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Featured Why should we love God?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Trailblazer, Apr 16, 2022.

  1. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    The idea for this thread came from what I was discussing with @Truthseeker on another thread.

    A verse in the Qur'an about a possible good outcome for people from all religions

    Why is it always our fault if we don't love God enough? Why does that have to mean that we are in some way deficient? What did God ever do to prove His love to us? Oh, I know, He sent His only Son, but big deal. He did not lose His only Son because Jesus is with God in Heaven now.

    God also sent other Messengers, but what did God do to sacrifice anything for us? Nothing. Sure, the Messengers of God sacrificed a lot, but they are not God.

    Then there is all the suffering in the world that God created and God created a world in which He knew humans would suffer, and worse yet, some people suffer much more than others. Logically speaking, God is responsible for creating such a world so God is left holding the bag.

    It even says that this world is a storehouse of suffering in the Baha’i Writings: Storehouse of Suffering quote

    I do not understand why Baha’is cannot understand that God is responsible for this suffering since God created this world. Please note that I am not referring to the suffering the results from human free will choices, as I believe humans are responsible for that suffering, God is not responsible for it.

    Please spare me the religious apologetic about how suffering is ‘good for us” and how we should be grateful to God for suffering, or how people really don’t have to suffer, implying that their suffering is all their fault because they cannot be more detached. Save this for another day. Nothing could be more insensitive to say to people who are suffering.

    I am looking for a reason to love God, other than what the scriptures say about how good God is, and I am coming up empty-handed. :(

    Maybe my downfall is that I am logical rather than just believing what I want to believe based upon scriptures.
     
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  2. Rival

    Rival Divine Adoratrice of Amun
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    I can't really explain it in words. I love God because He's always there for me and I can rely on Him. I also become angry and yell at Him at times. Job is a good example of why simplistic explanations don't work and we may never understand why certain suffering happens. God pulls you through.
     
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  3. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Veteran Member
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    Who is "we?" Baha'is? You and the mouse in your pocket?

    How am I to speak intelligently about why you don't love God enough?
     
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  4. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Sometimes I feel that way too, that God is there for me, and I can rely upon God, but of course I could ever know that so it is just a belief. I also get angry and yell at God at times but much less so than I used to.

    No, I do not think we can understand why there is suffering in the world, not in this life, but I think we will understand in the next life. Until then it requires faith to endure.

    But even though I 'believe' God is there for me, that is not a reason for me to love God, because I still suffer and there is still suffering in this world and not all people can endure as well as others. Not only that, but animals suffer and die, and there is no religious apologetic that will cover that.
     
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  5. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    "We" is everyone who does not love God enough, according to what Abrahamic scriptures say about how we should love God.

    No, I don't expect you to know why I don't love God enough. I just threw it out there for discussion because some people might have some reasons why I should love God, reasons I have not thought of.
     
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  6. sun rise

    sun rise Śvāna Dharma
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    I've quoted this before so forgive me if you've read it. There is a story, perhaps real, about St. Teresa that goes:

    “Once, when she was travelling to one of her convents, St. Teresa of Ávila was knocked off her donkey and fell into the mud, injuring her leg. “Lord,” she said, “you couldn’t have picked a worse time for this to happen. Why would you let this happen?”

    And the response in prayer that she heard was, “That is how I treat my friends.”

    Teresa answered, “And that is why you have so few of them!”
     
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  7. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Forgive me if I am being slow, but is there a point to the story?
    God has few friends?
     
  8. Kenny

    Kenny Face to face with my Father
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    Why do you see it as "a fault?" God doesn't. He loves us anyways. As a matter of fact, someone said it this way, "We love Him, because He first loved us."

    He is just the one who beat us to the draw, so to speak.

    I'm not sure about this question. I think it is pretty obvious that the whole of the world is deficient.

    And we really haven't lost anything either. We will also be in Heaven at the appointed time. If anything I gained something

    Well, think of it this way.

    A CEO billionaire that builds everything from scratch... does that man ever relinquish his position, his rights, his benefits, his office, his home and everything else to live to benefit humanity? There are some, I'm sure... but they are exalted in the eyes of humanity for their sacrifice.

    The Word who created all things, owned all the silver and the gold, and was sitting on the throne... but then...

    "For he, who had always been God by nature, did not cling to his prerogatives as God’s equal, but stripped himself of all privilege by consenting to be a slave by nature and being born as mortal man. And, having become man, he humbled himself by living a life of utter obedience, even to the extent of dying, and the death he died was the death of a common criminal."

    He became our servant, washed our feet, went to Hell and paid for our errors and saved us.

    I think that is quite an achievement
     
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  9. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    Well since God is a conceptual aspect of the psyche, its not too far fetched to say its a form of loving one's self using the phenomenon of introspection.
     
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  10. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I do not believe that God became a man.
    I believe that Jesus was a Manifestation of God, not God incarnate, and that God, the Eternal Essence, always remains hidden from us.

    John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

    1 John 4:12 No one has seen God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us.

    John 5:37 And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.

    1 Timothy 6:16 who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.
     
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  11. Sgt. Pepper

    Sgt. Pepper RF's resident Beatlemaniac. ☮ and ❤

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    I don't love God, and I see no reason to love him. And when I say "God," I'm referring to the God of the Bible. I've talked about why I despise the Christian God in some of my earlier posts, so I don't feel it's necessary to repeat myself in this thread. I've also provided several examples of his abhorrent behavior towards humanity, so I won't comment on that in this thread, either. With that being said, I wanted to tell you that I think your OP is spot on and well written, Trailbrazer. I also think it's very thought-provoking.
     
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  12. Regiomontanus

    Regiomontanus retired astronomer

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    Umm, existence?

    Something rather than nothing?

    Count your blessings!
     
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  13. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Well of course you could have been there and looked right at Jesus in the face and eye to eye and not seen God as so many others did the same and they did not see God. But yet he is God. It took the eyes of revelation to see God. That means God only can show you who Jesus is.

    That is what a revelation is. It is something God showed you. Jesus says no one knows who the Son is but the Father and no one knows who the Father is but the Son and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

    So you can see God but not with these mortal eyes. You must see him with the eyes of revelation and by faith.
     
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  14. Kfox

    Kfox Well-Known Member

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    A very powerful scene of some people who also came up empty handed.

     
  15. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Thanks. I think it is high time that believers ask themselves why they love God, other than what the scriptures, not only of the Bible but of other Abrahamic religions, say we are 'supposed to do.'

    The reason I cannot love God has nothing to do with what the Old Testament says that God did, because I don't believe God 'necessarily' did any of those things. Rather, I believe they are stories men wrote about what God allegedly did. Thankfully, it is not a requirement of my religion for me to believe those stories are literally true.

    My issues with God are regarding what I stated in the OP, the suffering in the world, yours and mine and the suffering of so many other people; not only suffering at the hands of other people who neglect and abuse them, but suffering that happens to people due to accidents, injuries, diseases, and natural disasters.

    I have been watching a TV program on weather-related disasters today and I have to ask why? It is scientists and investigators who study these events in an effort to prevent future tragedies. It is the brave people who risk their lives to help other people. God is not doing anything at all so who should we love? Some people who survived 'believe' God saved them, but what about the other people who were seriously injured or died? We are supposed to 'believe' that the people who died are now in a 'better place.'

    Unlike my cohorts, I cannot write suffering off as something that is beneficial, and then judge people who do not seem to benefit from it. This is judgmental and I will have no part of such a belief. As such, I am kind of an outcast in my religion but I cannot be less than honest. Sure, maybe there is a benefit from suffering and it will accrue to us in the afterlife, but that is a day late and a dollar short as far as I am concerned. Now let the judgments begin. ;)
     
  16. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Maybe some of us did not want to exist.... ever think of that?

    And the reason we exists is not because of God, it is because our parents had sex.
     
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  17. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Those who saw Jesus saw a perfect mirror image of God's Attributes, they did not actually see God.

    Jesus was like a clear mirror, and God became visible in the mirror. This is why Jesus said, “The Father is in the Son” (John 14:11, John 17:21), meaning that God is visible and manifest in Jesus.

    “I and my Father are one” (John 10:30) means that Jesus and God are one and the same, so whatever pertains to Jesus, all His acts and doings, are identical with the Will of the Father. Jesus and God also share the same Holy Spirit, so in that sense they are one and the same. Jesus also shares the Attributes of God so in that sense they are one and the same. The verse below says that God was manifest in the flesh; it does not say that God incarnated in the flesh.

    1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
     
  18. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I have no idea why people believe that God did anything that is attributed to Him in the Old Testament given it was written by men who never received any communication from God. I guess they believe it because that is what they were taught to believe but it is not a requirement of my religion to believe it.
     
  19. Treasure Hunter

    Treasure Hunter Active Member

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    Whoever is kind of an outcast is to fully become an outcast, and one cannot become an outcast until the owner of the house casts out the one who extends their arms and says “Lord, Lord”. This one that needs to be cast out is the same one who still seeks belonging and the comfort of the group.

    In other words, one cannot fully become an outcast unless they are capable of casting out the dead weight.
     
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  20. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    You believe based on the wrong scriptures.
    God did not have to send Jesus to suffer and die.
    God showed His love for us by sending Jesus and now it seems the suffering and death of Jesus is all for nothing and we have to go back to keeping laws and to be good enough through that.
    Jesus suffered, God suffered and we all suffer along with you, and I hope I am not belittling your suffering by saying that.
    Suffering sucks.
     
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