) or do it.

I would note that nothing of selfishness, nothing of personal desire, nothing irreverent, nothing unrighteous (revenge, gain, whims… etc), is entertained by God.

All requests to God are done through PRAYERS - Jesus tells to pray to the Father; pray to God. We are never instructed or commanded to pray to Jesus!!!

We ARE instructed to pray TO the Father IN JESUS’ name… (what does ‘in his name’ mean (see above))

When this kind of uncertainty of scripture directive is come across, I look to what it really means or MEANT TO REALLY MEAN. Could the verses have been altered to claim that hesus is claiming glory for himself (e.g. ‘Ask me anything and I will give it to you’.

You will notice that earlier, in John 14:16, Jesus says that he will ask the Father and He (the Father) will give the believers a new (another in place of him, Jesus) advocate to remain with them. Why does Jesus here ‘asks the Father’ but later says ‘Ask me’.


Again, ‘the name of’ means ‘in the style, the manner, the method, the way of’ the person who’s name is stated.

‘I have come IN THE NAME OF THE KING’… The king sent me and I have come to do as he would have done….
‘I am speaking in the name of my Father’ - I’m speaking what I Father would speak!

‘In Jesus’ name’: What Jesus’ REPRESENTS.
There is no Salvation unless you are what Jesus represented: Truth, honesty, integrity, reverence to the Father, selflessness, righteousness, …’the Name’ of Jesus Christ.

Remember, the noun ‘Jesus’, is actually, “YESHUA” (‘Joshua’) so it is not the personal moniker since there are and were many people called ‘Joshua’ (Yeshua) even before and after the one from Nazareth, son of Mary, the virgin.

And… The son of Man taken up to Heaven and seated next to the Father is… GIVEN ANOTHER NAME GREATER THAN THAT OF THE ANGELS…

Yes, this is true. Jesus Christ is the MEDIATOR, the gatekeeper to access to the Father. No one may access the Father except they go through Jesus - that Jesus allows them access. Therefore, this adds fuel to the claim that we must pray IN THE NAME of Jesus in order to access the generosity of the Father.

So, you don't believe all scriptures, only the ones that agree with your views. It seems like you are cherry-picking. If I show you another scripture you won't accept it because it won't agree with your view.

 

[SLPCCC]

Many of the other references I noticed are not from JW sources, but tend to be biased, as the references are from those who have either been disfellowshipped, or are hostile to JW’s.

Which ones are biased? How can you tell the one that are from disfellowshipped, or are hostile to JW’s? It's hard for me to tell. It wouldn't be the ones that just disagree, correct? So how can you tell? Please share.

 

[Soapy]

If Jesus and the apostles had thought it essential to use the name Jehovah, the Gospels would have used the name Jehovah. The Gospels in the New Testament did not use the name Jehovah not one. Jesus and the apostles did not think using the name Jehovah. Whenever Jesus talks about God’s “name,” that name is always Father, not Jehovah.

In the model prayer that Jesus taught his disciples to pray notice how that prayer begins in both Matthew and Luke:

“Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified” (Matt. 6:9)
“Father, let your name be sanctified” (Luke 11:2)

Notice that Jesus did not teach his disciples to address the Father in prayer as “Jehovah God,” as Jehovah’s Witnesses routinely do, but simply as “Father” or “our Father.” Jesus refers to the “Father” ten times in the immediate context of the Prayer in Matthew 6:1-18 and three times in Luke 11:1-13. The Father is not called “God” or “Lord” even once in either of these passages. If context means anything, the name that Jesus wants his disciples to use and for the honor of which they are to pray is the name Father.

In John 5:43, Jesus stated, “I have come in the name of my Father”. Here again, Jesus does not use the name Jehovah at all. Jesus refers to the “Father” five times in the immediate context (John 5:36-45), never to Jehovah, though he does refer to “God” twice in this passage (5:42, 44).

The evidence is overwhelming that the “name” that Jesus revealed to his disciples was not Jehovah but the name Father. Jews occasionally referred to God as Father before Jesus came, but Jesus was unique in making this practice central to the faith life of his disciples. In none of the Gospels does Jesus ever express any concern or expectation that his disciples will use the divine name.

The name that was the focus of the apostles’ preaching and teaching was the name Jesus, not the name Jehovah. The name of Jesus is in fact the dominant focus of the preaching and teaching of the apostles throughout the Book of Acts. There are 28 distinct references to Jesus’ “name” in Acts (2:38; 3:6, 16; 4:7, 10, 12, 17, 18, 30; 5:28, 40, 41; 8:12, 16; 9:15, 16, 27, 28 [29 KJV]; 10:43, 48; 15:26; 16:18; 19:5, 13, 17; 21:13; 22:16; 26:9).

I would like to submit a suggestion that the writers of the gospels in the New Testament were fuelled by the belief that the name of the Father must not be spoken (or written, as anyone reading it would be forced to pronounce it).

No one should disagree that IT WAS THE ACTUAL APOSTLES who wrote the gospels associated with their name bug rather, writers many many years later. Therefore Jesus could well have defied the Jews and pronounced the name of his HEAVENLY Father BUT the writers CHOSE NOT TO WRITE IT and REPLACED the name with ‘God’ or ‘Father’ instead.

It really needs to be asked WHY Jesus would have any compunction in calling the Father by His name - he did not fear the Jews nor would ever have brought the name of God into disrepute as others might have done.

Notice that in the Old Testament the name of God is used EXTENSIVELY (please understand that ‘LORD’ (all caps) is ‘YHWH’ and should be read as such bug even moderate to latter day religious believers (JW being examples of exceptions) REFUSE to say the name even when simply READING the scriptures which carry no disreputable element!

TRINITARIAN Christian’s even go to the extent of claiming that GOD (The Father) DOES NOT HAVE SUCH A NAME AS ‘YHWH’, which absolutely DENIES the claim OF YHWH that:

• ‘This is my name for all eternity’

The reason trinitarians deny the name of God is that it identifies the Father as God alone and therefore the Son and ‘holy Spirit’ cannot be God, also. Denying the name means they can call the Father, and the Son, and the Spirit, ‘God’ without having to identify any of them BY NAME.
And it is clear that the Son is called ‘Yeshua’ (Joshua / Jesus) and the Spirit is NEVER given a name …

The Spirit of God (called, ‘The Holy Spirit’ and worse, ‘the holy GHOST’!!!?? What is a GHOST?) has no name because it is the Spirit of YHWH, the Spirit of God, the Spirit of the Father… The Spirit of a man does not have a name, just as the Spirit of God does not have a name… both are ‘OF’ their respective NAMED OWNER - God or man.

 

[metis]

I believe in God, so I think that Jesus created a spiritual church unlike an organized religion or cult.

Jesus called on the Twelve and gave them the power to make decisions and lead the Church in his absence, and that's quite clearly an organization that continues to exist today.