Why should we love God?

[74x12]

Those who saw Jesus saw a perfect mirror image of God's Attributes, they did not actually see God.

Jesus was like a clear mirror, and God became visible in the mirror. This is why Jesus said, “The Father is in the Son” (John 14:11, John 17:21), meaning that God is visible and manifest in Jesus.

“I and my Father are one” (John 10:30) means that Jesus and God are one and the same, so whatever pertains to Jesus, all His acts and doings, are identical with the Will of the Father. Jesus and God also share the same Holy Spirit, so in that sense they are one and the same. Jesus also shares the Attributes of God so in that sense they are one and the same. The verse below says that God was manifest in the flesh; it does not say that God incarnated in the flesh.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

INC'ARNATE, verb transitive [Latin incarno; in and caro, flesh.]
To clothe with flesh; to embody in flesh.
INC'ARNATE, adjective Invested with flesh; embodied in flesh; a the incarnate Son of God.​

When I read "God was manifest in the flesh" to me it means incarnate. That God was dwelling in the flesh. I believe that means he is literally God in the flesh. It's called the hypostatic union.

hy·po·stat·ic un·ion
the combination of divine and human natures in the single person of Christ.​

According to John 1:14 the Word (which is God) literally became flesh. John 1:1 makes it clear that the Word was God. So God "became" flesh.

 

[firedragon]

The idea for this thread came from what I was discussing with @Truthseeker on another thread.

A verse in the Qur'an about a possible good outcome for people from all religions

Why is it always our fault if we don't love God enough? Why does that have to mean that we are in some way deficient? What did God ever do to prove His love to us? Oh, I know, He sent His only Son, but big deal. He did not lose His only Son because Jesus is with God in Heaven now.

God also sent other Messengers, but what did God do to sacrifice anything for us? Nothing. Sure, the Messengers of God sacrificed a lot, but they are not God.

Then there is all the suffering in the world that God created and God created a world in which He knew humans would suffer, and worse yet, some people suffer much more than others. Logically speaking, God is responsible for creating such a world so God is left holding the bag.

It even says that this world is a storehouse of suffering in the Baha’i Writings: Storehouse of Suffering quote

I do not understand why Baha’is cannot understand that God is responsible for this suffering since God created this world. Please note that I am not referring to the suffering the results from human free will choices, as I believe humans are responsible for that suffering, God is not responsible for it.

Please spare me the religious apologetic about how suffering is ‘good for us” and how we should be grateful to God for suffering, or how people really don’t have to suffer, implying that their suffering is all their fault because they cannot be more detached. Save this for another day. Nothing could be more insensitive to say to people who are suffering.

I am looking for a reason to love God, other than what the scriptures say about how good God is, and I am coming up empty-handed.

Maybe my downfall is that I am logical rather than just believing what I want to believe based upon scriptures.

This is called misotheism. Which means hating God. One of the most prominent reasons for the hatred of God stems from the topic called "problem of evil", and you have shown that very clearly above.

Though you say this is a logical conclusion, it is actually not logical. It is a symptom of suffering, either by ourselves, one of our loved ones or the world at large. Generally a logical premise by premise to Q proposition has to come within the theology itself, not externally. That means lets say "God says in book A that he will not allow any suffering, but in real life there is a lot of suffering, thus I hate God". That was an example.

It seems like you believe in God, as in God exists, but you hate God. That is a fundamental definition of misotheism. But it seems like you accept Gods existence out of no choice, but you also have no choice but to hate this existence. Its like a horn on your forehead. You hate it, but it exists.

This is not really a logical expression. It is called an appeal to emotion. I am not saying its invalid. I empathise with you. And I wish you and your family every happiness in the whole world.

Peace.

 

[Spirit of Light]

The idea for this thread came from what I was discussing with @Truthseeker on another thread.

A verse in the Qur'an about a possible good outcome for people from all religions

Why is it always our fault if we don't love God enough? Why does that have to mean that we are in some way deficient? What did God ever do to prove His love to us? Oh, I know, He sent His only Son, but big deal. He did not lose His only Son because Jesus is with God in Heaven now.

God also sent other Messengers, but what did God do to sacrifice anything for us? Nothing. Sure, the Messengers of God sacrificed a lot, but they are not God.

Then there is all the suffering in the world that God created and God created a world in which He knew humans would suffer, and worse yet, some people suffer much more than others. Logically speaking, God is responsible for creating such a world so God is left holding the bag.

It even says that this world is a storehouse of suffering in the Baha’i Writings: Storehouse of Suffering quote

I do not understand why Baha’is cannot understand that God is responsible for this suffering since God created this world. Please note that I am not referring to the suffering the results from human free will choices, as I believe humans are responsible for that suffering, God is not responsible for it.

Please spare me the religious apologetic about how suffering is ‘good for us” and how we should be grateful to God for suffering, or how people really don’t have to suffer, implying that their suffering is all their fault because they cannot be more detached. Save this for another day. Nothing could be more insensitive to say to people who are suffering.

I am looking for a reason to love God, other than what the scriptures say about how good God is, and I am coming up empty-handed.

Maybe my downfall is that I am logical rather than just believing what I want to believe based upon scriptures.

I am sorry to see you struggle to love God. But i do not think God is the problem in your life @Trailblazer.
I believe you have become your own worsed enemy. You want change in your life, but in the same time you are stuck in holding on to everything that keeping you from going forward.

Example could be, you need for exactly the same car as the last one, your attachments to your cats, and so on.
It seems like you have chosen to hold on to everything safe, but that lock you down and you can barly leave your house anymore because of "what if" or "I must have this or that"

Sorry to be brutally honest, and you are welcome to get mad at me for saying this. But you have to snap out of your comfort zone before your life ever will change to anything better than what you have now.

 

[Pudding]

The idea for this thread came from what I was discussing with @Truthseeker on another thread.

A verse in the Qur'an about a possible good outcome for people from all religions

Why is it always our fault if we don't love God enough? Why does that have to mean that we are in some way deficient? What did God ever do to prove His love to us? Oh, I know, He sent His only Son, but big deal. He did not lose His only Son because Jesus is with God in Heaven now.

God also sent other Messengers, but what did God do to sacrifice anything for us? Nothing. Sure, the Messengers of God sacrificed a lot, but they are not God.

Then there is all the suffering in the world that God created and God created a world in which He knew humans would suffer, and worse yet, some people suffer much more than others. Logically speaking, God is responsible for creating such a world so God is left holding the bag.

It even says that this world is a storehouse of suffering in the Baha’i Writings: Storehouse of Suffering quote

I do not understand why Baha’is cannot understand that God is responsible for this suffering since God created this world. Please note that I am not referring to the suffering the results from human free will choices, as I believe humans are responsible for that suffering, God is not responsible for it.

Please spare me the religious apologetic about how suffering is ‘good for us” and how we should be grateful to God for suffering, or how people really don’t have to suffer, implying that their suffering is all their fault because they cannot be more detached. Save this for another day. Nothing could be more insensitive to say to people who are suffering.

I am looking for a reason to love God, other than what the scriptures say about how good God is, and I am coming up empty-handed.

Maybe my downfall is that I am logical rather than just believing what I want to believe based upon scriptures.

The "they" below, i'm referring to some specific religions which meet the corresponding criteria.

The reason why it's your fault, might be...

If it's not your fault, then how can they sell you their snake oil？
If they can't sell you their snake oil, then how can they profit?
If they don't profit, then how can they have enough money in their wallet?
If they don't have enough money in their wallet, then how can they satisfy?

If you don't love God enough, then how can you obey whatever they say whatever a book says whatever God says whatever you must obey？
If you don't obey whatever they say whatever a book says whatever God says whatever you must obey, then how can they make you their slave?
If everyone don't become their slaves, then how can they become the king of this world?
If they're not the king of this world, then how can they satisfy?

Or maybe some of us love God or think we should love God, because in the past some dictators use violence to force everyone to love God in a lot of countries. After generations of generations of indoctrinating, the activities to love God becomes a tradition.

If instead those dictators force everyone to love Unicorn, the horror, we might be end up loving Unicorn instead of God.

Then the question will be why should we love Unicorn?

If we don't love their respective religion's version of Unicorn, then how do we become their slaves?
If we don't become their slaves, then how can they become the king of this world?
If they're not the king of this world, then how can they satisfy?

If it's not our fault, then how can they sell us their unicorn oil？
If they can't sell us their unicorn oil, then how can they profit?

 

[sun rise]

Forgive me if I am being slow, but is there a point to the story?
God has few friends?

Your comment "What did God ever do to prove His love to us?" to me is similar to St. Teresa's complaint to God about how he treats people. In the story, God's reply about treating his friends (lovers) badly and her sarcastic reply seemed to me not dissimilar to what you've written about.

 

[Truthseeker]

I do not understand why Baha’is cannot understand that God is responsible for this suffering since God created this world. Please note that I am not referring to the suffering the results from human free will choices, as I believe humans are responsible for that suffering, God is not responsible for it.

I understand that God is responsible for suffering since God created this world.

The suffering from diseases, natural disasters, etc. creates concern for others. That is what I see as a benefit. You are right now showing concern for the suffering in the world. That is a good attribute to have. You have concern for Lewis. You told me that today.

 

[Trailblazer]

You believe based on the wrong scriptures.
God did not have to send Jesus to suffer and die.
God showed His love for us by sending Jesus and now it seems the suffering and death of Jesus is all for nothing and we have to go back to keeping laws and to be good enough through that.
Jesus suffered, God suffered and we all suffer along with you, and I hope I am not belittling your suffering by saying that.
Suffering sucks.

It does not matter which scriptures I look at, God is the same...
God showed His love for us by sending Jesus is also what Baha'is believe.
Baha'u'llah also wrote that God created us out of His love for us, but so what?

Jesus suffered but I do not believe that God can suffer...
God created a world where He knew humans and animals would suffer, that is my issue.
I cannot love such a God.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The idea for this thread came from what I was discussing with @Truthseeker on another thread.

A verse in the Qur'an about a possible good outcome for people from all religions

Why is it always our fault if we don't love God enough? Why does that have to mean that we are in some way deficient? What did God ever do to prove His love to us? Oh, I know, He sent His only Son, but big deal. He did not lose His only Son because Jesus is with God in Heaven now.

God also sent other Messengers, but what did God do to sacrifice anything for us? Nothing. Sure, the Messengers of God sacrificed a lot, but they are not God.

Then there is all the suffering in the world that God created and God created a world in which He knew humans would suffer, and worse yet, some people suffer much more than others. Logically speaking, God is responsible for creating such a world so God is left holding the bag.

It even says that this world is a storehouse of suffering in the Baha’i Writings: Storehouse of Suffering quote

I do not understand why Baha’is cannot understand that God is responsible for this suffering since God created this world. Please note that I am not referring to the suffering the results from human free will choices, as I believe humans are responsible for that suffering, God is not responsible for it.

Please spare me the religious apologetic about how suffering is ‘good for us” and how we should be grateful to God for suffering, or how people really don’t have to suffer, implying that their suffering is all their fault because they cannot be more detached. Save this for another day. Nothing could be more insensitive to say to people who are suffering.

I am looking for a reason to love God, other than what the scriptures say about how good God is, and I am coming up empty-handed.

Maybe my downfall is that I am logical rather than just believing what I want to believe based upon scriptures.

I love God because He is more dependable than any fickle human being. When you hit rock bottom, He's the only one there and the greatest help.

 

[Trailblazer]

INC'ARNATE, verb transitive [Latin incarno; in and caro, flesh.]
To clothe with flesh; to embody in flesh.
INC'ARNATE, adjective Invested with flesh; embodied in flesh; a the incarnate Son of God.​

When I read "God was manifest in the flesh" to me it means incarnate. That God was dwelling in the flesh. I believe that means he is literally God in the flesh. It's called the hypostatic union.

The difference between an incarnation of God and a Manifestation of God is explained in this article:

“The Christian equivalent to the Bahá'í concept of Manifestation is the concept of incarnation. The word to incarnate means 'to embody in flesh or 'to assume, or exist in, a bodily (esp. a human) form (Oxford English Dictionary). From a Bahá'í point of view, the important question regarding the subject of incarnation is, what does Jesus incarnate? Bahá'ís can certainly say that Jesus incarnated Gods attributes, in the sense that in Jesus, Gods attributes were perfectly reflected and expressed.[4] The Bahá'í scriptures, however, reject the belief that the ineffable essence of the Divinity was ever perfectly and completely contained in a single human body, because the Bahá'í scriptures emphasize the omnipresence and transcendence of the essence of God…

To continue reading:
Jesus Christ in the Bahá'í Writings

hy·po·stat·ic un·ion
the combination of divine and human natures in the single person of Christ.

That is what I believe, that Jesus has a twofold nature, a divine nature and a human nature:

“Unto this subtle, this mysterious and ethereal Being He hath assigned a twofold nature; the physical, pertaining to the world of matter, and the spiritual, which is born of the substance of God Himself. He hath, moreover, conferred upon Him a double station. The first station, which is related to His innermost reality, representeth Him as One Whose voice is the voice of God Himself.…. The second station is the human station, exemplified by the following verses: “I am but a man like you.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 66-67

According to John 1:14 the Word (which is God) literally became flesh. John 1:1 makes it clear that the Word was God. So God "became" flesh.

John 1 King James Version (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

I believe that those verses are about God, not about Jesus. All things were made by God since God created the heavens and the earth.

The Word refers to the divine perfections that appeared in Jesus Christ, and these perfections were with God. The Word does not mean the body of Jesus but rather the divine perfections manifested in Jesus. Jesus was like a clear mirror and the divine perfections were visible and apparent in this mirror. Therefore, the Word was the divine appearance. This is the meaning of the verse which says: “The Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

When God sent Jesus, God was “manifested” in the flesh and Jesus dwelt among us. God did not become flesh, but rather the divine perfections of God were manifested in Jesus who came in the flesh and revealed the Word of God to humanity.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

 

[stvdv]

I am looking for a reason to love God,

Why should we love God?

You don't say:
"Why we should love God"...that's a good start, so
"Why should we love God"

God never said "We should love God" in what I read, but...

So, you look for a reason to love God?

I just try to understand, so correct me if I'm wrong:
1) You don't feel love for God, I guess, else you won't ask
2) You wonder if you should love God
3) You wonder why you should (is there a reason to love God)
4) You like to know the 'trick' to feel love for God

Right?

 

[Trailblazer]

This is called misotheism. Which means hating God. One of the most prominent reasons for the hatred of God stems from the topic called "problem of evil", and you have shown that very clearly above.

Though you say this is a logical conclusion, it is actually not logical. It is a symptom of suffering, either by ourselves, one of our loved ones or the world at large. Generally a logical premise by premise to Q proposition has to come within the theology itself, not externally. That means lets say "God says in book A that he will not allow any suffering, but in real life there is a lot of suffering, thus I hate God". That was an example.

It seems like you believe in God, as in God exists, but you hate God. That is a fundamental definition of misotheism. But it seems like you accept Gods existence out of no choice, but you also have no choice but to hate this existence. Its like a horn on your forehead. You hate it, but it exists.

This is not really a logical expression. It is called an appeal to emotion. I am not saying its invalid. I empathise with you. And I wish you and your family every happiness in the whole world.

Peace.

No, I do not hate God, I just do not love God. I used to hate God but that was a long time ago, when I was emotional about my own suffering. Now I just have no feelings for God -- no hate, no love, just indifference. I cannot force myself to love a being I do not love. I have to have a reason to love God, as I said in the OP, and I don't see a reason.

As I said: "I am looking for a reason to love God, other than what the scriptures say about how good God is, and I am coming up empty-handed."

I am sure that believers who love God have a reason, but I do not share their sentiments.

 

[Trailblazer]

I am sorry to see you struggle to love God. But i do not think God is the problem in your life @Trailblazer.
I believe you have become your own worsed enemy. You want change in your life, but in the same time you are stuck in holding on to everything that keeping you from going forward.

Example could be, you need for exactly the same car as the last one, your attachments to your cats, and so on.
It seems like you have chosen to hold on to everything safe, but that lock you down and you can barly leave your house anymore because of "what if" or "I must have this or that"

Sorry to be brutally honest, and you are welcome to get mad at me for saying this. But you have to snap out of your comfort zone before your life ever will change to anything better than what you have now.

Sorry, but that is not it at all...
I might want to change my life but I cannot change it because my life revolves around my husband and the cats that I love, and I cannot abandon them.
Love and caring is not attachment. It is love and caring.
And this is what I hate about religious beliefs, they always lead to judging people.

So what if I want the same kind of car? That is a practical thing because I know that kind of car is very reliable and cost nothing to maintain.

Keeping me from going forward to where? Maybe you have moved forward but I am not you and I have a completely different life.

I have moved forward quite a bit in the last nine years in my spiritual life but my lifestyle cannot be changed even if I want to change it. It is much more complicated than you know.

 

[Trailblazer]

Your comment "What did God ever do to prove His love to us?" to me is similar to St. Teresa's complaint to God about how he treats people. In the story, God's reply about treating his friends (lovers) badly and her sarcastic reply seemed to me not dissimilar to what you've written about.

This is not about me or my suffering. It is about all the suffering in the world.
How does God treat people? I go by what I see, not by what I read in scriptures.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Sorry, but that is not it at all...
I might want to change my life but I cannot change it because my life revolves around my husband and the cats that I love, and I cannot abandon them.
Love and caring is not attachment. It is love and caring.
And this is what I hate about religious beliefs, they always lead to judging people.

So what if I want the same kind of car? That is a practical thing because I know that kind of car is very reliable and cost nothing to maintain.

Keeping me from going forward to where? Maybe you have moved forward but I am not you and I have a completely different life.

I have moved forward quite a bit in the last nine years in my spiritual life but my lifestyle cannot be changed even if I want to change it. It is much more complicated than you know.

View attachment 62149

You can change anything you want in your life, it is all within you.

Blaming God because your current situation sucks is not why God is waiting for you to come back.

Of course you can leave your situation, if your husband is the one holding you back, you can move to a different place ( dont need to divorce to live different place)
Your cats in the worsed situation could be replaced, in the best situation you could keep a few of them.

Dont you see that having to much attachments in your life to your current situation is what stopping you from having a better life?

To me it sound like you holding on to too many things in life.

 

[RestlessSoul]

It does not matter which scriptures I look at, God is the same...
God showed His love for us by sending Jesus is also what Baha'is believe.
Baha'u'llah also wrote that God created us out of His love for us, but so what?

Jesus suffered but I do not believe that God can suffer...
God created a world where He knew humans and animals would suffer, that is my issue.
I cannot love such a God.

Could there be any joy without suffering? Any pleasure without pain, or laughter without tears? I don’t know why our lives are like this, they just are.

Remember that the coldest hour is the one before the dawn; and perhaps it doesn’t matter whether you love God, so much as whether God loves you, which I absolutely believe he does, since God is Love and you are one of his children. So keep putting one foot in front of the other, ask for His strength and guidance, and if the burdens of your life seem to much to bear, offer them to God and He will bear them with you.

 

[Trailblazer]

I understand that God is responsible for suffering since God created this world.

The suffering from diseases, natural disasters, etc. creates concern for others. That is what I see as a benefit. You are right now showing concern for the suffering in the world. That is a good attribute to have. You have concern for Lewis. You told me that today.

Thanks Duane. You are a good example of how a Baha'i should be.

When I say I do not love God I think some people beat me down because how I feel about God raises some insecurity in them. Maybe they have some of the same feelings but they cannot admit it. Maybe they have this idea of the perfect God that they don't want anyone challenging because that would reap havoc with the beliefs they have built their lives around.

Maybe the suffering has benefits but there is another side to it. No believers seem to be able to understand that, only nonbelievers understand it.

 

[Trailblazer]

I love God because He is more dependable than any fickle human being. When you hit rock bottom, He's the only one there and the greatest help.

I am glad for you that you feel that way and find comfort in it.
God is where? I don't see God anywhere.
I believe that God exists but I don't believe all the rest of what Christians and Baha'is believe about God, the personal God.

 

[Trailblazer]

God never said "We should love God" in what I read, but...

It is in what I read:

5: O SON OF BEING! Love Me, that I may love thee. If thou lovest Me not, My love can in no wise reach thee. Know this, O servant.
The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 4

So, you look for a reason to love God?

I just try to understand, so correct me if I'm wrong:
1) You don't feel love for God, I guess, else you won't ask
2) You wonder if you should love God
3) You wonder why you should (is there a reason to love God)
4) You like to know the 'trick' to feel love for God

Right?

1-3 are pretty accurate, although I am not sure about 4) because I don't know if I want to love God, not unless there is a reason to do so. If the only reason to love God is to get God's love for myself, that is not a reason because I do not need God's love and I don't even want it. I cannot tell you exactly why I feel that way, but try to think about it this way: Why do people want and need God's love? What is the reason? It sounds selfish to me.

I would rather love than be loved, but God does not need my love because God has no needs, so why should I love God? Moreover, if God is so petty that I have to love Him in order for Him to love me, I have no interest in such a God.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I am glad for you that you feel that way and find comfort in it.
God is where? I don't see God anywhere.
I believe that God exists but I don't believe all the rest of what Christians and Baha'is believe about God, the personal God.

Maybe you haven't hit rock bottom yet. Some people have nothing and no one in this world. Where else do they turn?

 

[Spirit of Light]

@Trailblazer

You asking for advice or maybe you just rating...i don't know.

But what is clear is. YOU dont listen to anything others say. Do you find it strange your life sucks if you cant take advice and use it to benefit your self?