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Featured Why Should I Believe The Bible?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by tosca1, May 21, 2019.

  1. tosca1

    tosca1 Member

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    NOTE: The discussion in this thread will be based on the video that will be shown below.


    This video addresses the arguments usually given by non-believers. It's only about 15 minutes long.

    For those who want to discuss, please watch and we'll discuss the points given in this video on why we should trust the Bible.



    Honesty test.

    Telephone Test.

    Corroboration test.



     
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  2. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    A somewhat circular argument ....
    "The Bible is true because The Bible says it is", type of argument
     
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  3. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the post. IMV, certainly compelling points.

    But I remember that even when Jesus was raised from the dead and the tomb was empty, people still rejected him. Sometimes, even with the compelling points, free will still has a part.

    Loving someone can never be forced, it is a choice. Maybe that is why Jesus concentrated so much on love?
     
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  4. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    As I listened to the video, I don't think that point was ever mentioned. Au contraire, it addresses that issue when he talks about why we accept documents about Ceasar and that we should apply the same value to the compiled books called Biblia.

    Edited
     
    #4 KenS, May 21, 2019
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
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  5. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    Not directly but it quoted many verses from the Bible as evidence.
     
  6. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    I think it quoted for statement sake, not for "It's true because it says it's true".
     
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  7. tosca1

    tosca1 Member

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    Well....that's not it at all!. Are you sure you're watching the actual video given above?
     
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  8. tosca1

    tosca1 Member

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    Lol. Why wouldn't it quote relevant verses from the Bible?
    Read the TITLE of this topic!

    Logical arguments are being presented to you in that video.
     
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  9. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    That and the video is the givin premise for which many valid arguments that lie outside the video topic itself are omitted.

    Limiting this argument to just the video is telling and further discredits the Bible as a believable. Not that it had much credit to begin with mind you.
     
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  10. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure I can follow that logic. I don't even see where the OP says that that comments are limited to the video... rather simply "why wouldn't they quote the bible".

    Did I miss something in my reading?
     
    #10 KenS, May 21, 2019
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
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  11. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    Its a mythological story about good and evil, nothing more then that.
     
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  12. usfan

    usfan Well-Known Member

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    I would expand this question, to include all of our epistemology:

    Why should we believe anything?

    By what process do we differentiate between Truth and deception?

    Why should Miss Starky's kindergarten instruction be more credible than some movie, or tv announcer, or politician?

    Why is the bible subject to derision and skepticism, and all other propaganda sources believed without question?

    :shrug:
     
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  13. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    Honesty Test

    If you have half a brain and wish people to believe you, then you are critical of yourself.
    That's why nobody believes Trump.
     
  14. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member

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    I generally don’t like videos for this kind of thing. They make it very easy to brush over weak arguments and make logical leaps without giving the viewer time to stop and think about them. I gave it a short though;

    Around 1:50, he threw out a thinly veiled Pascal’s Wager, though he didn’t go in to it, presumably because he’s smart enough to know it’s fundamentally flawed. A bad start.

    Around 2:50, he made some assertions about who wrote the books of the Bible without addressing any of the questions of their authorship. He’s also glossing over how the Bible was compiled and all of the books which weren’t included (though to be fair, that would make a much longer video).

    From around 4:30, he applies the assumption that because the books of the NT say they were written by eyewitnesses, that must be true. He goes on to apply the assumption that because they say the NT is inspired by God, that must be true too. This seems to be a core basis to everything else he says but are obviously flawed assumptions.

    Beyond that flaw, the Honesty Test is somewhat contradicted if they weren’t writing in their own interests rather than promoting their faith. It doesn’t prove their honesty as much as their desire to promote their faith by definition. If they were really committed, couldn’t they be tempted to embellish the truth for the greater story? It’s also worth noting that they obviously couldn’t know they would be executed when they were writing.

    I’d also expect that if someone was writing about their own errors, they’d at least include some level of explanation or justification for why they acted in the way they did but as far as I’m aware, there is little of that in the Bible. I’m not convinced someone coldly reporting their own mistakes without commentary is any more believable than them not reporting their mistakes at all.

    With The Telephone Test, he clearly cherry picks some extreme examples of other historical documents with long gaps, exaggerates how much credence the details in those documents alone are given and glosses over the claims of the NT to just being about the existence of Jesus the man, in contrast to the existence of the likes of (Julius) Cesar and Alexander the Great. He makes a huge thing about the raw number of manuscripts but doesn’t cover how many are duplicates and doesn’t mention how fragmentary many of those early manuscripts actually are. I’d also question the “50 year” gap he quotes for the earliest NT manuscripts which makes me wonder about the other numbers he quotes that I have no idea about (he, of course, givens no references for any of his factual assertions).

    The Corroboration Test takes non-Biblical evidence of the existence of Jesus but goes on to claim that those non-Biblical sources include entire story, including all of the miracles and his actual divinity. That is an outright lie. Notice how quickly he rushes on from that point. He knows what he did.

    Around 13:00 he repeats a strawman he opened with about all the people who call the Bible “crazy”, as if that is the sole or primary objection to the claims he is actually supporting.

    There rest just seems to be empty preaching and a summary.

    I also find it interesting that he opens by talking about the OT and the NT yet only delves in the legitimacy of the NT.

    And that is why I don’t like videos for this kind of thing. :cool:
     
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  15. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    The reason we believe some things and not others is evidence.
    I think Truth and Deception are two extremes; I don't think the Bible is deception and there are truths within it but there is also a lot of falsehoods.
    Science doesn't claim to be true; it only claims to be the best explanation, currently, as it may be refined or changed.

    The Bible is subject to derision and skepticism because whole ways of life are based on it. Policy decisions are founded in interpretation of it (abortion is one good example); it sets itself up to be so great that's why people take pleasure in showing why it isn't.
     
  16. tosca1

    tosca1 Member

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    Can't you put it on pause.....and think about the logic behind it? You can even verify them, do some cross-referencing or anything else that we do when we're doing research.

    I'll read the rest of your post, and double check the issues you mentioned. Give me time though.....I'm actually multi-tasking here. I'll be leaving the building too for a while.
     
  17. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member

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    You can (and I did) but it’s a hassle, especially when the video is made without that in mind (dare I suggest, specifically to discourage it). You end up going back and forth to pick up the flow and it’s harder to find what has been said earlier. There is also the key factor that a written piece naturally lends itself to and encourages quality referencing which videos tend not to.
     
  18. lukethethird

    lukethethird Well-Known Member

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    Nothing but logical fallacies were presented in that video, a complete waste of time.
     
  19. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    I'm about half way into the video, and these arguments are very sound.
     
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  20. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Not just you, i must have missed it too.
     
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